Something I have never dealt with... Prayer may be needed...

Postby **ChristianKitsune** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:45 am

Ok, I am currently a Senior in High School, however I had the option of taking a weekly Night Class for college.. I chose A Survey over Western Civilazation...

Last night was my second night there... and we were covering ancient relgions and the Hebrews. As well as ancient countries and yada yada yada..

ANYWAY. Before Class started I had mentioned to my College professor.. that I LOVED the chapter over the Hebrews. He then put two and two together and figured out that I was a Christian.

That isn't so bad.. I don't mind people knowing about my faith. I am not afraid to tell them either.

But after that, when Class actually started... He kept asking me questions over Religion, and it was really Only me he asked.

(I am the only girl in that class too..which causes me to get really nervous around my male peers... ) ANYWAY.. There came a few points when this guy was like, "I am a Christian, I believe that Jesus died for my sins because that is what I was taught." Ok..not so bad there.. but then he goes on to say, "I don't KNOW if there really is a heaven though, because there are so many other religions that say, THEY ARE right." He said something about faith but he still was very clear that he didn't know what he was doing. (From my standpoint.)

He then went on to critisize the Bible slightly, about how he didn't believe in "Noah and the Whale." Ok, by this time.. I am CRACKING up. Seriously. I hate to admit it, but. I really didn't know if he was talking about, "Jonah and the BIG FISH." OR "Noah's Ark."

He then looked at me and asked me if I believed, and I told him "Why not?" I mean it IS the Bible, GOD'S WORD. He then smirked at me.. and the subject was closed...or so I thought..

During the rest of the night, we went into study of the Hebrews. and There came a point in the passage where it talked about.. How at First the Hebrews could have believed in "Polytheism." OR the belief in MANY gods. He then looked at me and smirked again. And pointed that out. and I said, "AT FIRST! YAH!" Because I believe that during their time in Egypt they could have lost thier faith. Seriously, why the idol worship of the Golden Cow and Sinai? But after the 10 commandments were issued they pretty much turned from worshiping gods and turned to THE God.

Anyway..to make a long story short, because I could go on and on..but ther IS a character limit...

I need prayer guys.. for strength but also compassion for this guy. Strength that I will not say anything against God. and Strength that I will not get angry at this guy. I admit it was an interesting night. I don't mind sharing what I believe. It was just something I had NEVER come across before... I also have never heard a teacher cuss so much in my entire life! It is a different thing for me... and it makes me so uncomfortable..but I don't want to fail this class.. bnut I don't want to look like a "Bible Thumper" either.

There is also a 25 year old taking the class with us. and I am not sure what he believes. But at the end of class he asked me, "So, if I don't have faith.. I am going to hell?"

I explained to him "Yes," he got a tad irratated, and I told him the story of doubting Thomas, and then I said, "How much greater is Faith WITHOUT seeing...then faith because you see?" He was like
"that's true." So.. if this guy isn't a christian I hope he becomes one..

ahhh there is so much to talk about but I think I shall close it here...

Thanks in Advance guys!

Postby **bigsleepj** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:54 am

Well, he's obviously very cynical on whether or not there is a God but at least he's more open to it then some people who do some equivalent of plugging up their ears when you try to speak of it. He seems to have a good chance of actually becoming a Christian. I'll certainly pray for him though.

Postby **Hephzibah** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:02 am

Strewthy! It's tough when you are in a situation like that were those in authority mock Christianity (of course, not openly... they don't want to be sued after all), because it in turn influences others to do the same. You'll be having my prayers matie; May Jesus use you to be a brilliant lamp, shining His light and truth in this situation

Postby **Ryupower** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:19 am

That was interesting to read.

Anyways, I'll pray for you, your teacher, and that guy. K?

Postby **Galant** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:51 am

Will pray. If I may - don't be worried or distracted by the horses that seem to be sprinting faster than you - many glory horses have galloped into the race, only to find them fallen out with the passage of time. The moment always seems to pile on the pressure, but time has borne out that which is strong and true. Simply live out your love and don't be afraid by the fact that you do not have all the answers. No-one does, and if they seem to suggest that just because you can't answer their every question the Christian faith is meaningless, then they betray their desires over their logic.

Just continue to pray for strength of witness in actions - live out love in that classroom. Gal 5:22-23 - 'against such things there is no law and no argument'. Such is the glory of the Christian faith.

