prayer needed

[Shepherdmoon]

well i have been struggling with the issue of science and the bible and because of this am feeling doubt about the faith.[help]

[Nate]

Will do. If you ever wanna talk about it, PM me. ^^

[Heart of Sword]

I'll pray for you. PM me sometime if you want to talk about it. Remember, science is all theories, it can't prove anything no matter what scientists want to think.

[Doubleshadow]

I'm a chem. and biochem. double major with a thorough back ground in evolutionary biology and evolutionary biochemistry. I understand. There are some excellent books by Christians on the topic, but in the mean time, some basic advice.

Even an expert does not know everything.
Scientiss bicker constantly about evolution, Darwinian evolution, Neo-Darwinian evolution, intelligent design, and then expect you to accept theories ultimately because they say so, when they don't even know for sure what they should tell you.
Not all scientists are good people, and they will lie, cheat, and completely make up and warp information to further their carrers. Don't trust all information, especially if it is undetailed.
Nothing in a text book or lab trumps your personal experience; if you know Jesus, then you have a relationship and memories of that relationship. That is not a figment of your imagination.
Once you get into the higher sciences, you will learn how little we know. Facts are sometimes missed, faulty, misinterpreted, or lost. The current conclusion may not be the previous conclusion, the final conclusion, or even be part of a chain of conclusions that will ever lead to the right one.
Science is fact and deals with natural world. Only God is Truth. What is a fact in the physical world may have nothing whatsoever to do with the truth of the spiritual world. Do not mistake fact for truth.

Hope it helps.

[Heart of Sword]

Actually, scientific stuff like evolution and all that is pure theory. Too many people accept theory as fact. I wish I could knock some sense into them with a sledgehammer.

[justaservent]

First off
dont worry about what scentists say!
GOD Willing this site should give you the information about how so many scientists
come to these conclusions like evoulotion
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i1/creation.asp
in truth evoulotion is not only geneticaly impossible but has been discredited many times! http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i2/genetics.asp
why then do many scientists continualy hold to evoloution as fact?
GOD Willing the answer is actully simple with out it they must assume
that there is infact a GOD, read Romans 1:21
GOD Willing that is something most scientists will never do, and instead will
use there imaginations to come up with long crack pot theorys
due to the fact that they have already made up there mind not to believe
him
in truth GOD Willing i think it was in the 1950
when a creation model proving the earth is in fact only around 6 thousand years old like the BIBLE says it is
this model was apparently more scientificaly correct than the traditonal old earth theory however it was rejected due to the fact that it was apparently "religous"

GOD Willing i belive the two big methods of dating they use are carbon dating and radiometric dating which are are proven to be incorect

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/carbon_dating.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17December2001.asp

actualy the law of cause and effect actualy proves the existence of GOD


if you go as far as you can with physics theres no other explanation other then to
asume a GOD
even albert einstein realized this he said"science without religion is blind"
ofcourse im not claiming he was a great Theoligist he also said"religion without science is blind"which is not true!,i also i hate the word religion he got the
first 3 letters right but its not religion but a relationship with Jesus thats important
GOD has Given us ample evidence to belive in Him but remeber
you should belive in Him because of who He is

[PHSYCOAT]

Don't pay attention to what people say the facts are. listen to GOD for the His Truth and His Truth alone. I will pray for you. I pray that Jesus will give you His clarity, that you may know without a doubt that Jesus is our gracious and loving father! I know God is real I have felt his prescence and he answers me when I pray.Be strong and courageous in our lord Jesus,

[Rjdreamer]

I heard a story from a person on how she was an inetern at a meseum. A dinosaur bone came in and was studied. It was discovered that there were still proteins in the bone, which would have all been sucked dry if dinosaurs had really died out as long ago as it would have taken for evolution to work. However, when later this example was put in the text books, it was not seen as proof aginst evolution. They simply said 'we are not sure how this happened, but we are on there verge of finding out.' when really they had no idea how it could have happened inside the theory of evolution.

