Fansubs yet again - this time another question on legality

[wiggins]

Hi guys
I 've yet another question on the legality of fansubs. I read up on copyrights and the Berne Convention. From what I got from quickly skimming over the websites I found although I didn't note what they were, it is illegal for people to copy and distribute, or publicly display on anything works of art and stuff like that (in our case, anime), and they will be prosecuted if the copyright holder decides to pursue the copyright infringement. Does this mean that people who download them, if they don't participate in distribution and in the actual fansubbing (I think they are called leechers(?)), are fine and free from the laws surrounding the question of fansubs legality? Oh... and is copyright infringement the same as theft or stealing? Thanks!
Wiggins

P.S. Hey the smilies work again! Yay!

[Mithrandir]

Well, I'm not sure how they would find you if you were only leaching - but it's still illegal (possesion of illegal material).

While copyright infringement is not the same as theft legally, from a "sin vs sin" point of view, I wouldn't think there's much difference in God's eyes.

[wiggins]

So do you think God would consider downloading fansubs a sin. I want to download fansubs, but I want to make sure I'm not doing anything I shouldn't too, because left to my own devices, I would probably just download them.

[Ashley]

My 2 cents here:

I've always been of the school of thought that it's ok to download them if they are not released in your area/aren't licensed, simply because I wouldn't consider that stealing. Stealing, to me, is done when you want something for free and just don't want to have to pay for it...not the case in most fansubs. Most people--like yourself I'd assume, Wiggins-- really would like to buy it in English and would do so if it were available to them, it's just that the series isn't. Again, this is my conscience and I wouldn't hold anyone else but myself to it. Personally, I don't think it's right to keep someone from enjoying a series (and potentially buying stuff for that series, for all you economists out there) simply because they were born on this side of the world.

One last thing...that is all my personal judgements; I have no idea what the law is and I can't make head or tail of the snippets of it you posted.

[wiggins]

[quote="Ashley"]My 2 cents here:

I've always been of the school of thought that it's ok to download them if they are not released in your area/aren't licensed, simply because I wouldn't consider that stealing. Stealing, to me, is done when you want something for free and just don't want to have to pay for it...not the case in most fansubs. Most people--like yourself I'd assume, Wiggins-- really would like to buy it in English and would do so if it were available to them, it's just that the series isn't. Again, this is my conscience and I wouldn't hold anyone else but myself to it. Personally, I don't think it's right to keep someone from enjoying a series (and potentially buying stuff for that series, for all you economists out there) simply because they were born on this side of the world.

One last thing...that is all my personal judgements]

Hey Ash!
I understand personal moral standards and conscience and all, but my question is what do you think God thinks of us downloading fansubs?

BTW to clear out any confusion I caused, see this website: http://www.fansubs.info/fanfaq.php?view=legality. It's where I got most of my information from.
Thanks!
Wiggins

[Azier the Swordsman]

I download Sonic X on a regular basis... however, I currently own ALL of the Japanese DVD's of the show, (not the HK bootlegs) and will continue to buy them as each one is released.

[wiggins]

I download Sonic X on a regular basis... however, I currently own ALL of the Japanese DVD's of the show, (not the HK bootlegs) and will continue to buy them as each one is released.

Really? I haven't done that, and I'm not sure of the logic behind it. Can you explain? Does that mean I have to go out and get the Japanese DVDs from all my rather old fansubs? That would cost quite a bit... And what if the series doesn't have DVDs?
Wiggins

[Azier the Swordsman]

I'm not saying you have to buy the Japanese DVD's... the US DVD's will be fine. My reasoning for buying the Japanese DVD's of this particular series is due to the fact that there will NEVER be a Japanese version of the series released of the series in the US. Let's say you download, say, Rurouni Kenshin. It will be legal as long as you own either the American DVD's or the Japanese DVD's. Of course, when you own the DVD's, there is no point to the download then is there? I'm not a fan of dubs. And if the anime I want to watch doesn't have a Japanese version on the disk, I import it. I don't import very often, as it's quite expensive.

My real point is that if you are enjoying a series via fansubs, it's the honest thing to do to purchase it and show your support to the industry.

[wiggins]

OK. I understand but what iof there are no dvds? Like Rockman EXE AXESS?

[Tycho]

OK. I understand but what iof there are no dvds? Like Rockman EXE AXESS?

I like to think of it this way. Most anime being subbed is still being shown on television in Japan. So if I record a new Spongebob of Nick and let you borrow it, is that stealing? Of course not. Since I can't get Japanese TV, I'm watching a current anime through the means of a fansubber.

[Fsiphskilm]

I strongly agree with Ashley.

[madphilb]

Actually Blockbuster buys the VHS and DVDs they rent (originals), recently they've taken to seeling them off pre-owned after a while (recently, as in the last, what? 5 years or so). The money is earned off the original purchace... The monies earned from rentals pays for the company (and it's profits).

I know from talking with some people I knew at Blockbuster that the original Matrix movie couldn't be sold preowned by them till they had "x" number of rentals (much higher than normal)... which is why I bought it new even though it had been out for qutie a while. (I think the idea was to keep new profits comming in from selling new copies that they would have lost with the old ones, and most likely Blockbuster got a discount on the rental copies to offset that).

Well... since I've got nothing else to contribute, I'll go back into Lurk mode...