Majority ?
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Majority ?
just wondering who here considers themselves Christians or Creationist...or evolutionsit or theistic evolutionsit (mix of Christian and evolution)
a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step
- chinese proverb
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purplemoose - Posts: 132
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Debate waiting to happen. >_>
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When you find yourself in the company of a halfling and an ill-tempered
Dragon, remember, you do not have to outrun the Dragon......you just have to outrun the halfling.
Dragon, remember, you do not have to outrun the Dragon......you just have to outrun the halfling.
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Locke - Posts: 3691
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I plan to work for Answers in Genesis in years to come. I believe in God's word when He says that He made the world and everything in it in 6 literal days (Hebrew: Yom).
Theistic Evolution doesn't make sense when you think about it. The Bible says that, when this world comes to an end, that we will live as it was before the fall of man... when God created the world. If evolution is true, then that means that our futures are going to be the evolutionary model... that is, we will be living in a world where death exists. However, that would mean that the Bible is lying since it is written that there will be no more death.
Really, I've said this before, but it's impossible to be a Christian and evolutionist at the same time when you think about it. Evolution undermines the entire message of the Bible.
(taken from one of the latest issues of AiG)
Theistic Evolution doesn't make sense when you think about it. The Bible says that, when this world comes to an end, that we will live as it was before the fall of man... when God created the world. If evolution is true, then that means that our futures are going to be the evolutionary model... that is, we will be living in a world where death exists. However, that would mean that the Bible is lying since it is written that there will be no more death.
Really, I've said this before, but it's impossible to be a Christian and evolutionist at the same time when you think about it. Evolution undermines the entire message of the Bible.
(taken from one of the latest issues of AiG)
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Slater - Posts: 2671
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- Location: Pacifica, Caliphornia
I'm a Christian Creationist :3 I used to be a theistic evolutionist. Just turn to the Gospel of John 1:1 or Genesis 1:1
Theistic evolution doesn't fit with the bible, because for Evolution to happen, Death causes change in species etc. That would mean God din't literally create Man on day 6, but that day 6 (being whatever thousands of years that time and chance need to make a mirical *rolleyes) evolved from Chimpanzees or gorillas, whatever. After much death and suffering we getto Adam and Eve, the first humans. .. But wait! By Man, Sin and Death entered the world. With Evolution as the mechanism of "creation", Sin and Death (Destruction* comes first. o.o
- and incase you're wondering where Dinosaurs fit in; keep in mind the word Dinosaur wasn't invented til 1841 by Sir Richard Owen, 2 hundred years approx. after the first English bible.
Theistic evolution doesn't fit with the bible, because for Evolution to happen, Death causes change in species etc. That would mean God din't literally create Man on day 6, but that day 6 (being whatever thousands of years that time and chance need to make a mirical *rolleyes) evolved from Chimpanzees or gorillas, whatever. After much death and suffering we getto Adam and Eve, the first humans. .. But wait! By Man, Sin and Death entered the world. With Evolution as the mechanism of "creation", Sin and Death (Destruction* comes first. o.o
- and incase you're wondering where Dinosaurs fit in; keep in mind the word Dinosaur wasn't invented til 1841 by Sir Richard Owen, 2 hundred years approx. after the first English bible.
Your arms are too short to box with God.
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SonicRose - Posts: 107
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There's definitely a locking in your near future. Go to Theology Web for this kind of stuff; this isn't the place for it.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
[indent]~~Gandalf, in Fellowship of the Ring[/indent]
[indent]~~Gandalf, in Fellowship of the Ring[/indent]
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EireWolf - Posts: 2496
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Regardless of whether you believe in evolution or not, I believe Christians are probably creationists. That's probably as far as I'll go on this site.
[color="Red"]Please visit Love146.org[/color]
A member of the Society of Hatted Members
If your pedantic about grammar, its unlikely that you'll copy and paste this into your sig, to.
A member of the Society of Hatted Members
If your pedantic about grammar, its unlikely that you'll copy and paste this into your sig, to.
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termyt - Posts: 4289
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I'm a Christian Creationist too. Evoulution and God's Word don't mix.
