secular music

[steelbeliever]

i listen to a lot of secular/mainstream bands myself...but jsut wondering...as christians is it wrong for us to listen to these kinds of bands?

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

It depends what values the songs conveys and whether there is language or something like that. I listen to some secular music but its pretty mild stuff - Led Zepplin, Delta Goodrem, Evanescence - stuff like that. There is a lot of crap out there that you shouldn't fill your head with. But as a whole I think listening to some secular music is fine.

[Hitokiri]

On what soldier4Christ said, it all depends if it affects your spiritual life. For example, I listen to some bands that don't have the most...uplifting lyrics (Lamb of God, In Flames, Children of Bodom). However, I know who is the real God and whom triumphs over evil. I feel strong enough in my faith that lyrics such as these don't affect me spirutually.

I think it goes with everything: video games, anime, sports, movies, music, etc. If you get to the point of obsession and affects you spiritually, I think it's a good time to focus less on them and more on God.

[starfire]

I believe that, ultimately, you have to "Listen to Your Heart" (forgive me 4 that one!) I heard once that sin is doing something you feel is wrong. So, if you listen to a band that you don't feel is bad, but at the same time isn't gospel music, I think it's okay. Now there are boundaries. Obviously a song in which the majority of the lyrics are dubbed over with *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* isn't the best thing.

[xCAFx]

Well this issue or topic has sparked alot of different views and things. But what i think is that you should try to judge also if the music is possitive or negative. There is nothing wrong with listening to Secular music. Its realy stupid how people can shoot other people down because of listening to something secular because its not of God. Well if that were the case than you shouldn't play video games cause they arent christian. Or watch Movies or anything. Like what Shatterheart(sorry if i butchered your name! )said, you should judge your music like you judge your games and movies and stuff. It is good to listen to Christian music(and not just the pop fluff). I myself listen to mostly all Christain except for a few secular bands like Unearth. Sometimes you should really just trust God and your convictions. Well... thats about it!

[Michael]

For the most part; I prefer secular music to Christian music. Mostly because the majority of the Christian music I've heard is nothing but a cleaned up replica of the original. There are certainly a lot of secular bands I won't listen too, but I'm more tolerant than some Christian's might be. Sevendust is probably the most "on edge" I like, but even they are a far cry from the worst.

[Kkun]

On what soldier4Christ said, it all depends if it affects your spiritual life. For example, I listen to some bands that don't have the most...uplifting lyrics (Lamb of God, In Flames, Children of Bodom). However, I know who is the real God and whom triumphs over evil. I feel strong enough in my faith that lyrics such as these don't affect me spirutually.

I think it goes with everything: video games, anime, sports, movies, music, etc. If you get to the point of obsession and affects you spiritually, I think it's a good time to focus less on them and more on God.

I would have to agree. I listen to a couple of secular bands here and there, while the majority of the music I listen to is Christian. However, I don't think it's necessarily wrong for Christians to listen to secular music but I think the content and your maturity as a Christian come into play in determining what you can handle. However, I would not condone going out and listening to, say, Slipknot or Eminem because their lyrics are generally vile beyond any redeeming quality, regardless of whether or not you think you can handle it.

The big thing is just pray about it and ask the Lord if you should be listening to something or not, also.

[beau99]

Hey,

I listen to Nine Inch Nails (which is all Trent Reznor), and his lyrics are definitely not Christian.

Just depends on if you can handle it or not.

I can handle it just fine. Plus I find most "Christian" music to be lyrically and musically awful anyway.

[Kkun]

Hey,

I listen to Nine Inch Nails (which is all Trent Reznor), and his lyrics are definitely not Christian.

Just depends on if you can handle it or not.

I can handle it just fine. Plus I find most "Christian" music to be lyrically and musically awful anyway.

