problem with discipleship vs. glitz
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problem with discipleship vs. glitz
Last night (9/19/05) I went before the Board of Trustees of my church to propose a new youth program for the church. The idea of the program was to get kids interested in serving God and help them feel like they are a part of the church. The kids in the class I teach really don’t feel like members of the church and I proposed a plan to change that last night. It was a call for the members of the church to take a more active role in the youth ministry and to take time out to care for these kids and show these kids love. To turn their hearts to the next generation and turn the church into a hospital for broken hearts, a home for the lost, and a place where teenagers are exited to come learn, serve, and grow in the Lord. Well I met stern opposition to this proposal last night. The opponents of the idea believed that the church did not need a church ministry for teenagers, even though they admit that we do not have a succesful ministry as it is. This was quite a shock! These opponents were the same people who called for me to come up with a plan for revising the youth ministry. I soon learned that they had an agenda. They wanted the teens to go to other church groups too enjoy the glitz and glamour of “fun activitiesâ€
Live your life, love the Lord, and don't forget to laugh...
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holysoldier5000 - Posts: 771
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 am
- Location: Off the page of the map... here there be monsters!
Absolutely HS5000! I will definately pray for you and your churches decision. Connecting youth is vital if any church ever hopes to survive. If we dont dont teach and show kids Gods love, how can we expect them to know it, let alone teach it them selves one day!?
Our chruch is made up primarily of an elderly congregation, and its easy to see the lines between the different age groups. Instead of the elderly/mature members of the church reaching out to guide/mentor the young, they shun them as wreckless and obnoxious. Their theory is "let them grow up first" but the 'Growing up' is just what they could use help with!
*sigh*
My heart is definately with you on this one.
-kaji
Our chruch is made up primarily of an elderly congregation, and its easy to see the lines between the different age groups. Instead of the elderly/mature members of the church reaching out to guide/mentor the young, they shun them as wreckless and obnoxious. Their theory is "let them grow up first" but the 'Growing up' is just what they could use help with!
*sigh*
My heart is definately with you on this one.
-kaji
Depend on it. God's work done in God's way will never lack God's supply. He is too wise a God to frustrate His purposes for lack of funds, and He can just as easily supply them ahead of time as afterwards, and He much prefers doing so.
- J. Hudson Taylor
- J. Hudson Taylor
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I remember that one fateful day when Coach took me aside. I knew what was coming. "You don't have to tell me," I said. "I'm off the team, aren't I?" "Well," said Coach, "you never were really ON the team. You made that uniform you're wearing out of rags and towels, and your helmet is a toy space helmet. You show up at practice and then either steal the ball and make us chase you to get it back, or you try to tackle people at inappropriate times." It was all true what he was saying. And yet, I thought something is brewing inside the head of this Coach. He sees something in me, some kind of raw talent that he can mold. But that's when I felt the handcuffs go on.
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kaji - Posts: 1281
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:09 am
- Location: Chicago
Hey, friend.
May I just start by saying "thank you for standing up for youth." I know you will be rewarded by God for stickin' your neck out like this.
Furthermore, I sort of came through a program where the object seemed to be to keep us busy and give us minimal training or discipleship (a.k.a They played a game, then they told us "Get on fire for God. Yipeee. Wasn't that great. Let's close in prayer.") Coming from that, and having talked to some who went through that, it's a disastrous alternative. It leaves you thinking that all there is to God is what you received at your youth group: Temporary enjoyment but, finally, just another low after a high.
You might want to point out to the board that if they cart off your youth to fun camp where they'll be kept busy and kept from a deeper understanding of the gospel and the kind of love that Christ gives, you won't have a church after this generation. The only way that we as Christians can ensure (to the best of our ability) the survival of the church is to mentor, love, and firmly ground the youth in our churches now.
I'll be praying very fervently about this. I'd really like to know how this turns out, so post a follow-up here or PM me, if you don't mind. Thanks !
May I just start by saying "thank you for standing up for youth." I know you will be rewarded by God for stickin' your neck out like this.
