Chrono Cross

[Tommy]

Ok, I`m sure we can all agree Chrono Trigger was a better game than this sequel, but it only sucks when you compare. In RPG sequels with different main characters there`s nothing I love more than references to the original. I would`ve appreciated it if this game was more similar to Trigger but oh well.

The gameplay is pretty good and some parts are better than trigger. I believe that if there was 6 characters like in Trigger, this game would`ve been better than Trigger.

I just had to poijnt out the music in this game. Fantastic.
The plot is not as good as Trigger but the plot is stronger than Trigger, but keep in mind that Chrono Trigger was an SNES game. A stronger plot doesn`t mean it`s better.

Chrono Trigger was:
Go through time, meet random people and then save time from Lavos while Cross is much more than that.

A random question though:
I`m on the Sky Dragon boss and I`m not sure if i should use Serge or not. Serge is my strongest character but white attacks to him are absolutely devastating. He has 470 health and UltraNova does 500 to him and 200 to everyone else while HolyBreath does 490 damage and 200 to everyone else.
Serge can induce 300 hp of the enemy per turn but whenever it helas it hels around 500 and none of my other characters can keep up with that.

Another random question:
IS stealing the Dragon Plate with Fargo against every dragon 100% neccessary.I`m pretty sure I can manage without doing it but I mean the scale of a successful steal is 3 to 10 and you can only do it once per battle.

[Radical Dreamer]

Ok, I`m sure we can all agree Chrono Trigger was a better game than this sequel

Ehh...no. I actually liked Cross more. Trigger comes in a VERY close second, but Cross is really my favorite game. Ever.

I'm not sure if i should use Serge or not.

Actually, unless you're on your second playthrough in New Game+ mode (and since you're asking a question, I doubt you are), then you can't ever take Serge out of the party while fighting. In New Game+ mode, you can have other members fight in your place, but until you've earned it, Serge has to be in your party at all times.

He has 470 health

I'm...pretty sure he should have more than that by now...I mean, it's been a while since I've played the game, but I think I remember having more HP than that when I reached that point. You have been leveling up a lot, right? I'm pretty sure you should be more experienced at this point, unless I'm confusing this part of the game with another portion.

IS stealing the Dragon Plate with Fargo against every dragon 100% neccessary.I`m pretty sure I can manage without doing it but I mean the scale of a successful steal is 3 to 10 and you can only do it once per battle.

Necessary? No. Helpful? Extremely. When wearing a Dragon Plate of a certain element, any attacks of that element cannot harm the character they are being used against. Near-invincibility is always a plus.

[Tommy]

I am on DarkSerge. Actually, I have used Lynx without any members before in this game. It is very possible for me to switch. i already tried Sky Dragon without him.

I backtracked and decided to go to Forbidden island.

So, I guess I am teh underlevled. I have about 500 now for Lynx.

Radical Dremaer, I have the best fanfiction to show you. I actually made a thread for it in Gamer`s Galore since it is about the Chrono franchise.

[Rocketshipper]

I also like Cross more than Trigger now, although it didn't used to be that way. It's a strange story. Cross used to be one of my LEAST favorite RPGs of all time, I HATED it. Then I replayed Trigger and Cross back to back on New Game+ and being super powered (and having fast forward abilities ^^) alowed me to breeze through the battles and focus on understanding and taking in the story, and I ended up really enjoying myself.

[Radical Dreamer]

Hmmm. Shouldn't you be putting something in SPOILER TAGS, Tom? Ah-hah. Eeeyeah. >.>;

[Nate]

You have been leveling up a lot, right?

"Levelling up?" What is this "level" thing of which you speak? Oh, that's right...Cross doesn't HAVE levels. One of the reasons I very much disliked this game, since if you have trouble with a boss you can't exactly go out and earn some levels to get stronger.

At any rate, Cross is very much on the bottom of my list of favorite RPGs. The music rules, the graphics were pretty, but the battle system wasn't to my tastes and the plot was full of holes and contradictions. And...

[SPOILER]They KILLED OFF all the characters from Trigger. Way to appeal to your fanbase, Square. Idiots.[/SPOILER]

[Cognitive Gear]

"Levelling up?" What is this "level" thing of which you speak? Oh, that's right...Cross doesn't HAVE levels. One of the reasons I very much disliked this game, since if you have trouble with a boss you can't exactly go out and earn some levels to get stronger.

At any rate, Cross is very much on the bottom of my list of favorite RPGs. The music rules, the graphics were pretty, but the battle system wasn't to my tastes and the plot was full of holes and contradictions. And...