See, now, while I agree with the "just depends on if you can handle it or not", I find the comment about Christian music to be absolutely wrong. Have you ever read the lyrics to songs written by Christian Lindskog, Andrew Schwab, Reese Roper, Sufjan Stevens, Jason Martin, Brother Danielson, Josh Dies, Aaron Weiss, Ian Eskelin, Josh Scogin, and a host of many others? I doubt it. Christian music has improved so much over the years and gets a bad rap because of the mainstream CCM stuff. A lot of the indie-Christian stuff on labels like Tooth and Nail/Solid State, Mono vs Stereo, Danielson Famile...I would put up against any mainstream artist.

[beau99]

See, now, while I agree with the "just depends on if you can handle it or not", I find the comment about Christian music to be absolutely wrong. Have you ever read the lyrics to songs written by Christian Lindskog,

Of course I have. I promote Blindside on just about every forum I'm a member of.

Andrew Schwab,

I've heard some of Project 86's music, and while it's lyrically OK, I can't stand it musically.

Reese Roper, Sufjan Stevens, Jason Martin, Brother Danielson, Josh Dies, Aaron Weiss, Ian Eskelin, Josh Scogin, and a host of many others? I doubt it.

Correct on them, except for Roper, who I can't stand.

Christian music has improved so much over the years and gets a bad rap because of the mainstream CCM stuff. A lot of the indie-Christian stuff on labels like Tooth and Nail/Solid State, Mono vs Stereo, Danielson Famile...I would put up against any mainstream artist.

If Blindside was still on Solid State, I'd agree.

[ShiroiHikari]

How come Reese Roper gets no love?

Anyway, I don't listen to a lot of Christian stuff anymore because it's mostly hardcore stuff that I don't really like. Still, it's not that it's BAD music. It's just not for me. I admit that the stuff being made now is way better than the older stuff.

I'll listen to pretty much any music so long as the lyrics aren't overly sexual in nature or otherwise trashy. I also don't like it when lyrics are really political or just plain dumb. And above all, I can't stand it when they take potshots at God in music.

Other than that...well...I watch movies that are worse content-wise than a lot of music, so it'd be kinda hypocritical of me to say "eww this music has bad words in it so it's evil". ^_^;

...It's late and I'm rambling. o.o

[Ichigo_89]

Most of what I listen to is christian music besides, what I like to call, neutral music like opera & anime soundtracks. But I want to branch out some and find a few good secular bands.

But yah, some christian bands are quite able defend their turf when compared to secular (Becoming The Archetype and Switchfoot comes to mind...)

[PumpkinKoRn52]

Yes, I have decided to resurface. The infamous is back.

Now to the subject at hand.
It's perfectly fine to listen to secular music. In fact, that's about all I listen too. I can't help it that 90% of christian bands suck, and no good christian bands can actually make it to the recording studio without selling out. If you think it's wrong to listen to secular music, don't listen to it. Just as long as you force that on everyone else.

[K. Ayato]

It all comes down to what you can handle and personal preference. I like some (but not all) Christian music that comes out, but I also like some '60s rock like the Beatles. Most of the time in my car I'm constantly changing stations from the Christian station Air1 to the local oldies stations.

[Kkun]

Yes, I have decided to resurface. The infamous is back.

Now to the subject at hand.
It's perfectly fine to listen to secular music. In fact, that's about all I listen too. I can't help it that 90% of christian bands suck, and no good christian bands can actually make it to the recording studio without selling out. If you think it's wrong to listen to secular music, don't listen to it. Just as long as you force that on everyone else.

Dude, I was wondering where you'd disappeared to. I used to be aku_soku_zan. Welcome back.

Anyway, 90% of Christian bands suck? How do you figure that? And selling out? Who, in recent memory has sold out?

[PumpkinKoRn52]

Dude, I was wondering where you'd disappeared to. I used to be aku_soku_zan. Welcome back.


Anyway, 90% of Christian bands suck? How do you figure that? And selling out? Who, in recent memory has sold out?

Yeah, I'm back now. I've been gone for so long because I've had a bunch of crap going on in my life dragging me down. I'm not better now, but I no longer care about my own well-being. I'm just drudging through life now.