Furthermore, I sort of came through a program where the object seemed to be to keep us busy and give us minimal training or discipleship (a.k.a They played a game, then they told us "Get on fire for God. Yipeee. Wasn't that great. Let's close in prayer.") Coming from that, and having talked to some who went through that, it's a disastrous alternative. It leaves you thinking that all there is to God is what you received at your youth group: Temporary enjoyment but, finally, just another low after a high.
You might want to point out to the board that if they cart off your youth to fun camp where they'll be kept busy and kept from a deeper understanding of the gospel and the kind of love that Christ gives, you won't have a church after this generation. The only way that we as Christians can ensure (to the best of our ability) the survival of the church is to mentor, love, and firmly ground the youth in our churches now.
I'll be praying very fervently about this. I'd really like to know how this turns out, so post a follow-up here or PM me, if you don't mind. Thanks !
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Mangafanatic - Posts: 4918
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: In La-La land.
I'll be praying too. Thanks for pointing out that teen ministry is not focused on having fun.
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
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K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
I completely agree! Having fun is nice, but it gets tedious real quick when that's all that is happening. Also, while laughing and hanging out with friends is important to boost your selfconfidence, it would be much better in the long run for us (youth) to develop Godly characteristics and to deepen our faith more. In a society that is hell-bent (literally) on pleasure, we Christian Youth should be standing and shining God's truth all the more!
Edit: Btw, I forgot to say... I'll be praying
Edit: Btw, I forgot to say... I'll be praying
- Hephzibah
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Australia
Holysoldier... I support your movement 100%
I'll tell you right now, where would I be without the youth group I went to (and continue to go every friday) 3 years ago.... Cause sunday church sermons were just no fun.... But the friday night youth pastor: Pastor Kelly. He got me sucked in right into God, and I accepted Jesus Christ. I don't believe that a formal "Sunday Service" wouldn't of been as effective towards me, as the friday nights were teenager oriented
infact, this is what you could do. Share some peoples testamonies of how youth group settings helped them greatly! Like mine!
See, games, food, fun. THAT is what attracts children and teenagers. Just like in Poland, if our programs weren't fun. If we didn't have games and fun dances and dramas and fun leaders. The children in Poland wouldn't of came to our programs. See what we did was First we advertised the night programs (with dances and dramas) THEN during the night program, we had games and fun and contests. And some dances and dramas. THEN Had someone speak about Jesus. And after that we'd all have barbeque.
And what our youth group is like. It's just full of kids, starts around 8 AM. we have worship (pretty dark room cause dark rooms are so cool) and lights on the band and whatnot. And I mean the pastor will speak. A really good and FUNNY speaker is what attracts teenagers. And like a cafe and videogames and stuff.... stuff that kids like, BUT it is critical that they get something out of the fun. They get Jesus. Or ought to atleast
See, FUN is what attracts many children into Church, and fun is what kids want in Church. That is why sunday service doesn't appeal to them. They get nothing out of sundays. "Why go to a boring place every sunday?" If you have a cool youth service. They'll go "Dude! they got a cafe, a hilarious speaker, and stuff" Emphasize that to them. That fun and cool music and bands and videogaming and pizza and soda can attract kids to church. Because it's church, AND fun. Well more fun than sundays atleast
SOON! SOON! Soon they will start going to the sunday service. If they are high in their faith and belief from going to the youth group/ministry a lot, they will begin to understand going to sunday service. And they will get much out of that too.
I'll tell you right now, where would I be without the youth group I went to (and continue to go every friday) 3 years ago.... Cause sunday church sermons were just no fun.... But the friday night youth pastor: Pastor Kelly. He got me sucked in right into God, and I accepted Jesus Christ. I don't believe that a formal "Sunday Service" wouldn't of been as effective towards me, as the friday nights were teenager oriented
infact, this is what you could do. Share some peoples testamonies of how youth group settings helped them greatly! Like mine!
See, games, food, fun. THAT is what attracts children and teenagers. Just like in Poland, if our programs weren't fun. If we didn't have games and fun dances and dramas and fun leaders. The children in Poland wouldn't of came to our programs. See what we did was First we advertised the night programs (with dances and dramas) THEN during the night program, we had games and fun and contests. And some dances and dramas. THEN Had someone speak about Jesus. And after that we'd all have barbeque.