Very interesting cartoon Slater, and it sends an important message also.
I'm a member of Theology Web and while its a good site and you can discuss all the deeper stuff freely there I feel a bit overwhelmed with all the strong intelligence levels there. I just want a good debate! (Maybe there should be a mid level forum for that kind of thing).
Very interesting cartoon Slater, and it sends an important message also.
I'm a member of Theology Web and while its a good site and you can discuss all the deeper stuff freely there I feel a bit overwhelmed with all the strong intelligence levels there. I just want a good debate! (Maybe there should be a mid level forum for that kind of thing).
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
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AnimeHeretic wrote:Doesn't help when the poll seems to imply only Creationists can be Christians. Needs locking
I agree; the survey's sample is self-chosen. I'd recommend that the mods reword that (mods can edit poll info), but I doubt they will.
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Slater - Posts: 2671
- Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 10:00 am
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Christian Creationist, but I believe in evolution within species, like wolves to dogs and carp to goldfish and related stuff.
Heart of Sword's Rhapsody
Money, get away
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay
And all and all you're just another brick in the wall
Shoutin’ in the street gonna take on the world some day
But Bismallah will not let me go
Because I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
Tommy used to work on the docks
Union's been on strike
Bright eyes burning like fire
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids
Who will love a little Sparrow
Who's traveled far and cries for rest
Spare him his life from this monstrosity
I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all
And if the band youre in starts playing different tunes
We will we will rock you
We will we will rock you!
[Pink Floyd fan listening to Queen and hugging trees which is also known as taking care of God's creation with a pair of headphones on listening to Nightwish as loud as possible while writing a novel on a computer in the middle of a field filled with Wolves.]
[Bassist...finally learning Money]
Money, get away
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay
And all and all you're just another brick in the wall
Shoutin’ in the street gonna take on the world some day
But Bismallah will not let me go
Because I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
Tommy used to work on the docks
Union's been on strike
Bright eyes burning like fire
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids
Who will love a little Sparrow
Who's traveled far and cries for rest
Spare him his life from this monstrosity
I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all
And if the band youre in starts playing different tunes
We will we will rock you
We will we will rock you!
[Pink Floyd fan listening to Queen and hugging trees which is also known as taking care of God's creation with a pair of headphones on listening to Nightwish as loud as possible while writing a novel on a computer in the middle of a field filled with Wolves.]
[Bassist...finally learning Money]
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Heart of Sword - Posts: 2201
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Heart of Sword wrote:Christian Creationist, but I believe in evolution within species, like wolves to dogs and carp to goldfish and related stuff.
I'm gonna say this real quick before the thread gets locked. Evolution within species is called microevolution, while evolution from one species to another is called macroevolution. Microevolution, also known as adaptation, has been proven (google peppered moth) but macroevolution is denounced by most Christians, including me.
*insert poem, quote, or witty comment here*
"If it doesn't fit, you must edIT! -- [color=#cc3322]MOES."[/color]
"If it doesn't fit, you must edIT! -- [color=#cc3322]MOES."[/color]
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meboeck - Posts: 1311
- Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:00 pm
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my thought.... it is the past ... let it be the past. God will tell us one day anyways... so i say dont worry about the past let it stay there.
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~NL~
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~Natsumi Lam~ - Posts: 708
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kaemmerite wrote:Just fine, thanks.
Hven't been hit by objects falling up have you
Maybe above you meant some popular theories in science haven't been proven, despite some scientists insisting they are true (Carl Sagan for example)?
If nothing has been proven in science, then we'd be sitting in caves still.
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Arnobius - Posts: 2870
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm
Well, remember...science can't "prove" anything conclusively. Actually, despite what you just said, gravity IS still considered a theory. Granted, it's been around for a long freakin' time, and it has withstood every scientific experiment it's undergone...but scientists still will not call it a proven fact, because there is the possibility (no matter how unlikely) that gravity could one day be disproven.
That's more what I meant, that everything is still called the "Theory of Whatever."
If Technomancer shows up before this thread goes away, perhaps he can explain it a bit better than I can (assuming that I don't have some wires crossed somewhere).
