Oblivion has been Re-rated "M"!

[Kale]

Hey all:

Take-Two Interactive may not have a follow-up for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas yet, but it appears the publisher does have a pseudo-sequel to that game's Hot Coffee scandal on its hands.

The Entertainment Software Ratings Board today issued a parental advisory that it has changed the rating of Take-Two subsidiary 2K Games' hit role-playing game The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for the PC and the Xbox 360. (Inital reports indicated that only the PC version of the game had been re-rated.) Originally released with a rating of T for Teen, the game has now been rerated M for Mature, due to "more detailed depictions of blood and gore than were considered in the original rating, as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third-party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters."

Before the game was rerated, Pete Hines of Oblivion developer Bethesda Softworks discussed the mod with GameSpot. "Obviously we have a pretty big, and active, mod community for the PC version, and there are some gamers who hacked into Oblivion's art archive files and modified them to create a nude upper female torso in the game," Hines said. "We can't control and don't condone the actions of anyone who alters the game so that it displays material that may be considered offensive. We haven't received any complaints on the issue from anyone."

The ESRB is adding a "nudity" content descriptor to the PC version of the game "until it can be re-mastered and released with the topless skin removed."

[UPDATE]: As for how Oblivion escaped the ratings process with an improper rating the first time around, the ESRB pointed the finger at Bethesda. When a company submits a game to be rated, it is required to provide the ESRB with a video tape "showing the most extreme content and an accurate representation of the context and product as a whole."

After discovering the issues in "post-release monitoring and play-testing," the ESRB initiated a review of the game's original ratings process. The board cross-examined the tape Bethesda submitted with video taken from the final release of the game, and ultimately determined that the developer understated the detail and intensity of the blood and gore in the game. In reference to the nude skin, which is inaccessible during normal play and so couldn't have been included in the taped submission, the ESRB said publishers are required "to disclose locked-out content during the rating process if it is pertinent to a rating," and that Bethesda failed to do so.

As a result, the ESRB said a number of corrective actions are being taken regarding the matter. Bethesda will notify retailers of the rating change, provide stores and distributors with M-rating stickers for all unsold copies of the game, and preparing new packaging with the proper rating and content descriptors for future copies of the game. Bethesda will also prepare a downloadable patch to modify the game's art archive and make the topless skin inaccessible, even on a modded PC version of the game.

Shortly after the ESRB parental advisory was issued, Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association president Hal Halpin sent out his own statement about the re-rating. Halpin called the resulting change in sales policy for the game "immediate," and said a number of major retailers had already changed their systems so cashiers would be prompted to ask for ID when copies of Oblivion were scanned.

"Of note in this matter is the speed at which retailers reacted and parents were empowered," Halpin said. "Ultimately that is what makes any ratings system effective in the end."

A Take-Two representative deferred GameSpot's questions regarding the matter to Bethesda, but did say that the company doesn't expect the re-rating to have a financial impact on its operations.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148897.html


Hidden *snipped*, take two!

Seriously, this is a sickening trend... Next thing ya know, you'll have nekkid Twi-Lekks hidden in SW:G...

What is wrong with developers these days?

MOD EDIT: I think we already know what's hidden. No need to use nicknames like that for it.

[Arnobius]

I suspect some of them might do it as a joke that they don't expect to see light. Problem is with all of those people who hack into games (on PC at least), they're getting easier to find these supposedly hidden things.

If they're not careful they might bring around government mandated controls

(and incidently, I'm only talking about things part of the game itself and not mods for it... Kotor has mods for lingerie and worse, but since those are made by people not at all involved with the game, I don't see Lucas Arts and Bioware as being responsible)

[Link Antilles]

About time, if the ESRB wants to be consistent, I was confused on why Oblivion didn't receive an M-rating in the first place.

The hell-like plain of Oblivion wasn't exactly a nice place with all those the tortured bodies, etc. Not to mention, those zombie and the amount of blood during a battle.

This kinda' reminds me of when Dungeon Siege's rating went to M.

[GrubbTheFragger]

i figured it would have to be re-rated because like link said the tortured bodies are pretty nasty and plus the Zombies are pretty nasty also. I recall this happening with the original halo also

[Rexman64]

Bethesda speaks!

Earlier today, the Entertainment Software Ratings Board announced that it had re-rated The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for the PC and Xbox 360 as M for Mature. The ESRB said the game's developer, Bethesda Softworks, had failed to properly report the game's objectionable content when it submitted the game for rating.

Bethesda has now responded to the situation, issuing the following statement:

The ESRB has revoked their Teen rating for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for the PC and the Xbox 360 and has assigned the game a new rating of Mature. The ESRB reports that this is due to content in the game that was not fully disclosed when rating the game initially. Bethesda, not its co-publisher, developed the game, handled the ratings application before the ESRB, and stands behind it.