And what our youth group is like. It's just full of kids, starts around 8 AM. we have worship (pretty dark room cause dark rooms are so cool) and lights on the band and whatnot. And I mean the pastor will speak. A really good and FUNNY speaker is what attracts teenagers. And like a cafe and videogames and stuff.... stuff that kids like, BUT it is critical that they get something out of the fun. They get Jesus. Or ought to atleast
See, FUN is what attracts many children into Church, and fun is what kids want in Church. That is why sunday service doesn't appeal to them. They get nothing out of sundays. "Why go to a boring place every sunday?" If you have a cool youth service. They'll go "Dude! they got a cafe, a hilarious speaker, and stuff" Emphasize that to them. That fun and cool music and bands and videogaming and pizza and soda can attract kids to church. Because it's church, AND fun. Well more fun than sundays atleast
SOON! SOON! Soon they will start going to the sunday service. If they are high in their faith and belief from going to the youth group/ministry a lot, they will begin to understand going to sunday service. And they will get much out of that too.
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Mr. SmartyPants - Posts: 12541
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:00 am
i know how ya feel...i have been in churches where all they care about is giving the teens something to do...the teenagers don't even go to the regular service...they split into "small groups"...it's frustrating when they treat the teens like toddlers and send them off to children's time...i'll be praying...it's hard but you're gonna make a difference...
S.B.
S.B.
you're just a line in a song
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steelbeliever - Posts: 150
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:16 pm
Lifting you up. I can tell from your posts that you seem to really have a heart for ministry and for reaching the youth. May God bless you for your heart to serve Him and others, and may He bless your efforts to reach others for Him.
Theme Scripture: Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. (Galatians 5:1)
And a verse for all us single folks: Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? (1 Corinthians 9:5)
Looking for a GOOD music mix? Check out these stations:
Grey FM Heartland -- a mix of Country and Contemporary Christian music (Listen Now!)
Grey FM Downtown -- a mix of mainstream and Christian pop and rock music (Listen Now!)
More real stuff...
And a verse for all us single folks: Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? (1 Corinthians 9:5)
Looking for a GOOD music mix? Check out these stations:
Grey FM Heartland -- a mix of Country and Contemporary Christian music (Listen Now!)
Grey FM Downtown -- a mix of mainstream and Christian pop and rock music (Listen Now!)
More real stuff...
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freerock1 - Posts: 841
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:14 pm
- Location: In your computer speakers, if you're listening to ChargeRadio.com
I'm behind you 110%. Teenagers should not be pandered to--they are soon-to-become-adults, and should be treated as such, so they can become active in their chosen fields of ministry and be on fire for God.
I'll be praying that your proposition goes through.
I'll be praying that your proposition goes through.
[
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Maledicte - Posts: 2078
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:39 pm
UPDATE (9/26/05)
I have some good news and bad news.
The bad news is that situation is becoming grimmer with the opposition. The biggest opponent to the teen ministry revision is the previous youth leader. Since my first post on this topic I have learned that she has let the sin of bitterness sink to far in her heart. It is a very sad situation. She lost both her boys from the church when she had the helm. She encouraged these big flashy events over building disciples of the faith and now her two sons have recently left the church for these glitzy events she advocated, and she is angry at the church for this. She and her husband blame the church for not being what her sons wanted and that is why their kids left the church. She also lost the leadership of the youth group by a chance of fate when she had to leave to take care of her sick mother. (That is when she asked me to takeover.) Now, that her mother recently died, she is a since free to come back, and it appears she wants to come back, only the problem is I am in the way. Under her watch the youth group died and we lost youth from the church. Under my watch the youth group has tripled and we have gained youth to the church. I say this not out of pride but as praise for what God has used me, an unworthy servant, to accomplish. The students don’t want me to leave, and neither does the church. So it does not look like the former youth leader will be getting the helm back anytime soon. And this is where the bitterness is spilling over. She is trying to turn the youth against me. She is filling their heads with thoughts of how useless the S.O.S. Teen Ministry by comparing it to bigger flasher groups. And her poison is working! My best student has now turned against me and sided with the former youth leader. Now she is the only one of twelve students, but the former youth leader is trying to rally more to her position, and all under the church’s disapproval. So the issue of the former leader is going to be dealt with, but not by me. It is now a matter for the church, and the board of trustees will deal with it. So I just ask prayer that my church will do the right thing in dealing with the former leader. And I also ask prayer for the former leader. She has become a very bitter person and I just ask that the Lord will able to peel away the anger and resentment before in consumes her heart.
