Who is Jesus really?

[~Natsumi Lam~]

I have been researching the nature of Jesus. In Christianity and in other religious studies. Ive found some very interesting views...

Let me know how you view Him.... so i can add your thoughts to my studies



~Natsumi Lam~

[uc pseudonym]

On an administrative note, you are all free to give your views on Jesus, but keep in mind that if others disagree with you in some small way that theological debate on the forums is forbidden. Please PM them with any concerns you may have.

[starfire]

No prob, UC Pseudonym(sp?)

I tend to view Him as the bearded man in the white robe, featured in all of the paintings. Which probably distorts the understanding of the true Jesus. We seem to think of Him as that picture, and hear His words in the Bible, but never really listen to the tone.

But what I do get, is that Jesus is strong, yet humble. (which, for someone who is God, is amazing, considering human pride alone) He faced temptation, but never succombed to it. So, from that I would gather extreme will power and faith. Also, I believe He has a sense of humor. I guess I get that from some of the stories and parables in the NT.

I have to think that He's somewhat intrigued that people can know about salvation and yet deny it. Probably not surprised, given human nature, but intrigued. And maybe hurt. That's got to be hard.
But, ultimately, I'd say He's totally focused on doing the will of the Father. (the Trinity still boggles my mind, but 'tis cool nonetheless)
Anyway, that's my opinion.

[Nate]

I'm confused as to the point of this thread. I mean, we're (for the most part) Christians, right? There's a few atheists on this site, and maybe a couple of Mormons, but for the most part I think everyone on this site views Jesus as being both God and man at the same time, and as part of the Trinity.

So...I guess what I'm trying to say is, since most of us are in agreement here, what are you asking? I'm thinking maybe this thread would fit better on theology web, where many different religions could give you their views on Jesus instead of having 50 people post, "Yeah, He's the Son of God and part of the Trinity."

[GhostontheNet]

I have been researching the nature of Jesus. In Christianity and in other religious studies. Ive found some very interesting views...

Let me know how you view Him.... so i can add your thoughts to my studies



~Natsumi Lam~

Hehehe, reminds me of the end of
John's gospel, where although they know full well that it is Yeshua they are tempted to but to not dare ask - "Who are you!" This is way too big of a question to not write an essay which is actually a summary or book. In general, I pretty much align myself to N.T. Wright's perspective in Jesus and the Victory of God (longest and ocassionally least clear, but documents sources the most, written at the scholarly level), The Challenge of Jesus: Rediscovering Who Jesus Was and Is (summarized, and I suspect this is a word play making both Yeshua the challenge and the challenger), and the Everyone Gospel Set http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0664228518/qid=1129670416/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1902577-6904658?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 (Six book long Gospels translation and commentary set at the popular level which is the most down to earth and explanitory but not prone to dumbing things down, it is indeed a favorite of mine).

[mitsuki lover]

I am equally confused as to just what the theme of this thread is supposed to be.
Are we to tell you what we think of Jesus from a particuliar religious view or
how we view him as a man?
Please clarify.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I dunno... Just how the Bible tells Him to be. Part of the Trinity, fully man and fully God saviour of the world. :\

[Yojimbo]

Yeah I'm a bit confused as to the point of this thread as well.

Lord and Savior of us all, part of the Holy Trinity, fully God, and of course fully human.

Physically most likely resembled a modern day Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese, something along those lines as did every other Hebrew. No way was he he white or black for that matter, but it really doesn't matter it was just windowdressing.

[~Natsumi Lam~]

I'm confused as to the point of this thread. I mean, we're (for the most part) Christians, right? There's a few atheists on this site, and maybe a couple of Mormons, but for the most part I think everyone on this site views Jesus as being both God and man at the same time, and as part of the Trinity.

So...I guess what I'm trying to say is, since most of us are in agreement here, what are you asking? I'm thinking maybe this thread would fit better on theology web, where many different religions could give you their views on Jesus instead of having 50 people post, "Yeah, He's the Son of God and part of the Trinity."

I am asking what He is personally to YOU

~NL~

[Mave]

Let's see.....while I learn much about Jesus Christ in the Bible, I personally find Him mysterious in an enticing way. There are so many things I would like to know more....especially when I find myself wondering "What would Jesus do/say?" in various circumstances or asking those multiple "Why?" questions. At such confusing/controversial moments, I find myself wishing that He could be here right by my side in a physical and tangible sense. I guess you could say sometimes I feel like I'm in a long distance relationship with Him with a intense desire to get back together one day. Frankly, I can't wait for His return.

