FFXII Gets Nasty Japanese BackLash (Interesting Article)

[Tommy]

I found this article from a thread in TFF.com.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2591&Itemid=2

Pretty interesting.

[Nate]

I really don't know any of those criticisms aside from the fact that the game just flat out sucks. But hey, if people like the crap Square-Enix turns out, more power to 'em. I'll be over here playing GOOD games.

[Link Antilles]

I'll read the article later, but I skimmed through and those three criticisms are sorta’ lame. I like a challenge, already liked the Star Wars-ish resemblance, and love the music done in Tactics. So, if those are the big complaints, I'm dying to play the game.

[everdred12a]

I skimmed it too, and if these are the major issues that people have with 12, then that's fine with me. I personally feel that most of these criticisms are completely asinine and foolish.

[Tommy]

Well Kaemmerite you think it is crap, but more people like it than hate it since most people bought Dragon Quest VIII FOR the demo and hatd Dragon Quest. Don`t get me wrong, I`m not fond of the new system but it`s nice SE wanted a change.

FFXII is a love-hate situation.

[Tenshi no Ai]

...it's all up to a matter of opinion. Ok, so some people criticized it for a few different reasons. Already one person on the topic isn't interested in it, but are a few things like that going to stop a person that's a fan and wants the game, from buying it?

[uc pseudonym]

I'm generally not one to try to get lots of information about a game prior to its release, so all of this was news to me. Overall, I cannot yet form an opinion about the new battle system (the part of the article I care about slightly); I'll have to see how it plays. Still, I'm negatively inclined toward it. Unless the battles are very beautiful (which I doubt) I don't want to be reduced to a spectator.

[Rogie]

I played the demo that came with Dragon Quest 8, and I honestly hated it. Too much seemed to be going on for a Final Fantasy game. However, I understand that they have fixed the battle system since that demo, so that's good.

And I bought Dragon Quest VIII to play DQ8, not the demo. DQ8 was a surprisingly great game, despite the lack of a good story.

[Bobtheduck]

Yeah, the battle system in the demo sucked really bad... Man... Someone said that's how FFXI plays... FFX was the pinnacle for the battle system, and all the other ones will just be an attempt to draw the non rpg-fans... There's no need for this kind of thing. Does the system HAVE to be revamped every game? In any case, I don't have a PS2, so it does't matter much to me... I'm not in a "Final Fantasy" stage in my life... More of a Metal Gear and Silent Hill stage... And.. Super mario World and Seiken Densetsu 2 (since I only have a Super Nintendo, Dreamcast, and NES at home...)

[DrNic]

Hey, I kinda liked the sound of the new system. At least they're trying to experiment with the whole system instead of tweaking an already-used storyline a bit, putting new characters in and churning out another RPG. (Square won't be able to beat 7 and 9 though, they are just awesome)

[Tommy]

I bought DQVIII for DQVIII as well. I thought DQ8 was going to be MUCH better.

[MasterDias]

...and to keep this thread from being anti-FFXII, here is a pretty in-depth review from someone who really liked the game:

http://www.gamesarefun.com/gamesdb/review.php?reviewid=529

[Bobtheduck]

Since they basically said, from the beginning, they were trying to make it more like AMERICAN RPGs... It's not wonder the Japanese magazines are panning it... That was a bad sign, for me... If I wanted American style RPGs, i'd play them, but I like having Japanese style RPGs. The whole idea that they needed to make it "better" by immitating American RPGs. Meh...

[Link Antilles]

Good find, MasterDias. The *complete* battle system actually sounds like a good improvement over sometime like Knights of the Old Republic’s. I'm intrigued by the "gambit" and license" systems... more so the "gambit" system.

The only thing I'm concerned about now is the English voice acting.

[Lynx]

well i'm keeping an opened mind about ffxii until stateside release. i actually didnt mind the demo, and if the story is strong enough i'll probably like it

[Bobtheduck]

Good find, MasterDias. The *complete* battle system actually sounds like a good improvement over sometime like Knights of the Old Republic’s.

See, though... this is what I'm talking about... Final Fantasy doesn't need to be made more like American RPGs... That whole idea is absurd. That's been their claim from the begining, and it is absurd.

I can't comment on the story, though... I'm just not liking the "open ended" thing... I mean, FFX-2 was "open ended" and it just felt so weak compared to the linear narrative in FFX.

[Tommy]

Never seen an American RPG before, aside from Action RPGs or Action MMORPGs.

[desperado]

Earlier it was stated the battle system was "fixed", what has been changed? All I know if it is even remotely like the dq8 demo I will not even try the game....

edit
oh and I love what penny arcade had to say against the battle system...

[Nate]

Earlier it was stated the battle system was "fixed", what has been changed?