[SPOILER]They KILLED OFF all the characters from Trigger. Way to appeal to your fanbase, Square. Idiots.[/SPOILER]

Actually, it DOES have levels. After every boss fight, you are awarded a level up. Also, by fighting monsters between levels, you gain a few extra stat points.

And quite the opposite of you, this is one of the reasons I enjoyed the game. I truly enjoy a difficult boss, and bosses in RPG's can't exactly be hard unless the devs can make a good guess at your level. The fact that there is a smaller range of levels (yes, you could level up by doing some side quests that involved bosses) helps make the bosses as difficult as intended. I love having to plan my turns and having my personal strategy mean more than how much time I've spent leveling.

For Kae:

[spoiler]Killing off the original cast is Masato Kato's artistic right. His character's, his story. Calling the man an idiot for killing off his own characters is hardly justified. If everyone tried to appeal to just thier fanbases, we'd have alot more of the same game with a new name running around. Change is good for the gaming industry, as people have short attention spans. Appealing to no one but the basic fanbase is what gave us FF:AC. Great grafics, decent fight scenes, but it had a very boring and weak plot. Although I must be wrong, because that's what makes money, right? [/spoiler]

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Tommy]

I got the Mastermune!!! Doing 400 damage per attack! W00t! And I can attack 3 times per turn measuring at 1200 damager per turn!

I also beat Disc 1 and am currently on the Oraphanage.

After viewing all those seet plot twistis I have to admit Kaemmerite thi game is up to par with Trigger.

My opinion Kae, most sequels to RPGs are in different worlds. Just think of cross as a different world with a few Trigger references.

[Nate]

After viewing all those seet plot twistis I have to admit Kaemmerite thi game is up to par with Trigger.

Like I said, the plot had too many holes and contradictions for my tastes. I like my plots to make something that resembles sense. But hey, if you like plots that have more holes than a sieve, more power to ya.

[Tommy]

Well, there are some confusing aspects of the story, but the plot is more deep than Chrono Trigger. Chrono Trigger`s plot was go through time and save world from Lavos while Chrono Cross is pass through dimensions and not find out who the villian is until you reach the end because I like a surprize.
I played Chrono trigger in motovation of beating it so I could play Cross. Shoud have been the other way around.

[Radical Dreamer]

the plot had too many holes and contradictions for my tastes

Could you name a few of the holes that you noticed in Cross? I don't remember any on the spot, other than the deal with Trigger's characters. And technically, they are still there...just in ghost form. >.> At least you get to see Gato in the orphanage, though. I'm still of the opinion that
[SPOILER]one of the game's best points was that it turned a supposedly small character of Trigger into a major character and plot point in Cross. I am, of course, speaking of Shcala/Kid here. I was dissapointed at the end of Trigger, when the party didn't find her after all of that...[/SPOILER]

Anyways, Cross remains my favorite game. And yes, I still name Guile Magil, no matter what anyone says about his actual identity. XD

[Nate]

[SPOILER=Porre]Porre? A MILITARY SUPERPOWER? You have to be kidding me. One of the major sidequests in Chrono Trigger was getting the mayor of Porre to turn into a nice guy so he'd give you back the Sun Stone! I SERIOUSLY doubt he would somehow build up an army and attack other countries.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=Grobyc]Robo was the pinnacle in robot technology in the future, and Grobyc was more advanced than him DESPITE his being invented 1,280 years prior? Yeah, that's not a plot hole, not at all. e.e[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=Lavos]Ah, the BIGGEST plot contradiction of all. Lavos, with the last of his strength, pulled Chronopolis to the past as a form of "insurance." Here's the kicker: Chronopolis is from the future where Lavos WAS DESTROYED. Chronopolis, and FATE's job, was to ensure NOTHING CHANGED IN THE PAST. This would mean Chronopolis has to make sure Lavos is destroyed. So...HOW in the WORLD is this a form of "insurance" for Lavos? The only thing it's doing is making sure that it'll be destroyed! BIGGEST...PLOT CONTRADICTION...EVER.[/SPOILER]

[MasterDias]

"Levelling up?" What is this "level" thing of which you speak? Oh, that's right...Cross doesn't HAVE levels. One of the reasons I very much disliked this game, since if you have trouble with a boss you can't exactly go out and earn some levels to get stronger.

With a few annoying exceptions, the bosses of Chrono Cross were on the whole fairly easy. So I didn't have a problem with the way it structured its level system.

I had some fun with Cross' battle system although summoning was too much of a hassle and pretty pointless to set up...

[CookinLikeSanji]

Yes, yes, plot contradictions, no leveling and a talking kitty cat trying who hates the main character's guts. But you're all forgetting what made Chrono Cross GREAT...