However, not all scientists are like that. I live in the NASA area of alabama (near the space and rocket center) and I know plenty of christian scientists. One told me that they were developing a formula which showed that time itself had a begining.
And how could time begin except to be created?
Many scientists come to Jesus through the study of science. C.S. Lewis, though not a scientist, was a brilliant man and said himself that he was 'dragged kicking and screaming to the kingdom of God.'

Don't pay attention to what people say the facts are. listen to GOD for the His Truth and His Truth alone. I will pray for you. I pray that Jesus will give you His clarity, that you may know without a doubt that Jesus is our gracious and loving father! I know God is real I have felt his prescence and he answers me when I pray.Be strong and courageous in our lord Jesus,

Sometimes, it is not easy to take God at his word. Our paster once said that doubt is natural in Christian life. Thomas, often seen as 'bad' since he doubted the ressurection, did Jesus chastise him? No, he basically said see the truth, touch it, and be at peace.

[Nate]

In response to justaservant, not everyone adheres to a 6,000 year old view of Earth (myself being one of them). I'm not a mod, but I think that stuff should have been taken to a PM. Please don't start a debate in someone's prayer thread. That's very rude.

[Rjdreamer]

I think how old the world is is one of those things that we will discover when we get to heaven and God will give us understanding. After all, the Bible never says how old it is.

[Ryupower]

Here's a nice site you may like:

http://www.EvidenceofGod.com

Think of just how stupid MACRO evolution is:

One animal has a itsy bitsy mutation in it's brain that's useful
It mates
1) trait is not dominant, too bad.
2)Trait is dominant...
2a) whoops, X00000000000000 more animals of the same specied to go...

What's the chance of a mutation to come through? (ummmm...0)
1 animal in howmuchever.

whether you go with choice 1 or 2, it always ends up to disapeer...

I'll be praying though.

[Shepherdmoon]

every [yecs] i myself am a theistic evolutionist [my views are similar to kaemmerite] so i do not like the aig links it has alot of bad science.

[agasfas]

This is how I view it... If man is created in the image of God, and Jesus was God in flesh, why wasn't Jesus a monkey?

Anyways, I'll be praying for ya. I hope you find the answers you're looking for. Similar to what Doubleshadow sated, many things tend to be falsified or theorized as truth. I hope you find the answers to your questions.

[hawaiishirtguy]

Whether you lean towards theistic evolution or straight creationism let me just toss you a few things to think about.

Both evolution and creationism are faith based. Evolution is NOT pure science. Pure science involves repeatable experiments in a controlled setting. Macroevolution cannot be scientifically proven any more than the fact that George Washington was the first president of the United States.

Second, ideal science should be entirely objective, but origin research is highly subjective. Two researchers can look at the same evidence and come up with different interpretations of the data. Example: evolutionists propose that the grand canyon is the reult of millions of years of erosion, whereas a creationist can look at the same rock formations and propose that they are the result of the geological upheaval during Noah's flood.

If you want to peruse some other stuff check out http://www.icr.org (Institute for Creation Research) and feel free to PM me.

Evolution may attempt to tell us where we came from, but it can't give us purpose, hope, encouragement, salvation...

Jesus can.

Praying for ya.

[Shepherdmoon]

This is how I view it... If man is created in the image of God, and Jesus was God in flesh, why wasn't Jesus a monkey?

Anyways, I'll be praying for ya. I hope you find the answers you're looking for. Sometimes it takes more then just reading a biology book because many things tend to be falsified or theorized as truth.

well i am pained to see how christians are so ignorant to this "issue', i see evolution as a showing that God is active in creation and cares for it, and what you ignore is that in man God breathed his spirit did he do this to monkeys no! and let me give something to all you anti-evolutionist this is from theistic evolutionist glenn morton you can find the whole article here so isee no reason to be anti-evolution that said thank you for your prayer.

[Shepherdmoon]

Whether you lean towards theistic evolution or straight creationism let me just toss you a few things to think about.

Both evolution and creationism are faith based. Evolution is NOT pure science. Pure science involves repeatable experiments in a controlled setting. Macroevolution cannot be scientifically proven any more than the fact that George Washington was the first president of the United States.

