Final Fantasy 7...

[Sephiroth]

i started FF6 but never got round to getting very far, (it was on emulator and so theres only so lonk i can sit and play an emlator version of a game in 1 sitting, i really should go back)

I`m sure Sephiroth likes Sephiroth. XP

(Meaning the user)

heh heh, yea Sephy was awesomest. Cloud was a fave char too.

tehn again i thoughr most of the FF7 chars were good, i like used Aeris lots, which all my friends thought was pointless because [SPOILER] She dies at the end of disk 1[/SPOILER] But she's a very useful char to have around, especial ly when you get her ultimate weapon & Lvl 4 limit break.

[CDLviking]

I suggest looking up a definition of angsty if you think Cloud that's what Cloud is. At most he has existential angst, but not emo life sucks angst. Squall was the angsty FF hero. And also, Cloud and Sephiroth did know each other in the past, but they were neither friends nor rivals.

Like I said, Sephiroth's goal was not to destroy the world, but to attain the power which he considered his birthright. The lives of the rest of the world just happen to mean nothing to him.

[Radical Dreamer]

As for cloud being the best main chracter... NO WAY I would have to agree that he is All angsty and EMO especially in Advent Children ... it gets on your nerves.

Bahahahaha. Emo remains to be the most over-used word of the year. Cloud isn't emo at all. If Cloud were a whiny, skinny guy with black nail polish and girlpants, then he MIGHT be emo. Angsty doesn't mean emo. Besides, Cloud was around long before the emo fad set in (and why, oh, why did it have to set in.. ), so I don't think you have anything to worry about there.

[Chosen Raven]

Alright, what the heck does "emo" mean? You kids and your trendy new fangled words....

Anyway, since this thread is so pro-FF7, I've gotta say it. FF7 was a bad game. If it can even be called a game. It was more interactive media than game. You spent more time watching battles than fighting them thanks to the unparticipatable-wait, is that even a word?...nevermind-limit breaks and summons.

Then there's the characters. First off, I'm not a fan of the character designer. The characters have generic anime design. Only two characters stood out as unique: Red XIII and Vincent. Of course, this is still better than the FFX and FFXII male stripper art, but that's beside the point. Personality wise, Cloud was a jerk, Barret was the big, gruff, profanity spewing black guy, Cid was the gruff, profanity spewing old guy,Tifa was generic busty female mark748, Aeris was generic good girl mark692, Vincent was the dark loner, and Red XIII was...well....you got me there. He was probably the most interesting and unique character in the game. The materia system added to the sameness of the characters by making all the characters capable of the same thing. In the end, the only thing that really differentiates the characters is their look and limit breaks(moves that you hardly use).

Now the story. You know somethings not quite right when you start off playing as part of an environmental terrorist group. Note to Japan: Stop with the "OMG, humans are destroying the environment!!!" themes. The over use of this theme has made me the kind of person that wants to kick a tree on Earth Day. Then there's the vaunted "depth" of the story. It's a mix of psycho-babble,environmentalism, and existentialism that sounds smart n' all when you hear it on the fly, but if you start to think about it, you realize what a load it actually is. Then there's the fact that since this was Square's first foray into the next gen, they decided to spice the game up for an older audience by adding sex and massive amounts of profanity into the game. I for one can understand why profanity needs to be included in certain situations, but FF7 went over the top.

And for those that think the graphics were great for their time, you've been fooled. Probably the only part of the game that actually has good graphics are the summons. The environments are pre-rendered. They're not part of the graphics engine at all. They're simply a cheap way to fool people. Likewise, the cut scenes don't count either. If the entire game were done with the actuall graphics engine, it would look horrible.

I don't understand how people can call this one of the greatest RPGs ever. I consider it to be the 3rd worst Final Fantasy(with FFX the 2nd and FF2 taking 1st). There are so many Final Fantasies more worthy of the honor of greatest. FF8 was FF7 done right. FF9 was a brilliant return to the classics. FF4 had a great story and characters. FF6 was the best, in my opinion. It's sad to see such a shoddy game as FF7 take from much better titles.