Glenn.

Enough said.

[Rocketshipper]

I loved not having traditional levels!! I hate it when I have to spend hours and hours leveling up to get a certain spell or to be strong enough to beat a boss. Gaining levels only after boss fights was great, it gave me an excuse to avoid most random battles ^^.

[Nate]

I had some fun with Cross' battle system although summoning was too much of a hassle and pretty pointless to set up...

I didn't bother with summons until I got the Field elementals.

But there were no BlackField or WhiteField elements. Which is stupid. And part of the reason why I almost never used Black or White summons.

But you're all forgetting what made Chrono Cross GREAT...

Glenn.

Yes. Glenn was awesome. And he and Serge had the most useful Double Tech (out of SEVEN...come on Squenix, give us a break...). I liked him, especially when he wielded the two Einlanzers from both worlds. He did insane amounts of damage.

Appealing to no one but the basic fanbase is what gave us FF:AC.

And trying NOT to appeal to the basic fanbase is what gave us FFXII. So, either way the company screws up. But I'd rather see them use a tried and true formula and succeed masterfully (Dragon Quest 8) than go out on a limb and try something different and fail (Chrono Cross, FFXII).

[Tommy]

Ok, I beat Chrono Cross (yes,I got the ending using the chrono cross element) last night and I would say about a good 3/4ths into the credits it freezed. I tried again and it froze in the same spot. I was srot of stressed out, but then I realized that story was pretty much wrapped up anyways. I heard there was some scene after the credits, but I doubt its worth buying a new copy of Chrono Cross with a clean disk.

As for Porre
[SPOILER] There is a scene in the PSX version of Chrono Trigger when you get all the endings. It shows a Masamune weilder (not shown, but many theoires point to the fact it was Magus) and the weilder leads the Porre army to destroy Guardia Castle. The weilder kills the Guardian king, Crono, and takes over Guardia.
Therefore Porre gained equal power to Guardia and they became a strong military force. [/SPOILER]

I never got Glenn in my party since I thought it would be a god idea to save Kid. XP

[Bobtheduck]

I'm pretty sure FFXII isn't out yet, except a small demo, so we can't make a judgement on that yet really... I have yet to be disappointed by a game after playing a good demo, but I hated the full version of FFX-2 a bit less than I hated the demo, so it's possible it will be better in full form.

As for the Lavos thing, man... I need to play these games again... I honestly don't remember most of this stuff... However, I do remember I loved Chrono Cross from front to back. The Battle system is more strategic than Trigger, as it doesn't depend on Leveling up... I just need to play the games over again to figure out those potential plotholes... The porre one seems adequately explained...

[Tommy]

The question remains, Do I need to see the ending after the credits or is the story well wrapped up anyways.

[Radical Dreamer]

I never got Glenn in my party since I thought it would be a god idea to save Kid. XP

[SPOILER] Actually, Kid gets saved whether you save her or not. It's really better to get Glenn, as Kid doesn't hold anything against you for leaving her behind.[/SPOILER]

The question remains, Do I need to see the ending after the credits or is the story well wrapped up anyways.

[SPOILER] There are some scenes near the end of the credits where you see Kid continuing her search for Serge. After the credits, there's an FMV with Kid standing on the shores of Opassa Beach with a different outfit and hairstyle...Still searching for Serge, I'm guessing, but she's accepted her role as Schala and is more of a "lady," I guess.[/SPOILER]

I had some fun with Cross' battle system although summoning was too much of a hassle and pretty pointless to set up...

Yeah, I thought so too. The summons were eye candy, but it always took too long to actually be able to use them. I just ended up using them during petty battles so I could see what they looked like. I think I used them about 5 times throughout the entire game.

Anyways, just remember, guys. We all have our different tastes and opinions. Some of us like change, some hate it, some are indifferent. I personally liked the new battle system that was used in Cross (it was easier to learn than FF8's, even though I liked that one too), even though I did enjoy Trigger's system, too. Just don't bash it because you don't like it...We're all entitled to our own likes and dislikes, and we also don't deserve to be bashed for liking a game that another thinks is sucky. Thank you, my 5 minutes on the soap box is finished.

[Nate]

[SPOILER] There is a scene in the PSX version of Chrono Trigger when you get all the endings. It shows a Masamune weilder (not shown, but many theoires point to the fact it was Magus) and the weilder leads the Porre army to destroy Guardia Castle. The weilder kills the Guardian king, Crono, and takes over Guardia.
Therefore Porre gained equal power to Guardia and they became a strong military force. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]1. The Masamune was Magus' bane. He would never be able to wield it, this is the only sword that could beat him. He couldn't be the wielder.