He is wise beyond words. He's everything inside of me that I wish I could be and look up to as a hero. With Him being perfect in every way, He'll beat all the bishies in the world hands down appearance-wise! (LOL) I don't know exactly how He'll look but it's gonna be awesome XD.

If I were to meet Him face to face, I think His actions will shock me as I'm pretty sure I don't understand the depths and extend of His love. He will show me a whole new understanding and I'll be amazed. Actually, I'm not even sure if I can stand before Him as I'll feel so unworthy before Him. I'm pretty sure I'll break down and cry before Him, in the sorrows of my sins. Everything else I hold dear in this world wouldn't matter at all and I think my heart would be beating furiously..."My Lord, will I be able to be with You forever?"

Eh....now, did I unintentionally ramble away without really answering your question? <.<;;; I guess I could have said that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Savior of Man and the Good Shepherd but most of us already know that.

[~Natsumi Lam~]

awsome answer !!! That was what i was looking for

I wish Jesus could give me a hug and sit and talk to me also!!!

Sometimes i wish he was my "play buddy", in that he hangs out with me and plays sports and goes to dance class... hoping he wouldnt wear that robe... it might make tap dance difficult. I wish He would sit next to me and tell me all the intents of the bible [my mind can handle]. And when i do the deliverance ministry stuff, he would be holding my hand and giving me decernment. I wish he was paint and draw with me and be interested in the things i like, and vice versa. We could just go to the park and sit in the rain and watch the awsome weather around us. He would sing with me and do karaoke with me [english verson please]. That would be awsome.... that is what i really wish that He was here physically.


~NL~

[Scribs]

I am asking what He is personally to YOU

I think that this may not be the best way of phrasing this. God in all three of his persons is an absolute. He is not different things to different people. He is always the same, no matter what. I think that the propper way to ask the above question would be "what is your personal relationship with Jesus like" because it is our relationship with Jesus that can be different, not Jesus himself.

I appoligise if that was too to theological, and off topic (which I somewhat suspect it was.)

[Nate]

Nah, Scribs, I think you were dead-on, dude.

I think right now, I'm very spiritually immature...it's like when you were a kid and you wanted to stick the fork into the electrical socket, and dad told you, "No," and you went, "But why?"

Or maybe I'm the only one that did that... >.>;;

But that's how it is with me. So many hurtful things have happened to me in the past few months, and I find myself looking up at God like a little kid and saying, "But why?" Only, y'know, God can't respond. Well, I mean, He COULD, if He wanted to, but He doesn't...so I just have to like...go on, and know that He's watching out for my best interests, somehow, even if I don't know how and He doesn't tell me.

Which is frustrating, I admit, but there's little choice I have in the matter. It's all up to Him, after all.

Well, that's my relationship with God, at least...I hope that is more helpful to you. ^^;;

[~Natsumi Lam~]

I think that this may not be the best way of phrasing this. God in all three of his persons is an absolute. He is not different things to different people. He is always the same, no matter what. I think that the propper way to ask the above question would be "what is your personal relationship with Jesus like" because it is our relationship with Jesus that can be different, not Jesus himself.

I appoligise if that was too to theological, and off topic (which I somewhat suspect it was.)

Christianese again.... i think everyone understood why i put " What is he to you"... dont flame for no reason.

~NL~

[Scribs]

Christianese again.... i think everyone understood why i put " What is he to you"... dont flame for no reason

I did not in any way mean to flame. I did understand what you meant, I simply thought that there was a more correct way of phrasing it. I do however appologise if any part of my post caused offence, and I wish to assure you that if any offence was caused that it was not intended.

-Scribs

[Mangafanatic]

Christianese again.... i think everyone understood why i put " What is he to you"... dont flame for no reason.

~NL~

Please don't take Scribs statement to be a flaming statement! I didn't read it that way, and I'm sure that wasn't what he meant.

Let me see. I think I agree with Scribs. I mean, our society is very interested in "What is God to ME." A major fraction of our society believe in some "God entity," but a much smaller percentage are faithful followers to the truths of Christianity. What I make God is immaterial. Regardless of my flawed thoughts about Him, He is what He is. God isn't to me something that He isn't to you. As others had pointed out, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Regardless of what I think He is.