Second, ideal science should be entirely objective, but origin research is highly subjective. Two researchers can look at the same evidence and come up with different interpretations of the data. Example: evolutionists propose that the grand canyon is the reult of millions of years of erosion, whereas a creationist can look at the same rock formations and propose that they are the result of the geological upheaval during Noah's flood.

If you want to peruse some other stuff check out http://www.icr.org (Institute for Creation Research) and feel free to PM me.

Evolution may attempt to tell us where we came from, but it can't give us purpose, hope, encouragement, salvation...

Jesus can.

Praying for ya.

well i don't advocate icr[cus they spread misleading false info] but you are 100% right"Evolution may attempt to tell us where we came from, but it can't give us purpose, hope, encouragement, salvation...

Jesus can." so if evolution is true [and i believe it is]that in no way tell us that Jesus didn't rise from the grave [which he did].

[Nate]

By the way, Shepherdmoon, since you are being bombarded with YEC views and sites so openly, I thought I'd post a few links of my own for our viewpoint.

First of all, I recommend any books by Dr. Hugh Ross, one of the more prominent OECs out there. Here also are some sites for you:

http://www.reasons.org/

http://www.answersincreation.org/

http://www.evidence.info/

[Shepherdmoon]

Ahhh some fresh air! now all i need is some TE links.

[Ryupower]

Whether you lean towards theistic evolution or straight creationism let me just toss you a few things to think about.

Both evolution and creationism are faith based. Evolution is NOT pure science. Pure science involves repeatable experiments in a controlled setting. Macroevolution cannot be scientifically proven any more than the fact that George Washington was the first president of the United States.

Second, ideal science should be entirely objective, but origin research is highly subjective. Two researchers can look at the same evidence and come up with different interpretations of the data. Example: evolutionists propose that the grand canyon is the reult of millions of years of erosion, whereas a creationist can look at the same rock formations and propose that they are the result of the geological upheaval during Noah's flood.

If you want to peruse some other stuff check out http://www.icr.org (Institute for Creation Research) and feel free to PM me.

Evolution may attempt to tell us where we came from, but it can't give us purpose, hope, encouragement, salvation...

Jesus can.

Praying for ya.

Thx for the link, And yeah, I agree with this guy 100%

and also thanks to you, kae

[Shepherdmoon]

well now for some links from me.


talkorigins

asa

ken miller's page

dinosaurs and the bible

glenn morton's page

God,genesis,and the big bang

hope these links help.

[agasfas]

Since everyone is posting links I have a pretty good one. http://www.drdino.com/downloads.php

The video page, which I linked has a lot of interesting videos (esp. "age of this earth). It's not boring and it is very insightful. I just thought it may be worth a look as well... Never know.

This is staring to look more like a debate than a prayer thread. You said that you are struggling w/ your faith because of science, so others are trying to give a few alternatives.... Perhaps not in the most effective way, but they're trying. Science (in geneal) is constantly being changed with new findings and theories. It's constantly being revised, proposed and altered. If we always believed everything scientist claimed as fact, we would still believe the world to be flat, or the sun still rotates around the earth. There is only one absolute truth- God. I think many loose sight of that when topics like these come up.

I'll continue to pray, take care.

[justaservent]

and what you ignore is that in man God breathed his spirit did he do this to monkeys no!

If your reffering to GENESIS 2:7 your painfully mistaken

"the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
GENESIS 2:7 NIV


first thing to note is the word life here is, in the hebrew text, plural
Litteraly meaning "breath of lives" ( in Hebrew nishmath kay-yim)
next let us note (nishmath kay-yim) ocurrs in a simalar form (this is Hebrew agian ruach khay yim)
in 6:17 Reffering to both man and animal
it also it ocurs in 7:15 Reffering to animals


and in 7:22 (nishmath-
ruach khay-yim) refering to both man and all living creatures

next let us note that in 1:20 24 30 God spoke of the nephesh hayyah
litterly "soul breathers"or "life breathers"(often translated as"living creatures"or"life")

next let us go on to the word soul in the BIBLE in Hebrew(nephesh)
and in GREEK(psuche)