From what I understand, nothing. Back when FFXII premiered in Japan, there was such a huge negative backlash against the battle system Square delayed the game, and people hoped it was to change the battle system. This is apparently not so.

What I find interesting is the arguments presented in the article. "The music is too loud?" Give me a break. The only complaint anyone has ever had is the battle system is garbage. I notice he "conveniently" forgot to mention that complaint (probably because he couldn't find a counter for it), in favor of complaints I'm sure he just made up.

[desperado]

Agreed the complaint listed, frankly...suck. What they need to focus in on is the horrible battle system that is going to most likely kill it. Oh and male heroes not to wear bras....

[Tommy]

I found this part interesting.

Okay, so the Chocobos -- big, yellow riding birds -- were actually stolen from Hayao Miyazaki's movie "Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind," and Hironobu Sakaguchi freely admitted that way back when. He also admits that the airships were inspired by "Laputa," also directed by Miyazaki. Furthermore, Sakaguchi, a huge Star Wars fan, often used the theme of an evil empire and a small band of rebels in his earlier stories. IV even stars a holy knight, his father, a scary man in a black suit of armor, and a battle between the dark side and the light side. Yet these are all universal themes, at least.

[Wise Dragon]

Perhapse the new battle system is meant to appeal more to people who dont usually like RPG's. Though instead of it being like Dot-hack maybee they should have looked more into a Star ocean-kingdom hearts blend. Maybee even consider a dynasty Warriors'ish approach.

[everdred12a]

Okay, so the Chocobos -- big, yellow riding birds -- were actually stolen from Hayao Miyazaki's movie "Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind," and Hironobu Sakaguchi freely admitted that way back when. He also admits that the airships were inspired by "Laputa," also directed by Miyazaki. Furthermore, Sakaguchi, a huge Star Wars fan, often used the theme of an evil empire and a small band of rebels in his earlier stories. IV even stars a holy knight, his father, a scary man in a black suit of armor, and a battle between the dark side and the light side. Yet these are all universal themes, at least.

The Star Wars influence/tribute goes one step further than this says, as the recurring characters Biggs and Wedge got their names from X-wing pilots Biggs Darklighter and Wedge Antilles.

[Tommy]

Whoa, you really pat attention.

As for Link`s name...I GET IT!

[everdred12a]

Yep ^_^ Actually, it was originally just a theory of mine, but then I heard it confirmed somewhere, maybe in the back of a FF guide, or it might have been an episode of Icons, not sure... And the man in the Avatar Link used to have (the one before he changed it to Bob Ross) was Wedge.

[Bobtheduck]

I never played FF9, but I have seen the ending... "Fear Leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" Yeah, It's pretty darned obvious the FF people liked Star Wars...

Where does it mention the last names of Biggs and Wedge in the movies?

[everdred12a]

In episode 4, I believe they mention both. Biggs only got a fairly bit part, he was mentioned in the beginning by Luke (he was talking about joining the Imperial Academy), and they meet later on before they attack the Death Star. Biggs dies, though Wedge was the pilot of the only other X-wing to survive the attack on the Death Star in ep 4 (he's the one who got damaged and had to pull out of the trench), and he eventually goes on to be the leader of Rogue Squadron, and heads up the attack against the Death Star II in Return of the Jedi.

Yes, I am an ep 4-6 nerd.

EDIT: Oops, you asked about their last names... sorry. When Luke meets Biggs before the Death Star attack, he says something like, "Well, if it isn't Biggs Darklighter?" And Wedge's name gets mentioned at some point, but I'm not sure off the top of my head where. Probably sometime in Empire, I guess.

[uc pseudonym]

Wedge's last name is Antilles, Biggs' last name is indeed Darklighter. I personally find these Star Wars references vaguely amusing but little else. It is always interesting to look for where the new game will have Biggs, Wedge, Cid, and other trends.

Unfortunately, I now have to note that we're pretty off topic here. Try not to post unless you have something on topic (or very important) to say.

[termyt]

I've heard complaints about FF battle systems before, but I've never minded them. FF is generally on the leading edge of what RPG battle systems are doing. I'll at least play the game before I announce that the system sucks.

A lot of the complaints I've heard - not about FFXII specifically, but RPG battle systems in general - come from gamers who like real-time systems better than the "wait your turn" systems of classic RPG's. Anything that isn't real-time automatically stinks until proven otherwise.

I actually like the turn based systems. I like to control the actions of the entire party - it's the only way to make every member useful. Donald and Goofy were only a little better than worthless in Kingdom Hearts. If I could have directly controlled their actions, I would have been a lot more affective in combat.

But then, I'm more of a strategist than a button masher. That’s why I got into RPG’s over action games in the first place.