The good news comes from the fact that three of my students are really getting into participating with the S.O.S. Teen Ministry (the youth group I lead). One of them in particular has sort of been my project over the last year. A year ago she was the troublemaker in the church, the one that people would just shake their head at, but not me. I have ministered to this girl for a year now and this past week was a major breakthrough. It is just amazing to see how God has reached into her life and changed the once troublemaker into a follower hungry to know God more. It is just awesome! Now she is heading up the leadership team in their drive to make the S.O.S. Teen Ministry a successful Christian outreach for the Lord. It is just too awesome! And I praise God for the awesome things He is doing in these students lives!
So I will continue to do what I am doing here, ministering, and helping the youth develop a closer walk with God. I ask for prayers for me and for the youth.
God Bless
~HS5K
I have some good news and bad news.
The bad news is that situation is becoming grimmer with the opposition. The biggest opponent to the teen ministry revision is the previous youth leader. Since my first post on this topic I have learned that she has let the sin of bitterness sink to far in her heart. It is a very sad situation. She lost both her boys from the church when she had the helm. She encouraged these big flashy events over building disciples of the faith and now her two sons have recently left the church for these glitzy events she advocated, and she is angry at the church for this. She and her husband blame the church for not being what her sons wanted and that is why their kids left the church. She also lost the leadership of the youth group by a chance of fate when she had to leave to take care of her sick mother. (That is when she asked me to takeover.) Now, that her mother recently died, she is a since free to come back, and it appears she wants to come back, only the problem is I am in the way. Under her watch the youth group died and we lost youth from the church. Under my watch the youth group has tripled and we have gained youth to the church. I say this not out of pride but as praise for what God has used me, an unworthy servant, to accomplish. The students don’t want me to leave, and neither does the church. So it does not look like the former youth leader will be getting the helm back anytime soon. And this is where the bitterness is spilling over. She is trying to turn the youth against me. She is filling their heads with thoughts of how useless the S.O.S. Teen Ministry by comparing it to bigger flasher groups. And her poison is working! My best student has now turned against me and sided with the former youth leader. Now she is the only one of twelve students, but the former youth leader is trying to rally more to her position, and all under the church’s disapproval. So the issue of the former leader is going to be dealt with, but not by me. It is now a matter for the church, and the board of trustees will deal with it. So I just ask prayer that my church will do the right thing in dealing with the former leader. And I also ask prayer for the former leader. She has become a very bitter person and I just ask that the Lord will able to peel away the anger and resentment before in consumes her heart.
The good news comes from the fact that three of my students are really getting into participating with the S.O.S. Teen Ministry (the youth group I lead). One of them in particular has sort of been my project over the last year. A year ago she was the troublemaker in the church, the one that people would just shake their head at, but not me. I have ministered to this girl for a year now and this past week was a major breakthrough. It is just amazing to see how God has reached into her life and changed the once troublemaker into a follower hungry to know God more. It is just awesome! Now she is heading up the leadership team in their drive to make the S.O.S. Teen Ministry a successful Christian outreach for the Lord. It is just too awesome! And I praise God for the awesome things He is doing in these students lives!
So I will continue to do what I am doing here, ministering, and helping the youth develop a closer walk with God. I ask for prayers for me and for the youth.
God Bless
~HS5K
Live your life, love the Lord, and don't forget to laugh...
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holysoldier5000 - Posts: 771
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 am
- Location: Off the page of the map... here there be monsters!
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
Same here. It may appear that the odds are against you, but remember, the Lord is on your side.
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
-
K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
Indeed. I'll be praying for you too matie; actually, this reminds me of a book written by John Bevere called 'The Bait of Satan'. It's all about offense and how it can have such a hold on us if we don't let it go. If you have it handy, i strongly suggest reading it. I can't remember all of what it says, but one part was that if someone is offended at you, even if you don't know the reason, try to make peace with that person.