Granted, it's been around for a long freakin' time, and it has withstood every scientific experiment it's undergone...but scientists still will not call it a proven fact, because there is the possibility (no matter how unlikely) that gravity could one day be disproven.
That's more what I meant, that everything is still called the "Theory of Whatever."
If Technomancer shows up before this thread goes away, perhaps he can explain it a bit better than I can (assuming that I don't have some wires crossed somewhere).
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
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Warrior 4 Jesus wrote:I'm a member of Theology Web and while its a good site and you can discuss all the deeper stuff freely there I feel a bit overwhelmed with all the strong intelligence levels there. I just want a good debate! (Maybe there should be a mid level forum for that kind of thing).
Just thought I'd point out that the PM system is always available.
The Forsworn War of 34
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Icarus - Posts: 1477
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[quote="kaemmerite"]Well, remember...science can't "prove" anything conclusively. Actually, despite what you just said, gravity IS still considered a theory. ]
I would be careful with a general statement like that though. Someone could turn it around and apply it to Christianity.
Some science is proven. Take oxygen out of the room and we die. That's science.
I don't think science is an enemy of Christianity-- though some scientests are. The problem is some scientists draw a conclusion outside their field they can't support-- based on their beliefs, and decide there is no God. But personally I feel If God created the universe, then science is in place because of His creation, not something outside of it, and we don't have to fear science-- just unscrupulous scientists
There's an anecdote told of Pope John XXIII meeting with some scientists, and he praised them, saying he thought their work was important. One scientist protested saying "What if we find proof there is no God?"
John XXIII smiled and said "Oh, I have great faith in you scientists... you wouldn't rest until you corrected your mistake."
I would be careful with a general statement like that though. Someone could turn it around and apply it to Christianity.
Some science is proven. Take oxygen out of the room and we die. That's science.
I don't think science is an enemy of Christianity-- though some scientests are. The problem is some scientists draw a conclusion outside their field they can't support-- based on their beliefs, and decide there is no God. But personally I feel If God created the universe, then science is in place because of His creation, not something outside of it, and we don't have to fear science-- just unscrupulous scientists
There's an anecdote told of Pope John XXIII meeting with some scientists, and he praised them, saying he thought their work was important. One scientist protested saying "What if we find proof there is no God?"
John XXIII smiled and said "Oh, I have great faith in you scientists... you wouldn't rest until you corrected your mistake."
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Arnobius - Posts: 2870
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm
Wow, suprised this thread is still here, it's definitely going to be locked. . . but yeah, creationist Christian here.
Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all.
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all.
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Yumie - Posts: 1939
- Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: In a house
eh... microevolution is a misleading term. What happens is this: survival of the fittest. At least to a certain extent. It is actually best demonstrated within the human race. Notice how that (in the past, at least) the colder, less sunny parts of the world such as Europe have more white people than black. This is because black people are not able to survive well in those atmospheric conditions; their skin is not able to gain enough vitamin D in the limitted sunlight. Blacks, however, have the advantage in the sunny areas since their skin has more melanin than an Europeans. This is why there are more blacks in places like Africa than whites; white people burn up more easily and thus would die out quicker due to skin problems.
This is proven... microevolution if you wanna call it that, tho it's not really evolution at all. It's just sorting out of genes. While the Bible doesn't say so, it's a very safe to assume that Adam and Eve were people with brown skin, and that things stayed that way for until God invented different languages among men. All it takes is some high-school knowledge of genetics to see that it is 100% possible and plausible that every people group in the world could be contained in two lone people. As a matter of fact, that's somewhat proven. Years ago, in Britian, a couple of mixed descent (brownish skin) had a pair of twins. What was surprising to some was that one of the babies was as white as a european could be, and the other child had very dark skin.
Similar things happen in the animal kingdom. Dogs are dogs, but there are different kinds of dogs. Sometimes, the dogs characteristics are determined by what genetic code suited that group of dogs in the conditions they faced in the wild (such as wolves). The dogs with genes unsuited for the conditions the pack would face would be weaker than the dogs with good genes, and thus less likely to find a mate or would die out sooner. Other times, the characteristics of a certain breed of dogs is due to intentional inbreeding by humans. The dalmation, for example, was inbred to the point when its hearing problems and spotted coat (both of which are due to mutations in genes) became default in dalmations. This is why mutts are healthier dogs than purebreads; they have fewer (significant) mutations in their gene pool.