[CDLviking]

Anyway, since this thread is so pro-FF7, I've gotta say it. FF7 was a bad game. If it can even be called a game. It was more interactive media than game. You spent more time watching battles than fighting them thanks to the unparticipatable-wait, is that even a word?...nevermind-limit breaks and summons.

Unfortunately, the same is true of most of the FF games, even the ones that you claim to be better suffer even more from the same problems. The only advance made in VIII was the graphics and depending on your style of play the junction system (some people like materia, some don't). I would actually claim that IX is a step down from VIII in almost all regards.

Whether you like the themes of the plot is up to individual tastes, but it held up better than VIII.

[Nate]

Whether you like the themes of the plot is up to individual tastes, but it held up better than VIII.

Yeah, the whole "The Guardian Forces are stealing our memories!" thing was pretty lame.

"Hey, we were all in the same orphanage as a kid, but as a plot contrivance, we conveniently don't remember it!" Blah.

And the junction system...not my thing. As much as I didn't care for the Materia system, I thought it was a lot better than junctioning.

I liked 9 a whole lot better than 7...the biggest thing I didn't like about 9 was a lack of a compelling villain, and the fact that characters could not be customized (Vivi can't learn Cure, for example). I also didn't care for the learning abilities from equipment thing, BUT, I give it credit in that it gave you a REASON to track down the more valuable and rare pieces of equipment rather than going, "I can beat the game with the Apocalypse Sword, why bother getting Ultima Weapon?"

[Tommy]

When I played through FF7, I wasn`t aware of the hype. At the time, the closest thing I played to a fantasy game was kingdom hearts.
I whipped out my old FF7 copy I never played since it was rated T (when I got it, I wasn`t allowed to play T-rated games since I was 9). After finsing out Kingdom Hearts and FFVII were connecting I realized I was old enough to play it and I popped in my first roleplaying experience ever. So therefore, the main reason I love FF7 to death is because my biggest storyline experience was Kingdom Hearts before that.

As for FFVIII, the dawson`s creek-like characters was sorta dumb. Squall wasn`t an emo since he had no emotion. Get it, Chosen Raven raven?

Emo. Emotional.

Zell saved the day. The end.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Tom....... you watch dawson's creek?

[Tommy]

Um....

<<

>>

No.

[Shia Kyosuka]

Alright, what the heck does "emo" mean? You kids and your trendy new fangled words....

Anyway, since this thread is so pro-FF7, I've gotta say it. FF7 was a bad game. If it can even be called a game. It was more interactive media than game. You spent more time watching battles than fighting them thanks to the unparticipatable-wait, is that even a word?...nevermind-limit breaks and summons.

Then there's the characters. First off, I'm not a fan of the character designer. The characters have generic anime design. Only two characters stood out as unique: Red XIII and Vincent. Of course, this is still better than the FFX and FFXII male stripper art, but that's beside the point. Personality wise, Cloud was a jerk, Barret was the big, gruff, profanity spewing black guy, Cid was the gruff, profanity spewing old guy,Tifa was generic busty female mark748, Aeris was generic good girl mark692, Vincent was the dark loner, and Red XIII was...well....you got me there. He was probably the most interesting and unique character in the game. The materia system added to the sameness of the characters by making all the characters capable of the same thing. In the end, the only thing that really differentiates the characters is their look and limit breaks(moves that you hardly use).

Now the story. You know somethings not quite right when you start off playing as part of an environmental terrorist group. Note to Japan: Stop with the "OMG, humans are destroying the environment!!!" themes. The over use of this theme has made me the kind of person that wants to kick a tree on Earth Day. Then there's the vaunted "depth" of the story. It's a mix of psycho-babble,environmentalism, and existentialism that sounds smart n' all when you hear it on the fly, but if you start to think about it, you realize what a load it actually is. Then there's the fact that since this was Square's first foray into the next gen, they decided to spice the game up for an older audience by adding sex and massive amounts of profanity into the game. I for one can understand why profanity needs to be included in certain situations, but FF7 went over the top.