Anyway, keep on going strong! It sounds like you are doing such an awesome job
Anyway, keep on going strong! It sounds like you are doing such an awesome job
- Hephzibah
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Australia
I know how hard it is to try to do something different in a society that is older & demands conformity. A few years ago I left my family church because I felt there was nothing there for me. I caught alot of flack from my family for choosing another denomination, but in the few years I've made more progress than I ever have before. I know that the Lord has me where he wants me, until he tells me otherwise. Even though it's hard, if you listen to God he will reward you. Don't give up because what the Lord starts he will finish. I will pray for you.
This message has been brought to you by the Members of the My Job Drives Me Nutz Association. 
:hits_self:lol:
"I probably won't enter heaven nice, clean and neat. More like sliding in sideways saying, man, what a ride"
@)}~ Carry this rose in your sig, as thanks, to all the CAA moderators.
:hits_self:lol:
"I probably won't enter heaven nice, clean and neat. More like sliding in sideways saying, man, what a ride"
@)}~ Carry this rose in your sig, as thanks, to all the CAA moderators.
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V8Tsunami - Posts: 157
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:48 pm
- Location: the middle of nowhere
I read about something like that in one of my servant leadership books...
[quote="Randy Sims - The Greatest Among You"]
The good and the bad of empowerment:
Two things can happen when you pass the ball]
Phew... That took me forever to type out, I hope that it's useful in some way.
I'll be praying for you and your ministry!
Postscript: Randy Sims is the director of Worldview Academy. If anyone wanted to know.
[quote="Randy Sims - The Greatest Among You"]
The good and the bad of empowerment:
Two things can happen when you pass the ball]
Phew... That took me forever to type out, I hope that it's useful in some way.
I'll be praying for you and your ministry!
Postscript: Randy Sims is the director of Worldview Academy. If anyone wanted to know.
"What kind of farmer are you who goes armed like a pirate?"-Jublain from Sackett's Land
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lionheart - Posts: 104
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:51 am
- Location: Washington.
Wow. Sounds a lot like a situation our church went through. I know it hurts.
I'll be praying for you, friend.
I'll be praying for you, friend.
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Mangafanatic - Posts: 4918
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: In La-La land.
lionheart wrote:I read about something like that in one of my servant leadership books...
Phew... That took me forever to type out, I hope that it's useful in some way.
I'll be praying for you and your ministry!
Postscript: Randy Sims is the director of Worldview Academy. If anyone wanted to know.
That was awesome! Thanks a bunch! I think you really hit the nail on the head there. And thanks everyone for the prayers. I will give another update this weekend. Hopefully things go better. I'm going to have a talk with the one student who is now against me. Hopefully that goes well.
God Bless
~HS5K
Live your life, love the Lord, and don't forget to laugh...
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holysoldier5000 - Posts: 771
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 am
- Location: Off the page of the map... here there be monsters!
The Unseen Tensions of Ministry
[B]2 Corinthians 2: 9-17 - “The Unseen Tensions of Ministryâ€
Live your life, love the Lord, and don't forget to laugh...
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holysoldier5000 - Posts: 771
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 am
- Location: Off the page of the map... here there be monsters!
The Unseen Tensions of Ministry II
2. Sometimes we feel we’ve failed even though we know we’re on the victory side.
Preachers tell us “We’re on the victory side!â€
Preachers tell us “We’re on the victory side!â€
Live your life, love the Lord, and don't forget to laugh...
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holysoldier5000 - Posts: 771
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 am
- Location: Off the page of the map... here there be monsters!
The Unseen Tensions of Ministry III
3. Often we feel inadequate in God’s work even though we know we’re called.
Paul often felt inadequate for the great task God had given him as a preacher of the Gospel. e.g. v.16b “Who is sufficient for these things?â€
Paul often felt inadequate for the great task God had given him as a preacher of the Gospel. e.g. v.16b “Who is sufficient for these things?â€
Live your life, love the Lord, and don't forget to laugh...
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holysoldier5000 - Posts: 771
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 am
- Location: Off the page of the map... here there be monsters!
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