In closing, microevolution is, in concept, true. But in termonology, it is actually a form of de-evolution; the reduction of genetic information spectrum in groups of organisms. None of such things relate back to the grand evolution scheme that evolutionists such as Darwin wanted people to believe, and, as a matter of fact, it points to the Creationist approach at origins. Ever since man fell, everything in our world has been falling appart, including our genes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One last thing to the side... someone said that these matters don't matter today because our origins are in the past. That idea couldn't be more incorrect. The bible makes it clear that there are so many things about creation that our lives revolve around. For example, we have our 7-day week because of the Law of Moses, and it was put in Moses' Law because God put it there, and God says he put it there because He created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Also, evils in the world such as homosexuality and abortion are founded in evolution. If God didn't create Adam and Eve in the Garden and sanctify marriage between one man and one woman, then why say that homosexuality is wrong? If we evolved from some pond scum or animals, then why say that killing an unborn human (which, according to the evolution model, is nothing more than an animal) is wrong? Point is that if God did not create the world as He says He did, then there's a lot of things in scripture that don't make sense
This is proven... microevolution if you wanna call it that, tho it's not really evolution at all. It's just sorting out of genes. While the Bible doesn't say so, it's a very safe to assume that Adam and Eve were people with brown skin, and that things stayed that way for until God invented different languages among men. All it takes is some high-school knowledge of genetics to see that it is 100% possible and plausible that every people group in the world could be contained in two lone people. As a matter of fact, that's somewhat proven. Years ago, in Britian, a couple of mixed descent (brownish skin) had a pair of twins. What was surprising to some was that one of the babies was as white as a european could be, and the other child had very dark skin.
Similar things happen in the animal kingdom. Dogs are dogs, but there are different kinds of dogs. Sometimes, the dogs characteristics are determined by what genetic code suited that group of dogs in the conditions they faced in the wild (such as wolves). The dogs with genes unsuited for the conditions the pack would face would be weaker than the dogs with good genes, and thus less likely to find a mate or would die out sooner. Other times, the characteristics of a certain breed of dogs is due to intentional inbreeding by humans. The dalmation, for example, was inbred to the point when its hearing problems and spotted coat (both of which are due to mutations in genes) became default in dalmations. This is why mutts are healthier dogs than purebreads; they have fewer (significant) mutations in their gene pool.
In closing, microevolution is, in concept, true. But in termonology, it is actually a form of de-evolution; the reduction of genetic information spectrum in groups of organisms. None of such things relate back to the grand evolution scheme that evolutionists such as Darwin wanted people to believe, and, as a matter of fact, it points to the Creationist approach at origins. Ever since man fell, everything in our world has been falling appart, including our genes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One last thing to the side... someone said that these matters don't matter today because our origins are in the past. That idea couldn't be more incorrect. The bible makes it clear that there are so many things about creation that our lives revolve around. For example, we have our 7-day week because of the Law of Moses, and it was put in Moses' Law because God put it there, and God says he put it there because He created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Also, evils in the world such as homosexuality and abortion are founded in evolution. If God didn't create Adam and Eve in the Garden and sanctify marriage between one man and one woman, then why say that homosexuality is wrong? If we evolved from some pond scum or animals, then why say that killing an unborn human (which, according to the evolution model, is nothing more than an animal) is wrong? Point is that if God did not create the world as He says He did, then there's a lot of things in scripture that don't make sense
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Slater - Posts: 2671
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*Walks in wearing a maid outfit. Fluffs the pillows. Dusts the mantle. Turns the lights out. Locks the door behind her.*
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Gypsy - Posts: 4056
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*Opens door back up to let AnimeHeretic out, who obviously snuck in while she was dusting. Locks door again.*
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"A ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for." - John A. Shedd
"A ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for." - John A. Shedd
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Gypsy - Posts: 4056
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