Bethesda will promptly implement the ratings change that the ESRB has ordered for Oblivion. We will not contest the ESRB's decision to re-rate the game as Mature, nor will we change the game's content to keep a Teen rating. We believe that this critically acclaimed game is not typical of Mature rated titles, and does not present the central themes of violence that are common to those products.

Bethesda will work with its co-publisher to place new "M" rating stickers on Oblivion packaging now at retail and in warehouses, and will reflect the change in rating on newly manufactured product. No product recall is being directed.

In light of the public comments that are being made about this matter, and to respond to questions we are being asked, we are releasing this statement to be on record about the circumstances giving rise to Oblivion's change in rating.

Bethesda Softworks made what it believes was a full, accurate, and comprehensive submission on Oblivion to the ESRB months before the game's release. Bethesda used the ESRB's application forms and believes it adhered closely to their requirements. Nothing was hidden from the ratings agency. No effort was made by Bethesda to lobby or influence the agency for any particular rating.

The ESRB has concluded that the game deserves a rating of Mature because: 1) partial nudity in the PC version of the game can be created by modders; and 2) the game contains excessive blood and gore that go beyond a Teen rating. The facts are as follows:

There is no nudity in Oblivion without a third party modification. In the PC version of the game only - this doesn't apply to the Xbox 360 version - some modders have used a third party tool to hack into and modify an art archive file to make it possible to create a mesh for a partially nude (topless) female that they add into the game. Bethesda didn't create a game with nudity and does not intend that nudity appear in Oblivion. There is no nude female character in a section of the game that can be "unlocked." Bethesda can not control tampering with Oblivion by third parties. Bethesda is taking steps to ensure that modders can not continue to hack into Oblivion's art archives to create partially nude figures.

With regard to violence, Bethesda advised the ESRB during the ratings process that violence and blood effects were "frequent" in the game - checking the box on the form that is the maximum warning. We further advised that the game contained occasional torture, vulgar acts, and gore. We gave accurate answers and descriptions about the type and frequency of violence that appears in the game. We submitted a 60-page document listing the explicit language, acts, and scenes in the game. Oblivion packaging already contains warnings for "Violence" and "Blood and Gore."

We value the role of the ESRB and believe the rating agency plays a valuable role in regulating our industry. As always, we will continue work in good faith to comply fully with the ESRB's standards and policies.

We remain enormously proud of Oblivion and the standard of excellence in game development it represents. Oblivion is one of the highest rated games of all time and one of the most popular games available on the Xbox 360 and the PC. We greatly appreciate the understanding and support of our fans.

[Arnobius]

I don't buy their excuse. I mean like I said earlier you can find some pretty crass Kotor mods out there including "partial nudes", but the ESRB hasn't changed the rating to M there. So it seems improbable to me that the rating change was based on a third person mod.

From time to time I have used mods (though not the crass ones) on different games to increase replay value after solving the original. It's basically a matter of dropping a file in a certain folder. So if Bethesda wants to declare their innocence, a simple list of files found on the disc in the folder where the so-called mod was found should be enough to spot any foreign material. Anybody with a copy of the game could verify this.

[Link Antilles]

You want to know what the real reason is? Horse Armor.

<.<

>.>

The overpriced content is hurting the children! Oh noes!


My apologies, folks, I couldn't resist the urge to take another jab at the Horse Armor. Anyways, yeah, their response is just your basic PR damage control… like their response about the Horse Armor and “testing the waterâ€

[Arnobius]

Bethesda didn't create a game with nudity and does not intend that nudity appear in Oblivion. There is no nude female character in a section of the game that can be "unlocked."

Probable Translation: @#$%! How did those little punks unlock it? We didn't think they could unlock it and never intended the nudity to be seen!

[Kale]

[quote="Link Antilles"]You want to know what the real reason is? Horse Armor.

<.<

>.>

The overpriced content is hurting the children! Oh noes!


My apologies, folks, I couldn't resist the urge to take another jab at the Horse Armor. ]


Watch out next week! Horse jubblies!

For only 2.50$ (And a modder) you two can have a jubblified horse!


(Im thinking of VGcats' take on the "Hot Coffee" mod xD)

[Rexman64]

The most accurate way I've heard Bethesda's statement described is "the nicest possible way to call the ESRB a collective group of idiots." And I do smell a bit (read: a truckload) of spin in the company's words.

Looking at some of the darker parts of the game, the M rating may be justified. But it just seems silly to me to rate the game based on things that can only be accessed with a mod. Yes, the skin shouldn't have been there to begin with. Yes, Bethesda was stupid for not deleting that file before the disk went gold, especially after "Hot Coffee". But it still wasn't in the actual game.