And for those that think the graphics were great for their time, you've been fooled. Probably the only part of the game that actually has good graphics are the summons. The environments are pre-rendered. They're not part of the graphics engine at all. They're simply a cheap way to fool people. Likewise, the cut scenes don't count either. If the entire game were done with the actuall graphics engine, it would look horrible.

I don't understand how people can call this one of the greatest RPGs ever. I consider it to be the 3rd worst Final Fantasy(with FFX the 2nd and FF2 taking 1st). There are so many Final Fantasies more worthy of the honor of greatest. FF8 was FF7 done right. FF9 was a brilliant return to the classics. FF4 had a great story and characters. FF6 was the best, in my opinion. It's sad to see such a shoddy game as FF7 take from much better titles.

hahaha

Guess everybody looks at it differently. *Cloud shrug*

[Tommy]

Don`t listen to him!!!!!!!!!

ff7 PWNS.

[Shia Kyosuka]

I know.

It's just another one of those "FF7 sucks cuz I think too much!" rants.



*cloud shrug again*

[Tommy]

Yeah, it appears that way.

[Chosen Raven]

Unfortunately, the same is true of most of the FF games, even the ones that you claim to be better suffer even more from the same problems. The only advance made in VIII was the graphics and depending on your style of play the junction system (some people like materia, some don't). I would actually claim that IX is a step down from VIII in almost all regards.

Ah, but you forget, CDL. FF8 allowed you to actually play the game. You could actually participate in the limit breaks and summons. I also liked how the monsters in FF8 got stronger as you did. As for FF9, after you used them once, the summons were shortened considerably. It was also the return of the class system, the return of strategy. Each one of the characters were vastly different. The characters had much better personallities than FF7 and FF8's as well.

Whether you like the themes of the plot is up to individual tastes, but it held up better than VIII.

FF8's plot wasn't gold for sure, but the characters and the central love story really made up for it. Even without those things I still consider it better than FF7's drivel.

Yeah, the whole "The Guardian Forces are stealing our memories!" thing was pretty lame.

I don't really consider that as part of the main plot. It's mainly something they added because they thought it would be a neat twist(course, they were wrong). The main story was the Squall/Rinoa romance and the battle against Ultimecia/Edena.

And the junction system...not my thing.

Meh, I was fine with it. Probably because it just took the place of running around fighting enemies to get money to buy armor. It's definitely not the greatest system ever made, though.

As for FFVIII, the dawson`s creek-like characters was sorta dumb.

Are talking about their appearence? Because I'd have to agree there. In fact, I've used the term Dawson's-Creek-lookalikes to describe them on other message boards. Just a side effect of having the same characters designer as FF7. I really don't like that guy's art.

It's just another one of those "FF7 sucks cuz I think too much!" rants.

Yeah, it appears that way.

C'mon guys, you're gonna have to do better than that. I listed the reasons I believe the game to be subpar in a well thought out and coherent manner. That's hardly a rant. If you want to see an actual rant, look at some of the FF7 fanbase when you tell them you think FF7 was a bad game. FF7 is one of the few games known for its rabid fanbase. Even among the sane FF7 fans like yourselves.

[Tommy]

FF8`s storyline was gold.
FF7`s storyline was a GIANT step from FF6 but it was majorly confusing. IMO, the storyline increased as each game went on if you cut out FFX-2.

-And if you ifnore the fact FFIII`s storyline was wekaer than II`s and than FFIV`s storyline was stronger than FFV`s-

[CDLviking]

I know.

It's just another one of those "FF7 sucks cuz I think too much!" rants.