Maybe the phrasing is what's bothering me. What exactly do you mean, Natsumi-chan? Are you saying "What kind of relationship do you have with Him?" (As Scribs suggested) or do you mean "What kind of misconception do you have that change your view of God?" or "What would you want to do with Jesus if you had a day with Him?"

[mitsuki lover]

Still at sea as well but here goes:
First I believe before we can know who Jesus is as God and Savior we need
to come to terms with who he is as Man.This is a rather sore point with some
as we tend to emphasis his deity too often over his humanity.Jesus' humanity is equally as important as his deity,even more so.Without his
humanity Jesus would never be fully qualified to be our Savior.

[Spiritsword]

I dunno... Just how the Bible tells Him to be. Part of the Trinity, fully man and fully God saviour of the world. :\

Exactly.

[~Natsumi Lam~]

ok ... this is what i meant...


Most Christians agree with the trinity, all the names of Jesus [ie king of kings, prince of peace... and so on], all agree he is the savior, born of mary, both God and human...

Yes i was not talking about the common christianese names or titles for God/Jesus. It is more like this....

I have always felt that Jesus was my best friend. Someone who would never hurt me on purpose. I felt Jesus as my healer... i might not see it but i know he is fixing me. He is my provider... the idea if he would provide for the flower and the birds of the air... he would provide for someone made after his own image. He is my King.... i desire to honor him with all parts of my life... and so on.

[uc pseudonym]

Though I think the beliefs behind these semantics are a legitimate concern, I also believe they have probably reached the limits of their usefulness. Unless someone has something they feel is absolutely critical, it would probably be best to return to the intent of this thread.

With that in mind, I suppose I will actually participate. Putting aside God's actual qualities, I will speak for a moment on my perception of YHWH (as it is difficult for me to separate parts of the Trinity). I have always most easily considered God master and ideal. My relationship with him is definitely that of an adoring servant to a master, though I sincerely wish this outlook engendered more humility (it does not only due to my own faults). At the same time, in that he became fully human, God demonstrated the life he wants us to live. Unfortunately, we do not have every detail of Jesus' life, so I do not have an objective standard to really be a "role model."

[Nate]

Someone who would never hurt me on purpose.

Forgive me if I'm steering this thread back in a wrong direction, but the problem with that statement is that God DOES hurt us on purpose quite frequently, for His reasons alone, so that we may grow more into His image. Remember, we are called to suffer as Christ did, and in fact God tells us explicitly that we will suffer even more because we follow Him.

[~Natsumi Lam~]

come on guys... dont get this thread locked...

it was a simple question,... " What is Jesus to you?"

I would think that a christian forum would understand this and NOT fight... i feel saddened by the attempted and pushed argumentative nature of some of your posts.

All i wanted was your personal take on the "Nature of Jesus". So that i could put it in my presentation.... THAT WILL BE ON TV.

I think this is the very reason why some people leave ... lets take up the character of "Do unto others..." and what parents teach children " If you dont have anything nice to say" DONT POST.

We are here to help one another in the Lord....not to aruge who is right. And if you are here to help your fellow christian, and you know he is a bit off... and you say something to help correct him. Do a PM that is what they are for.


As for uc pseudonym i am sorry you dont see the usefulness of this, but there is more to it than you recognize. People can not understand others views about their own faith and or view of the most important person "Jesus" without asking. To me He might be a bestfriend.... because i dont have one. to you uc pseudonym he is a "servant to a master" relationship, now how would i have known that without asking? And how can i help portray the 'christian' view as a whole on TV if i only have my view.

Once again i am saddened that people argue about important issues about our faith, while being a ok and not fighting over Cat and Dog threads[not that i am saying i want a fight on this thread]. I think it really shows the unity of the church nowadays.... always at eachothers throats to see who is right, belittling and not "building eachother up in the Lord".



And again i have a good feeling that thread is going to be locked and i am not going to get the needed opinions... but let me ask you this, before you jump to the "closed thread" ... how am i going to get the christian opinion without talking to christians.....i cant do it at church because i am doing the "Who is Jesus" discussion there?

~Nastumi Lam~

[Scribs]

I would think that a christian forum would understand this and NOT fight... i feel saddened by the attempted and pushed argumentative nature of some of your posts.