Actually, it seems silly to me to re-rate a game at all. I mean, the MPAA wouldn't pull a movie from the theaters saying: "the blood and gore is more prevalent than we had originally been aware of". If the game justified a M rating, it should have been given that rating to begin with, not after it's sold 2,000,000 copies.

After reading the thoughts of some others, a small, very cynical part of me wants to believe that this is just the ESRB shouting to the government "Hey, look! We can be effective! Look at us and our immediate, forceful action!"

[Arnobius]

The most accurate way I've heard Bethesda's statement described is "the nicest possible way to call the ESRB a collective group of idiots." And I do smell a bit (read: a truckload) of spin in the company's words.

Looking at some of the darker parts of the game, the M rating may be justified. But it just seems silly to me to rate the game based on things that can only be accessed with a mod. Yes, the skin shouldn't have been there to begin with. Yes, Bethesda was stupid for not deleting that file before the disk went gold, especially after "Hot Coffee". But it still wasn't in the actual game.

Actually, it seems silly to me to re-rate a game at all. I mean, the MPAA wouldn't pull a movie from the theaters saying: "the blood and gore is more prevalent than we had originally been aware of". If the game justified a M rating, it should have been given that rating to begin with, not after it's sold 2,000,000 copies.

After reading the thoughts of some others, a small, very cynical part of me wants to believe that this is just the ESRB shouting to the government "Hey, look! We can be effective! Look at us and our immediate, forceful action!"

I disagree. They should be held responsible for anything that goes out on the disc, whether it is in game or whether only a mod can access it. If it's on the disc, then someone will eventually access it and with the internet, soon everyone will have the opportunity. Claiming they're not responsible for a mod that can unlock content inappropriate for the game is simple irresponsibility, if that inappropriate content is on the disc to begin with.

The movie analogy doesn't work. Movies are viewed in their entirety before being rated, while the ERSB acts on what is submitted to them. Perhaps they should review the entire game first, and if companies decide they can put this hidden stuff in the games, they may decide they have to. Then it will take years to rate a game ("Blast! I keep dying on this part!")

[Rexman64]

I disagree. They should be held responsible for anything that goes out on the disc, whether it is in game or whether only a mod can access it. If it's on the disc, then someone will eventually access it and with the internet, soon everyone will have the opportunity. Claiming they're not responsible for a mod that can unlock content inappropriate for the game is simple irresponsibility, if that inappropriate content is on the disc to begin with.

Well, then you have to ask: just how far do you go? Does the ratings board have to hire someone to look through the code line-by-line, looking for language in the programmer comments?

[quote="AnimeHeretic"]The movie analogy doesn't work. Movies are viewed in their entirety before being rated, while the ERSB acts on what is submitted to them. Perhaps they should review the entire game first, and if companies decide they can put this hidden stuff in the games, they may decide they have to. Then it will take years to rate a game ("Blast! I keep dying on this part!") ]
I would agree, but I think that the whole blood and violence issue was just used as justification (not as the cause) for the re-rate. If what Bethesda is saying is even half-true (which may, of course, be a strectch ) then a "60 page document" detailing "frequent violence" and "occassional torture, vulgar acts and gore" should have been enough to drive the rating home. (Even though I'm still trying to figure out what "occasional" torture is... )

Relying on the developers to provide all the information is a somewhat flawed system, but I suppose it's the only one that would work at all. Heh, I can just imagine the nightmares of doing a full review of the content in a game like Oblivion. "What's happens if you fail in this quest?" "What does she say if you pick her pocket?" "What's behind that rock?"

[Arnobius]

[quote="Rexman64"]Well, then you have to ask: just how far do you go? Does the ratings board have to hire someone to look through the code line-by-line, looking for language in the programmer comments?


I would agree, but I think that the whole blood and violence issue was just used as justification (not as the cause) for the re-rate. If what Bethesda is saying is even half-true (which may, of course, be a strectch ) then a "60 page document" detailing "frequent violence" and "occassional torture, vulgar acts and gore" should have been enough to drive the rating home. (Even though I'm still trying to figure out what "occasional" torture is... ]
the question is not how far does the ERSB go, but how far do irresponsible companies require us to go in checking content. The fact is they shipped this file out on a game rated T. After "Hot Coffee" did they really think nobody would find this and unlock it? If companies think they can put this content on as a secret joke, they will probably cause stricter rating standards and more strict inspection standards.

[Rexman64]

the question is not how far does the ERSB go, but how far do irresponsible companies require us to go in checking content. The fact is they shipped this file out on a game rated T. After "Hot Coffee" did they really think nobody would find this and unlock it? If companies think they can put this content on as a secret joke, they will probably cause stricter rating standards and more strict inspection standards.