*cloud shrug again*

Actually Chosen Raven's analysis of FFVII is the best I've heard from someone who doesn't like it. Most people who like other FF games or dislike VII can't give reasonable explanations as to why. I respect Chosen Raven for that, but I still say that every other FF game has the exact attributes that he dislikes VII for. Does the ability to mash the X button during a summon really make it that much more interactive? The monsters improving according to your own level was a good improvement I'll admit, but I ask the same question. How does that improve the games interactivity.

[CookinLikeSanji]

FF8`s storyline was gold.
FF7`s storyline was a GIANT step from FF6 but it was majorly confusing. IMO, the storyline increased as each game went on if you cut out FFX-2.

-And if you ifnore the fact FFIII`s storyline was wekaer than II`s and than FFIV`s storyline was stronger than FFV`s-

Woah, woah, woah...

A GIANT step from FF6?

Please explain how you came to that conclusion, I can't wait to hear this.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Woah, woah, woah...

A GIANT step from FF6?

Please explain how you came to that conclusion, I can't wait to hear this.

I too, am quite intriguied by this "giant step" in storyline wise... if anything the storyline stepped down from 6 to 7

[CDLviking]

I think VI is almost equal to VII. The main thing lacking in it was a compelling villain, which we've already discussed.

[Stephen]

I thought FF7 was pretty good. It was the third rpg I ever played. Legaia was first, and FF8 was the second. As far as story goes, yeah...it was nothing outstanding. It was good, just nothing mind blowingly original. As far as graphics...I agree that they were nothing amazing even at the time. I thought Legend of Dragoon did good with there graphics while using a similar feel to FF7. As far as my fav FF? Probably 10, then 8, then 7, then 9. Don't get me wrong, I loved 9...I just really did not like the character designs. Then again, this whole debate can be avoided if you all simply admit that Final Fantasy Tactics own all the other Final Fantasys....

[Tommy]

I just feltl ike there was a giant step.

FF`s story was just:

[SPOILER] Terra joins the team she finds out she can communicate with the Espers and she is half of one. Kefka finds the door to the esper world and he becomes a good. The team fights him, they win. [/SPOILER]

I can`t explain it. FF7`s story just felt like a giant leap for me.

It would just take a giant post rather than three sentences to describe it.

[CDLviking]

FFT was awesome. It's just about equal with FFVII in my book.

[Stephen]

I liked the fact that for once, we diden't have a lead character that was either a sissy, annoying, or unrealisticly cold to those around him. Ramza was the man.

[Tommy]

Yep. Ramza was the man. Unfortunately I never beat Chapter 2.

[Stephen]

It's not an easy game by any means. If you are stuck in a part, I would reccomend starting over (its what I had to do) Always make sure you have about 4 mem card saves. So that if one gets stuck, you can use another. Make sure you don't leave much time between them. This way you reduce the ammount of game you need to play again. I got caught on Valarius (think thats his name) first time I played..and could not level up and it was my only save. So yeah, I had to start over. Its worth playing though. Once you get real confident, try to get the extra Zodiac stone...and go to the dunengon. (I did just about everything in this game, getting Cloud Strife, the dragon girl etc)

[Nate]

Then again, this whole debate can be avoided if you all simply admit that Final Fantasy Tactics own all the other Final Fantasys....

YES. YES. YES. TACTICS OWNS YOU. Best Final Fantasy EVER. Even if the Engrish was bad. XP And yeah, Ramza knew how to make quick decisions, and he knew how to do the right thing.

As for FF9, after you used them once, the summons were shortened considerably.

*steps in as a FF9 fan* Kinda. Summons were played as their full length upon the first summon. After that, summons were USUALLY shortened. However, once in a great while, it would show the full summon animation again, and the summon would do more damage. Think of a full summon as a "critical hit" and a shortened summon as a regular attack.

Later on, Eiko and Garnet could learn the ability "Boost" which strengthened the attack power of summons and caused them to always play their full animation.

Meh, I was fine with it. Probably because it just took the place of running around fighting enemies to get money to buy armor.