I really do not think that Kae was trying to start a fight (and neither was I). He was simply stating his view as opposed to yours, which if I am not mistaken is what you were asking for in this thread. You wanted other peoples views on Jesus. You said that God would never hurt you, and he differed, and said that God occasionally does as a test. (I would actually say, that he himself never harms you, but allows harm to come to you as a test, but that is somewhat besides he) Anyway, I really do not think that people are trying to argue, so much as give their opinion on different aspects of the subject.

As for the actual question of this thread, which I actually have neglected to answer until this point (my apologies for that), I believe that Jesus is the son of God, completely God and completely man. He was sent to earth to take the punishment that we deserve for our sins. He was crucified on the cross and died, but three days later he was raised from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits on the right side of Go the father. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. My personal relationship with him, is that he chose me, and compelled me through his grace to follow him. It was not any merit of my own that caused him to save me. I, like the entire human race, am completely depraved in my sin, and any goodness I posses comes from God. Jesus is my Savior. He will always be there for me, even if I turn my back on him.

By the way, when is this going to be on TV? And is it on a channel that is available in Michigan? I would be very interested in seeing it. I hope you get all the info you need. You could probably even use some of content of our disagreeing posts as content (for instance different people views on God allowing harm to come to people.) Well, good luck with your show.

-Scribs

[mitsuki lover]

Again I feel we need to focus as much on Jesus as Man as Jesus as God to get an
adequate answer.Since Jesus is both fully Human and fully God we cannot fully
understand him with understanding both.
Unfortunately it seems like we are only focusing on what we feel about Jesus as
God here.Should we not also focus on Jesus as Man?
As I said before before we can understand Jesus as God we need to come to grips as to what he was like as Man.
To put it bluntly I see Jesus as being the Perfect Example of what Man was created
to be,totally in fellowship with both God and his fellow man.
This was one of the reasons why he was born,to set the Perfect Example of how
we should relate to God and others.
I am not saying this was the sole or most important reason,but it is one of them.
So in this extent I would say Jesus is our perfect example.
(Note:I do agree that the important part of Jesus' life was his willingness to
act as the Perfect Sacrifice for Sin,but before that he had to set the Perfect
Example so that we could learn it was not impossible to please and enjoy God.)

[~Natsumi Lam~]

Now that was the kinda answer i was looking for!!!

Thanks Scribs and ML:)

~NL~

[Mave]

There are some differing opinions and hesitation in the beginning (i.e. the questions to clarify the objective of the thread), which is good because this has got ppl thinking and considering the question seriously.

IMO, everyone has been sharing their thoughts/opinions in a very civil and respectful manner (proud of you guys actually ). Knowing Kae and UC, they aren't being argumentative and I doubt sharing opposing views in this manner would get this thread close. So yeah, I wouldn't be worried by what has been posted so far, NL.

[holysoldier5000]

He is the truth, he is reality, he is the key to life. "In him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge," (Colossians 2:3)."Well," someone says, "how do you know that? How do you know you are not performing an act of blind faith without any supporting evidence at all? You say you believe in Jesus, but you have accepted him as the authority without any evidence to support it. That's blind faith." But that is not what a Christian does. Christian faith is not blind faith. When we believe Christ is the truth, we believe it because he demonstrated he was the truth. We need to put it on that basis.

How did he demonstrate that he was the truth? First, by what he said. Read the things he said. Incomparable things! He gave the clearest insights into what human life was about ever given in the hearing of men. Even his enemies say so. No one ever saw so clearly as he, no one ever probed so deeply or put his finger so precisely upon the elements which make up human life and thinking. In what he said you can see he spoke the truth. "No one ever spake like this man," (John 7:46)

But not only that, he demonstrated the truth by what he did. This New Testament record is an amazing account of mighty deeds and historic events. Miracles? Yes, there are evidences of the intrusion of the spiritual kingdom -- that invisible realm of reality -- into the visible realm. He capped it all, of course, by showing that he had solved the one problem which is insoluble to every other man -- the problem of death. He rose from the dead! Who else has ever done anything like that? What other philosopher, what other thinker, what other man who has ever challenged men has ever done anything like that -- solved that basic problem of life? That is why I know Jesus Christ is the truth, because he solved the problem of death.