Anyway, 90% is just a rough generalization. I can count all the good christian bands on my fingers. One band who has sold out recently is pillar. They used to be real good, but man, thier new cd blows. And the other sell-outs are almost every new christian band. They get a label if they play what their produces tell them too.

[Kkun]

Yeah, I'm back now. I've been gone for so long because I've had a bunch of crap going on in my life dragging me down. I'm not better now, but I no longer care about my own well-being. I'm just drudging through life now.

Anyway, 90% is just a rough generalization. I can count all the good christian bands on my fingers. One band who has sold out recently is pillar. They used to be real good, but man, thier new cd blows. And the other sell-outs are almost every new christian band. They get a label if they play what their produces tell them too.

You know, I agree about Pillar, but I dunno if I'd say Pillar sold out, so much as got...worse. Can you name specific other bands that have sold out?

I mean, some people have said Switchfoot have sold out, but I don't think that's true at all. Blindside has definitely NOT sold out. In fact, they've grown more bold spiritually on their new album than they have been before. I don't think that that many Christian bands have sold out after going mainstream.

[Stephen]

Uh oh, here comes Shatterheart. ^^ Secular music is not evil, if you think that...or have been told that...welcome to the magical world of brainwashing. Think of it this way, do you limit yourself to only Christian TV, Christian movies, or Christian sporting events? No. If your not convicted by somthing, its fine. Now, as far as Christian music goes? Yes, much of it does indeed suck. Why you ask? Because rather then do there own original thing...many Christian lables spend all there time trying to find the Christian verson of Kelly Clarkson, Linkin Park, or Korn. Christian music has never been about individuality...its been about cookie cutter replacement. Now thats not always the case...there are very uniqe Christian bands....but for the most part...CCM is nothing but a big business peddled by Churches to support "brothers and sisters" in Christ. Its not even really about Jesus or faith anymore...its about making money for Christians. Now, for selling out? Yeah. Pillar did. I really hate the term selling out...because I think many bands change as they grow. Switchfoot changed big time, as did POD, as did Chevelle. Many bands as they get larger change lyrics, change sound...its part of bands. If you don't like it, don't buy there CD. I guess it depends on your interpretation of the term "sold out" If changing lyrics to suit larger masses is deemed selling out...then 99% of cross over bands sell out. *shrug* The Shatterheart has spoken.

[Nu-En-Jin]

Uh oh, here comes Shatterheart. ^^ Secular music is not evil, if you think that...or have been told that...welcome to the magical world of brainwashing.

Conversely- you could go let the radio and MTV and purevolume tell you what's good too... welcome to the secular world of brainwashing... Aaaand- counterpoint!

Now, as far as Christian music goes? Yes, much of it does indeed suck. Why you ask? Because rather then do there own original thing...many Christian lables spend all there time trying to find the Christian verson of Kelly Clarkson, Linkin Park, or Korn. Christian music has never been about individuality...its been about cookie cutter replacement..

Amen, sir! I applaud you and point other directly to the awesomeness of Mute Math, Sleeping at Last, Showbread, Psalters, Pedro the Lion, mewithoutyou, and House of Heroes.

If changing lyrics to suit larger masses is deemed selling out...then 99% of cross over bands sell out.

Indeed! If the message is Jesus, and the message is effective- in the face of eternity, isn't that all that matters?
Secular or not- if the lyrics and the heart of it all is self-righteous, or self-loathing, God-bashing, or God-cheerleading, with a wordly label, or a legalistically Christian one...
Jesus in- Jesus out.
Rubbish in- rubbish out.
* the En-Jin has spoken *

