Please, Don't get upset with me for this

[shooraijin]

Regardless, Naga, is there anyone in your church you can think of?

[mai]

Like Warrior 4 Jesus said, I think it is very important to know God as much as you can.
I've been reading through the old testament lately. My Bible has a commentary that is very helpful in understanding what is happening. One thing that I have learned/ come to terms with, is that God IS justice. He doesn’t simply posses this quality he is it, justice comes from him. God is love and justice, His cup runs over with love, that’s why He made us. We are nothing compared to him and it is only because he is a God of love that we are alive. People are mostly evil, this is made clear again and again. God allowed us free will, so we do evil. God punishes those that do evil and don't turn to Him, but He dos it in his own time. I cry when I read the bible too, but now its because of the evil of the people, God doesn’t enjoy killing us or making us suffer, he just dose what is right.
I just have to trust in God, he has a better idea of what going on then I do, thats why he is God.

[Naga Kisaki]

Answer this, then:

Why is it, If a Woman tries to protect her husband in a fight and accidently grabs the other man, her hand get's cut off, but if a man rapes a woman, all he has to do is marry her? God didn't order his people to whip a rapist, no. Just have him marry the girl and everythings as good as new. Exsplain why if a man's fighting, and hurts a pregnant woman, he pays the woman's husband money. God let people treat women like animals back then! Exsplain that.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Answer this, then:

Why is it, If a Woman tries to protect her husband in a fight and accidently grabs the other man, her hand get's cut off, but if a man rapes a woman, all he has to do is marry her? God didn't order his people to whip a rapist, no. Just have him marry the girl and everythings as good as new. Exsplain why if a man's fighting, and hurts a pregnant woman, he pays the woman's husband money. God let people treat women like animals back then! Exsplain that.

Where exactally is this? If you tell me, I can look it up and look for an answer for you.

[Naga Kisaki]

I'm not sure the scripture, When I saw it I didn't exactly want to memorize it. But theres a lot of stuff like that, It talks about what to do if an arcitect builds a roof poorly, if a man kills a thief or vice-verse, if someone's property get's stolen while it's being loaned to someone, Ect...

[DaughterOfZion]

was it in leviticus?

[Shepherdmoon]

Answer this, then:

Why is it, If a Woman tries to protect her husband in a fight and accidently grabs the other man, her hand get's cut off, but if a man rapes a woman, all he has to do is marry her? God didn't order his people to whip a rapist, no. Just have him marry the girl and everythings as good as new. Exsplain why if a man's fighting, and hurts a pregnant woman, he pays the woman's husband money. God let people treat women like animals back then! Exsplain that.

Yes rape in the bible seems to be ok if you buy and marry .
it is in
Deuteronomy 22:13-30

[mai]

For one thing, if the woman didn't get marrieid she probibly would get stoned if she became pregnant, I don't believe that if the rapist marries that God is going to let him in to heaven and give him a hug.

[Shepherdmoon]

The Bible is clear on this it is fine as long as you marry and give fifty shekels of silver.¨I don't believe that if the rapist marries that God is going to let him in to heaven and give him a hug.¨ If he repents he is fine remember God gave that law about rape.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Lets not make any theological debates, but let me point this out. I know it is about slavery in particular, but it can revolve around any subject actually

In the fallen world that mankind had created, slavery was a reality. God permitted its existence and worked within its system. Slaves were more domestic servants than oppressed field workers. Slaves could be the captives of war (Num. 31:25-47), subjects of debt to be worked off (2 Kings 4:1), born into slavery (Gen. 17:12-13), or entered into voluntarily (Exodus 21:5-6). In the Ancient Near East, some slaves were able to own other slaves and even conduct business and in Exodus 25:2 a slave was required to be set free after six years of service. Though slavery carries a very negative connotation here in America, it was not nearly as bad it was here in the first 100 years of our nation's existence.
As I said above, God works within the fallen system to bring about His will. Slavery was permitted by God and rules of treatment of slaves were given so that they would not be mistreated.

[Puritan]

Remember, Naga, the Old Testament was setting up a system of laws for the country of Israel. Deuteronomy 22 sets up the law you are talking about, the man in question is heavily fined and must marry the woman he has raped, admitted. The laws set up for Israel were not necessarily ideal, but they did work for that society and were in general extremely reasonable to women when compared to society as a whole in that day. We have to be careful when looking at the laws of Israel and remember that they were not ideal, notice Christ's dicussion of divorce in Matthew 19: Christ specifically states that a man and wife should never be divorced except for sexual immorality, but that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of Israel. God set up a civil society, but because people are not perfect the society and its laws were not perfect. Remember, God's law dictates death for every sin, but He allowed a society with laws that changed based on the sin comitted. God was, in His wisdom, setting up a system of laws that would work in that time and place, we should be careful not to get angry with Him for the laws He set forth to govern Israel in that time and place without understanding the social setting into which He was placing these laws.

[mai]

I read Deuteronomy 22:13-30 and I see nothing wrong with it.

[Shepherdmoon]

Lets not make any theological debates, but let me point this out. I know it is about slavery in particular, but it can revolve around any subject actually

Sorry that does make slavery right even if God says so.Also the Bible is crystal clear on rape.

¨I read Deuteronomy 22:13-30 and I see nothing wrong with it¨ How so it is like saying women are property.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Sorry that does make slavery right even if God says so.Also the Bible is crystal clear on rape.

I believe you misread my post. Nowhere did I support slavery, nor did I say that God supported our definiton of slavery. He permitted the old way of slavery because man's system promoted it. So he set boundaries so slavery didn't go overboard. Reread the quoted text in that post again.

[Shepherdmoon]

Still he should have forbid it.

p.s. I know slavery back then was different but still immoral to do that to a human being.


note pm me if you want to go further because this is a prayer thread after all.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Still he should have forbid it.

p.s. i know slavery back then was different but still immoral to do that to a human being.

It's not really anyones best interest to say "What God should of done" or "Why didn't God do this" He does what he does. By your logic, God forbids murders yes? But does he stop a man from murdering somebody? Not really. To stop people from permitting slavery is to stop Person X from murdering Person Y. People had a choice, and they choice to go against God's will. God simply used a fallen system of man to create something good out of it.

[DaughterOfZion]

deuteronomy 22:25-27
"but if in the field the man finds th girl who is engaged and the man forces her and lies with her and then only the man who lies with her shall die. but you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as the man rises against his neighbor and murders him so is this case.when he found her in the field the engaged girl cried out but there was no one to save her.

only in certain cases is it okay for the woman to be "bought" and married. so the statment: rape in the bible is akay if you buy and marry, is false. and if he must marry the woman that would stop some men from doing it. plus is it fair for a man to marry a woman who has been spoiled by another man?

[DaughterOfZion]

How so it is like saying women are property.

two things. the first is thats how socity was then. the second is thats how socity is now in some countries

[Shepherdmoon]

two things. the first is thats how socity was then. the second is thats how socity is now in some countries

Since you are a women if society says women are scum and are treated as trash it is ok and God won´t care because that is how society is?By such a statment you make God out to be uncaring for women.

[FadedOne]

um...wow. how the heck did a prayer request become a biblical debate? is that even kosher?? :/

[Rogie]

um...wow. how the heck did a prayer request become a biblical debate? is that even kosher?? :/

I appreciate some of you trying to give Naga some good quality advice about this, and I would advise you, Naga, to PM some of the members whose responses are more than just posts of debate for further advice. You should be able to pick out the ones who show an obvious understanding of the Bible to contact.

Otherwise, this thread is locked. Shepherdmoon, you've earned yourself a strike for this debate in particular, compounded with other recent debates.