(nephesh) is translated as "soul" in the old testement 472
times,as "life"118 times and as creature 8 times] and what you ignore is that in man God breathed his spirit did he do this to monkeys no! [/QUOTE]

so far we have disproved this assumption

but for sake of continuing on with the other meanings lets well...continue on
with the rest of the meanings

the third meaning for soul is used to refer to varied emotions or iner thoughts see JOB 30:16 6:7-11 PSALM 119:28 MATTHEW 23:37 as a couple
examples


the fourth meaning of the word soul reffers to the part of us that lives on after death whether it be to eternal life in Heaven or eternal suffering in hell
see GENESIS 35:15 1KINGS 17:21 PSALM 41:4 MATTHWE 10:28 theese are a couple examples


I actualy just started studing this yesterday and i today just a couple of hours before i logged on i conducted a thourogh study on GENESIS 2:7
GOD Provides! and i Praise Him!

an eyewittness is supperior to longwinded guests and theorys
and that is what we have in the BIBLE
and if it is ignorant to beleive the in the Word of GOD over all authorties on earth
than its foolish to not be ignorant
and if im called legalistic for proclaiming the truth of GOD
then id rather be ripped limb from limb than not be called legalistic


i beseech the moderators to leave this thread unlocked in light of
what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 10:5
(and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ)

i have Prayed and GOD Willing ill keep it up:thumb:
i also had problems with Faith recently and was trying to prove my faith but GOD reminded me that the i should belive in Him because of who He is
and thats better proof than any man can come up with

[Shepherdmoon]

well agasfas when a wanted help i did not mean psuedo-science like that of "dr".hovind,so i think the links should stop because i do not want anymore young earth charlatan links.and lets keep things civil,also seeing this thread makes me sometimes wane in faith because here are the atheists attacking us and all we can come up with is creationism.[sadly it is the majority and people lose faith because they are told it is the bible or evolution and that is just wrong and false.]well that is my $0.02 ,hank you for the support and prayer.

[Falcon]

Lord I pray for this situation. I pray for a heart that would seek your truth and Life. May this person truelly see you in all that is around them, the big things and the tinmnest of all details working together. May the simplicity and perfectness of all the design and creation be seen as an expression of who you are and how much you care. Lord thank you for our brain and our free will, thank you also for your Son Jesus that he gave his life so that we may Live.

[freerock1]

You mentioned that you see evolution as God being active in creation and caring for it. That's an interesting perspective. I would say, don't let the debate over creationism/evolution shake your faith, but rather let it be used to strengthen your faith in Christ, whichever side you decide is right. And it sounds like that's what you're trying to do. In any case, I'm lifting you up.

[Shepherdmoon]

You mentioned that you see evolution as God being active in creation and caring for it. That's an interesting perspective. I would say, don't let the debate over creationism/evolution shake your faith, but rather let it be used to strengthen your faith in Christ, whichever side you decide is right. And it sounds like that's what you're trying to do. In any case, I'm lifting you up.

Thanks freerock1.[Thanks for your support of my position.]

[Ryupower]

Shepherd,I know SECULAR sources that say that evolution's false. Including that of secular science magazines like PM (German one, and believe me, in Germany they teach evolution as a fact of life...so that's shocking), it started with something like: "Darwin was wrong...-and he knew it." (in german, of coarse)

but yeah, lots of non-Christians believe in creation (like Muslims...Jews...some new agers and agnostics....) So we're not alone.


The thing is that many atheist scientist/doctors become Christians just because they found something in their studies. These are usually the people who start such creationist ministries. ( So they basicly specialize in it)

Just thought I might share.

[Shepherdmoon]

THIS IS BECOMING A DEBATE SO PLEASE CEASE POSTING.

[Ryupower]

good point. I'll shut up now! ^^;
The thread was created for prayer not for debate, so yeah, before we gt more off topic...
I'll shut up, sorry! ^^;;