Oh... p.s.
Those of you who think you can "handle" the vile lyrics and obvious worldly message shoved down your throat by those talented (and going to hell, btw... pray for them!) artists you defend so vehemently- just remember someone else who thought they could "handle" a little self-righteous compromise, throughout Scripture...
In the books of Joshua and Judges, God told the Israelites to wipe out every inhabitant of Caanan, and take the land for themselves, as God had promised them. The inhabitants were vile beyond saving, and God had given even them, chances to repent. In the end, though, they failed to drive out everyone, but instead, thought they could "handle" a little compromising of what God told them to do away with completely. They put these Caananites and such into submission, and ruled over them, and demanded tribute (taxes, an offering of their riches, etc.).
In the end, this compromise lead to Israel falling away from the Lord, chasing after false gods and idols, and eventually coming into slavery of that very sin they thought they could "handle".
The Lord sent deliverers, the "Judges" or as better translated from the original Hebrew- "Heroes", to save them, over and over again.
Comromise a little bit...
Give in to the sin itself...
Become enslaved to it....
Cry out to God...
He delivers you...
You walk with Him....
Comromise a little bit....
and on and on and on....
There are amazingly talented people in the mainstream music industry.
There are also some in Christian music.
Pray for both, that Jesus would reign supreme, regardless.

[Stephen]

Conversely- you could go let the radio and MTV and purevolume tell you what's good too... welcome to the secular world of brainwashing... Aaaand- counterpoint!

Actaully, if you want to play... You totaly missed my point. Thats not a counter point, thats skimming, or not paying attention. My point is, people who run around labling all secular music is evil are fools. Please, if your going to pick at my posts...at least read them.

[steelbeliever]

i don't lsiten to chrsitian radio, watch christian tv shows or any of that...i don't think it's evil or anything to listen to secular music cuz i do...a lot of christian bands are pretty lame i'll admit...but i was just kind of curious to know what you guys thought...i mean...i don't listen to stuff that's really over the edge...but i like heavy metal and lots of my friends think its wrong as a christian to lsiten to heavy metal...i really don't believe that either...

[Nu-En-Jin]

Actaully, if you want to play... You totaly missed my point. Thats not a counter point, thats skimming, or not paying attention. My point is, people who run around labling all secular music is evil are fools. Please, if your going to pick at my posts...at least read them.

Actually, I don't want to play, but I can, I suppose...
I must apologize if it seemed to you that I ignored, in whole or part, your previous posting. I assure you this is not the case.
Nor was I attempting to be contrary by any means. My fault if there was confusion in referrence to the "counterpoint" remark. I was actually inviting a counterpoint to my statement, not making one about yours. Again I apologize for not presenting myself more clearly.
Your point about how pervasive the stigma that there is good and evil in music based entirely upon labels like Christian or secular is a true one. Your wholesale shunting of people who have such a viewpoint as "brainwashed" is more than a little harsh, though.
They label all secular music as evil... you label them as fools.
They make a choice to bravely apply Phillippians 4:8, and take their listening habits in hand, not be swayed by the allure of the world. However, when someone stands up and tells us we're wrong for listening to a particular band, we get all defensive, as if it mattered in the end!
Look at the heart of the person challenging you on your music, and if they're doing it in love, to try and caution you against allowing trash into your ears, then take it, consider it, and do whatever the Lord tells you to.
If they come against you and the music because they like to strut about as if they're better or more holy than you, then disregard, and pray the Lord would bless them, and keep them, and give them His joy (Matthew 5:44).
In the end, sir, I am sorry that my heart of encouragement and challenge in love didn't come through as I had hoped.
In the end, regardless of opinion or viewpoint on this or any other issue, if you and I have Jesus, we're going to Heaven together.

[Hitokiri]

Personally, as a Christian, you should not be against Christian music. I really dislike the music Toby Mac or SuperChick does but I still support them cause they are trying to put thier talent God gave them to use. For Christian bands, I think, that the main thing they should be about is thier faith and not the music.

I main not like thier style of music but I will support the band.

but i like heavy metal and lots of my friends think its wrong as a christian to lsiten to heavy metal...i really don't believe that either...

Show your friends the lyrics to Extol's Undecieved or Mortal Treason's Sunrise Over a Sea of Blood . Some of them are practically worship-type lyrics.