This, by the way, is why the enemies of the Scriptures fight so fiercely to destroy the historicity of these events, if they can. They want us to think it does not matter whether these things were historically true. Of course they are historically true, and of course it greatly matters, for these events demonstrate that Jesus was the truth.

But it is not only by what he said and what he did, but further, by what he is. Bring this into the present. What has he been to you? What has he been to others? Look back at your own Christian life and its beginnings. Did he deliver you? Has he set you free? Has he broken any chains in your life? Has he been your friend? Has he brought you back into balance and harmony? It has been pointed out that through the centuries men have been calling on others for help. You may lack courage and call on a great contemporary hero to help you, but nothing happens. You may lack wisdom and call on one of the great philosophers of the day. Or, lacking eloquence, you may cry, "Shakespeare, help me!" But no help comes. Yet for twenty centuries men and women in desperate plight have been calling our, "Lord Jesus Christ, help me" -- and help is given! Deliverance comes! That is how we know he is the truth.

Remember that all conflicting systems and philosophies must be tested at all points, not just at one. Many philosophies can do something. Ah, yes, many systems which basically are wrong still can help in a limited area. They can help somewhere, they can accomplish some good. But, my Christian friends, we must learn that this is never the mark of truth. Because something does some good is no mark of truth. Truth is a complete entity. Truth is reality, the way things really are. Therefore it is the explanation of all things. You know you have found the truth when you find something which is wide enough and deep enough and high enough to encompass all things. That is what Jesus Christ does.

Further, ultimate reality never changes. Here is another mark. Truth never needs updating, never needs to be modernized. If something was true ten thousand years ago, it is still true today. If it is true today, it was true a hundred thousand years ago. Truth does not need updating.

I delight in the story of the man to came to his old friend, a music teacher, and said to him in that flippant way we moderns use, "What's the good news today?" The old man never said a word. He walked across the room, picked up a hammer and struck a tuning fork. As the note sounded out through the room, he said, "That is 'A.' It is 'A' today, it was 'A' five thousand years ago, and it will be 'A' ten thousand years from now. The soprano upstairs sings off-key, the tenor across the hall flats his high notes, and the piano downstairs is out of tune." He struck the note again, and said, "That is 'A,' my friend, and that's the good news for today!" That is what Jesus Christ is -- unchanging. He is "the same yesterday, today, and forever," (Hebrews 13:8). That is how you know you have truth.

On Christ the solid rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

God Bless
~HS5K

[uc pseudonym]

come on guys... dont get this thread locked...

For the record, this thread is not really that close to being locked. People have been rather civil so far, and we haven't uncovered any theological black holes.

All i wanted was your personal take on the "Nature of Jesus". So that i could put it in my presentation.... THAT WILL BE ON TV.

It might have been a good idea to be clearer from the start. I, at least, did not fully understand your intent.

As for uc pseudonym i am sorry you dont see the usefulness of this,

Ah, there has been miscommunication. I felt that the debate of the specific phrasing of the question was no longer useful to this thread, not that the thread itself had no purpose.

[Android raptor]

I'm sure many of you know my religious convictions, however, I do think Jesus might have been a real person. But I don't think he was *cough* white *cough*, unlike some people (KKK). I think he was middle Eastern. Since that was where he was born...

[steelbeliever]

having read the other posts and some of the small conflicts...i feel it is best for me to make my statement as short as possible...i must admit i did not fully see the usefulness of this thread...but it does have its uses...to a certain extent...not being an expert on any theological subjects...i will write this as eloquently as possible so that you will understand...

i am stressing this a lot right now...but i am having serious issues...and i had to basically stop my life...delete it...and start over...emotionally speaking...during this time period of transition...i have discovered something that i believe i had forgotten or rather buried under the baggage of my life...Jesus means more to me than anything...not my friends...my family...my future career...nothing...he is the only reason i live right now...and i fully mean this...he is the only reason i am still alive...he is the source of all i have...most of the time...i spend my days kind of floating from one thing to another...i can't feel anything...without Jesus...i have no sense of balance...i don't exist without him...this is not some blown-up attention grabber...i just feel the need to say that i'm nothing without him...when i say i can't imagine life without him...i mean it...suicide has crossed my mind...but he was there in the back of my mind keeping me here...he's my roots and my wings...he's the ultimate love...and that's all i know...

~God Bless~

G.S.