You're saying...wait wait wait. You're saying that running around fighting enemies to draw spells to junction is somehow BETTER than running around fighting enemies to get more money to buy armor? They seem the same to me. In fact, I'd say running around fighting enemies to get money is better due to the fact that it doesn't take twenty minutes to stand there and repeatedly use the Draw command on a single enemy so you can get 100 of something. Unless of course, you're fascinated by sitting on the same battle screen for twenty minutes staring at the same enemy. Not me, though. I like some variety.

I too, am quite intriguied by this "giant step" in storyline wise... if anything the storyline stepped down from 6 to 7

I disagree. I thought the story in 7 was much more compelling than in 6. I liked the characters in 6, as they were more thought out than the ones in 7 (and looked cooler too). However, there were just TOO MANY OF THEM. Seven had an advantage in that having a smaller party allowed the game to be more character focused. The characters drove the storyline. Since 6 had so many, and you could have almost anyone in your party at a given time, it's difficult to have a character-driven storyline. There just also seemed to be no goal after the world gets blown up. You start out as Celes, and you get back a couple of party members...and then you get an airship...and then you just kind of randomly fly around with no real goal.

FF7 always had something going on to advance the storyline, and in this respect was a huge improvement over 6.

[Myoti]

Let me just put it down like this:

They're video games. Games most of has played and enjoyed, whether we think parts of them were better or not. Final Fantasy set the standard for many RPGs, and at the time, FF7 was quite good, whether it seemed that "original" or not.

To me, it's like this:

-FF7 was going for the coolest look and feel, whether it had that good of a stroy and all. Apparently, is succeded, as it has one of the biggest fanbases of any RPG. It's still a good game to play (and out of the others on the PS, it's in the most need of a remake).

-FF8 had more interaction, probably one of the better storylines and characters, and it felt much more original than alot of the others (probably due to the more "modernized, down to earth" feel, if that makes any sense).
I like FF8, alot. Of the main three (7,8, and 9), this was my favorite gameplay-wise.

-FF9 was great as well. I personally didn't like alot of the character designs (does not mean they were BAD) in this one, but it was still good. It also brought back the feel of the original games (which I half liked and half didn't).


They have their own strengths and weaknesses, we have our own opinions. Shia's got this game and appears to be enjoying it, so let's drop the war and get back to having fun.


Thank you.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

It would just take a giant post rather than three sentences to describe it.

[spoiler]Cloud is recruited to join this team called avalanche to stop shinra corp from taking all the mako energy out of the earth. But that isn't the main focus and the real focus is Sephiroth and Jenova who want to find the promise land. So your team goes to try and stop him.[/spoiler]

3 sentences

[Tommy]

[SPOILER] You lefto ut a ton of reasons why they would defeat Seph.
Seph or Jenova killed Aeris.
Cloud finds out his true personality.
They go to defeat the president of Shinra and Sephiroth already did it.
You left out a lot more than I did. FF6 was jsut about as long as Disk 1 of FF7. [/SPOILER]

EDIT: Another reason i disliked FF more than 7 is because of what Kaemmerite said. Too many characters. It was like a warm-up for Chrono Cross.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

[SPOILER] You lefto ut a ton of reasons why they would defeat Seph.
Seph or Jenova killed Aeris.
Cloud finds out his true personality.
They go to defeat the president of Shinra and Sephiroth already did it.
You left out a lot more than I did. FF6 was jsut about as long as Disk 1 of FF7. [/SPOILER]

I knew you were going to say that. And I have the same response to you

[spoiler]you left out a ton of things:
Locke loosing Rachael
Celes at the Opera
The whole purpose of the empire.
The purpose of Emperor Ghestal.
The Doma castle incident
Each characters reason for fighting against Kefka
The identity of Shadow
The identity of Gogo (never revealed by the way)
What ever happened to Daryll[/spoiler]

Having way too many characters doesn't mean ya got to use them... There were a number of characters I never really used in FF6