2. Why would Magus take the Masamune and attack Guardia? Makes no sense. All he wanted was Schala back. That's why at the end of Trigger Marle asks, "Are you going to go look for Schala?" and Magus doesn't say anything, he just goes into the time portal. Magus would never get involved in any human wars...remember, he didn't summon Lavos to destroy humanity. He was merely doing it to get revenge on Lavos for taking his sister.

3. I'll accept defeat on the issue of Porre being taken over by an outside force and attacking Guardia, though the game COULD'VE explained that better. That's one of the "holes" I mentioned. They gave no explanation.[/SPOILER]

[Tommy]

Kae, all we need to know is Porre became a powerful nation. It is a videogame so a backround story isn`t completely neccessary.

I guess I am going to watch the ending to Chrono Cross at my friend`s house since he has a copy of Chrono Cross except it is in worse condition. I wonder if it will work.

[Nate]

Kae, all we need to know is Porre became a powerful nation. It is a videogame so a backround story isn`t completely neccessary.

*going slightly off-topic*

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought when you wrote a plot for a book/movie/game, that background info WAS important. Cross is SUPPOSED to be a sequel for Trigger, so anything disparaging between the games SHOULD have been explained.

Example (for illustration purposes only):

Let's say they make Spider-man 3. Let's say he has a bright orange costume on. Let's say they NEVER explain why he has an orange costume on, he just has it throughout the movie. When the movie was over, wouldn't you be saying, "Hey, why was he wearing an orange costume in this one? He wasn't in the last one. It doesn't make sense."

Or to hit closer to home, what if they made a new Grandia game and Valmar was a benevloent god of light who gave peace and joy to the planet? Wouldn't you wonder, "Hey, what freakin' happened from the last game? He wasn't like this at all."

Porre was a peaceful village with a friendly mayor (after the Sun Stone quest). For it to suddenly become a military superpower with NO explanation is unfulfilling and a plot hole, same as if Spider-Man suddenly had an orange costume with no explanation or if Valmar became a god of love and peace with no explanation.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Radical Dreamer]

I'm beginning to wonder why there is even an argument between Tom and Kae here, since Tom said that he liked Trigger better in his first post. Perhaps we should move on, though...Who's with me?
*impersonates Vash*

Love and peace! Love and peace!

[Cognitive Gear]

[SPOILER=Porre]Porre? A MILITARY SUPERPOWER? You have to be kidding me. One of the major sidequests in Chrono Trigger was getting the mayor of Porre to turn into a nice guy so he'd give you back the Sun Stone! I SERIOUSLY doubt he would somehow build up an army and attack other countries.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=Grobyc]Robo was the pinnacle in robot technology in the future, and Grobyc was more advanced than him DESPITE his being invented 1,280 years prior? Yeah, that's not a plot hole, not at all. e.e[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=Lavos]Ah, the BIGGEST plot contradiction of all. Lavos, with the last of his strength, pulled Chronopolis to the past as a form of "insurance." Here's the kicker: Chronopolis is from the future where Lavos WAS DESTROYED. Chronopolis, and FATE's job, was to ensure NOTHING CHANGED IN THE PAST. This would mean Chronopolis has to make sure Lavos is destroyed. So...HOW in the WORLD is this a form of "insurance" for Lavos? The only thing it's doing is making sure that it'll be destroyed! BIGGEST...PLOT CONTRADICTION...EVER.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=Reply to Porre]You are assuming the mayor is the same man who built up this army.[/spoiler]

[SPOILER=Reply to Gyrobic]You got me here. The only thing I can think of is if he was developed by FATE, which comes from roughly the same era as Robo. If this were so, then this would have a chance. I can't recall if they covered who creating Gyrobic or not, so I may be blatantly wrong.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=reply to lavos/time devourer]we can logically assume that it is possible for powerful entities can reach across time, space, and DIMENSIONS to do things.
The planet did it. Schala did it. FATE can do it. Zeal pendants (Kid and Harle's
'Astral Amulets') can do it. Which in turn means that Lavos must be able to, as Zeal's power comes from lavos.
What is in Chronopolis that can possibly benefit Lavos, you ask? Why FATE of course. FATE is a supercomputer entity able to track and manipulate people and places in any number of dimensions. If he altered it, Lavos could easily wipe Crono from existence, were it not for the following factors:
1. the Prometheus lock (go Lucca!) which Lavos probably didn't know about]

[Tommy]

I must say it does make sense. There is no agruement going on here. I just stated something that I should have given more thought.

Anyways, ikimasu, that was a good explanation.

Kae, you`ve played Grandia 2? I thought you said you haven`t played it.