I agree that it was a major blunder on Bethesda's part. I just think that the whole thing was overreacted to.

[Arnobius]

I agree that it was a major blunder on Bethesda's part. I just think that the whole thing was overreacted to.

It could be... if they had declared to the ERSB that the nudity was on there, probably people would have just shaken their heads at how decadent videogames were getting but not caused an outcry unless it was being sold to kids.

Hopefully after this and the Hot Coffee scandals, the gamemakers will realize that these hidden locked files will be found and unlocked eventually and make sure they are removed before the product is shipped.

[Tommy]

I heard this gamem ight be released on the pS2 with obviously worse graphics. Think that will keep the M sticker?

[GrubbTheFragger]

I heard this gamem ight be released on the pS2 with obviously worse graphics. Think that will keep the M sticker?

i really hope i doesn't come out on ps2 that would be sad. And if it does yes it will most likely keep the M-rating that it should have had from the beginning(or at least i think i shoulda gotten a M rating from the beginning)

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I haven't played Oblivion, but an 'M' rating here in Australia is 15 years and above. Whereas Dungeon Siege is strictly 15 and above (MA). A bit high if you ask me (equal rating in comparison to your more graphic 'R' rating).

[Bobtheduck]

[quote="Rexman64"]I would agree, but I think that the whole blood and violence issue was just used as justification (not as the cause) for the re-rate. If what Bethesda is saying is even half-true (which may, of course, be a strectch ) then a "60 page document" detailing "frequent violence" and "occassional torture, vulgar acts and gore" should have been enough to drive the rating home. (Even though I'm still trying to figure out what "occasional" torture is... ]

Hmm... All we need do is look at Metal Gear Solid (PS1, not the remake on Gamecube) It didn't take much for that to get an M rating... The language was tame compared to Final Fantasy 7, there wasn't a whole lot of blood in it (bodies even disappeared when they were killed, except in certain cinema scenes, like the ninja scene which was still drastically tamer than the remake) there were two moments of gore (ocelot's arm, and Grey Fox at the end) and one torture scene (which would be Snake...) Oh, and Meryl saying [spoiler]make love to me[/spoiler] and being in two scenes in her underwear. That's what earned it the "mature sexual situations" rating... Although it was suggested that [spoiler]Ocelot may have raped her[/spoiler] unless Konami specifically pointed that out to the ESRB they wouldn't have likely picked up on it, because I didn't realize it for years... Still, with the exception of the two scenes of Gore, Final Fantasy 7 had worse stuff than all of that and MGS got an M rating while FF7 got a T. Of course, in subsequent games, they earned their M ratings in spades, but not that one.

So, considering the content they DID submit, what was the ESRB smoking to give it a T rating to begin with?

[Azier the Swordsman]

I've played very few games where the ratings or content were accurate/correct. The government recently fined them for their innacuracy, I think.

[Tommy]

Final Fantasy 7 had worse stuff than all of that and MGS got an M rating while FF7 got a T. Of course, in subsequent games, they earned their M ratings in spades, but not that one.

Um...unless you go the Honey Bee Inn that statement is sort of close to the truth, plus the FF7 look like (once again) legos in the process of melting while the MSG characters had the bodily makeup of humans.

[blkmage]

The only reason Oblivion got re-rated was because the ESRB had no choice after the fallout from GTA.

I think that there must be a reason why developers and publishers keep content hidden on the disc. Think about it. There are always loads of unused textures and partially programmed levels in a lot of games that are hidden and locked away. Don't you think that if the developers could remove them, they would?

The ESRB is supposed to rate games as they are intended to be played. Isn't that why they say that gameplay experience may vary when playing online? That's because having kids swear at you over the Internet are not how the game was intended to be played. Neither are these stray art files.

[Arnobius]

The only reason Oblivion got re-rated was because the ESRB had no choice after the fallout from GTA.

I think that there must be a reason why developers and publishers keep content hidden on the disc. Think about it. There are always loads of unused textures and partially programmed levels in a lot of games that are hidden and locked away. Don't you think that if the developers could remove them, they would?

The ESRB is supposed to rate games as they are intended to be played. Isn't that why they say that gameplay experience may vary when playing online? That's because having kids swear at you over the Internet are not how the game was intended to be played. Neither are these stray art files.

Well, in any other business, the company is responsible for what is in their product, and videogames should be too. The disc that is sold is assumed to be the final product, not some beta with a lot of unfinished products on it. Nobody would hold them responsible for something outside of their control (3rd party mods or internet swearing), but they should be held responsible for anything that is shipped as a part of the game itself.