[Sephiroth]

i think there is nothing wrong with listening to secular music. Indeed there are alot of bands out there that should be avoided, but they make up only a part of secular music as a whole, i listen to alot more secular bands than Christian ones, while i like alot of Christian bands, like Five Iron Frenzy etc. just because, well like their sound, etc. better.

playing off of shatterhearts illustration somewhat.. do you only eat food made from Christian owned stores? do you only socialise wiht Christians? and so forth, its not about whether the people in the band are Christian or not, music is music. It there for ppl to enjoy.

[steelbeliever]

i think there is nothing wrong with listening to secular music. Indeed there are alot of bands out there that should be avoided, but they make up only a part of secular music as a whole, i listen to alot more secular bands than Christian ones, while i like alot of Christian bands, like Five Iron Frenzy etc. just because, well like their sound, etc. better.

playing off of shatterhearts illustration somewhat.. do you only eat food made from Christian owned stores? do you only socialise wiht Christians? and so forth, its not about whether the people in the band are Christian or not, music is music. It there for ppl to enjoy.

i agree...

[Warrior4Christ]

Personally, as a Christian, you should not be against Christian music. I really dislike the music Toby Mac or SuperChick does but I still support them cause they are trying to put thier talent God gave them to use. For Christian bands, I think, that the main thing they should be about is thier faith and not the music.

I main not like thier style of music but I will support the band.

I agree with this comment.

As others have said, listening to secular music is okay, but openly anti-Christian music should be approached with caution...

[Stephen]

They label all secular music as evil... you label them as fools.
They make a choice to bravely apply Phillippians 4:8, and take their listening habits in hand, not be swayed by the allure of the world. However, when someone stands up and tells us we're wrong for listening to a particular band, we get all defensive, as if it mattered in the end!

Maybe I am assuming. Do you speak English? Is it your first language? (I am serious) In two posts, you still have yet to see my point...I am starting to think its a lost cause to even try to explain. For the sake of clarity, I will repeat this again. If you lable ALL secular music as evil. You are indeed a fool. Just like labling it all as fine and exceptable would make you foolish. See my point yet? Or should I just give up?

[PumpkinKoRn52]

Maybe I am assuming. Do you speak English? Is it your first language? (I am serious) In two posts, you still have yet to see my point...I am starting to think its a lost cause to even try to explain. For the sake of clarity, I will repeat this again. If you lable ALL secular music as evil. You are indeed a fool. Just like labling it all as fine and exceptable would make you foolish. See my point yet? Or should I just give up?

Even I agree with you man. That's saying something.

[Mave]

Uh oh, here comes Shatterheart. ^^ Secular music is not evil, if you think that...or have been told that...welcome to the magical world of brainwashing.

Conversely- you could go let the radio and MTV and purevolume tell you what's good too... welcome to the secular world of brainwashing...

I agree with both points of view since they apply to both ends of the opinion range. You can be brainwashed to either point of view. I'm not sure how this discussion spiralled towards the way it did but let's try to be patient with each other.

In the case of choice of music, I generally go back to personal conviction. As long as the music doesn't 1) affect yourself spiritually (EDIT: in a negative sense) and 2) cause others to stumble, that's good enough for me. So yeah, I do listen to secular music but I do make selective choices.

[xCAFx]

For me again i listen to Secular im just very causcious(sorry couldn't spell that word!) about what i pick. There are some bands that i just will not listen too;i don't care how good they are. Im not judging or condeming anybody in any way, but i just think sometimes we take it TOO far.

For instance i read an interview with Crimson Moonlight(a Christian Death/Black Metal band) and they were the only (Chrsitian) Black(or Death) Metal band that didn't say that they listened to Cradile Of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Emporer, or any of the other Satanic(or blatently Anti-Christ) or Satanically influenced bands like that. Now that for me(listening to that) is too far.

Much like the "Otaku defending such bad Anime" thread lots of people still listen to what they started out on. And im not saying a metal band can't be posistive and Ok to listen to, but i just think that i could be putting something less vile and discussting than Slipknot or something into my head.