Postby **freerock1** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:43 am

First, I want to say

on standing up for your faith. It was also awesome that you got to have that conversation at the end. And you never know, what someone may see in you may plant a seed in them that will lead to them coming to know Christ, or growing in their walk with Him. (Something like that happened with my mom; when she went to her high school reunion a couple years back, a guy that had become a minister talked like she had been an influence for Christ on him, something that she never realized.) And know that quite possible, there are some other Christians in the class that maybe aren't as outgoing, but would have your back if it gets tough.

Also, let this situation encourage you to aspire to doing good work in the class. I had a situation in one of my classes (actually a web design class) where a prof. found out I was a Christian, and he was a bit critical. But I think I was eventually able to win his respect. And who knows what it could lead to in his own life. I say that not to boast about myself, but to say that God can use you to be a witness in ways you might not think of.

Anyway, I'm lifting you up. Keep us posted!

Postby **kazekami** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:55 am

I'll pray for you. I once took a GE course called Women studies because I just randomly picked one. Unfortunately that class was extremely anti-christian. The teacher even went so far as to call all Catholics hypocrits. I issued a complaint to the university. In the class we had to do presentations on women in history. So I found someone who was a christian from the time of the black plauge. A christian mystic who wrote the most lovely treatsy on the love of God for his creation. It was a really uplifting piece to read. It was in middle English so it was a bit hard to read but fun. Unfortunately some of the people in class tried to equate what she was saying with the goddess. -_-

I will pray that you stay strong and that guy comes to the Lord.

Postby **Mave** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:08 am

Boy am I curious now. XD

ChristianRonin wrote:He then went on to critisize the Bible slightly, about how he didn't believe in "Noah and the Whale." Ok, by this time.. I am CRACKING up. Seriously. I hate to admit it, but. I really didn't know if he was talking about, "Jonah and the BIG FISH." OR "Noah's Ark."

Did he ever mention why he doesn't he believe in that?

There came a point in the passage where it talked about.. How at First the Hebrews could have believed in "Polytheism." OR the belief in MANY gods.

Which verse is that? Don't mind me, I'm just double-checking. ^^

Seriously, why the idol worship of the Golden Cow and Sinai?
But after the 10 commandments were issued they pretty much turned from worshiping gods and turned to THE God.

I don't see what his point is. God's ppl may have made mistakes before....eh so what? It doesn't change the nature of Our God. That very incident indicates how many of us can easily fall into the foolishness of idoltary. I would think the fact that the ppl turned back from their wrong ways back to the REAL THING would be an indication of a forgiving and merciful God.

Ah I couldn't help digging into this discussion hehe. But yeah I'll pray that you will have courage, faith and love for this individual (don't worry, the package includes strength and compassion

) Stand firm, you've got nothing to worry about, God is on your side and we're cheering on you! *0*)//

Postby **ChristianKitsune** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:56 pm

Thanks for your prayers everyone. I really appreciate them!

Mave wrote:Boy am I curious now. XD

Did he ever mention why he doesn't he believe in that?

No.. he didn't he just said that it was impossible for someone to live inside a "Whales" belly. THe bible never said it was a "whale" it described it as a "big fish" Who knows what kind of Creatures were around that long ago? and I believe that if you believe one part of the bible you should believe ALL of it... because it IS TRUTH.

Which verse is that? Don't mind me, I'm just double-checking. ^^

It wasn't in the Bible it was in my Western Civilazations Book..

I don't see what his point is. God's ppl may have made mistakes before....eh so what? It doesn't change the nature of Our God. That very incident indicates how many of us can easily fall into the foolishness of idoltary. I would think the fact that the ppl turned back from their wrong ways back to the REAL THING would be an indication of a forgiving and merciful God.

Ah I couldn't help digging into this discussion hehe. But yeah I'll pray that you will have courage, faith and love for this individual (don't worry, the package includes strength and compassion ]

Thank you, Mave! ^^

Postby **SP1** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:33 pm

That the whole Bible is Christian scripture is not really deniable, at least to most mainstream Christians. Being scripture doesn't necessarily mean "literally true," however. For example, Genesis records two different creation sequences in its opening chapters. How do we reconcile this? Perhaps what was created on what day was not considered important by the original story teller. Rather, it depended on the audience. One is a version that would resonate with a farmer, the other appeals to nomadic herders. But the point is the same: God created the world in an orderly fashion and it was good. The story of the Garden of Eden also, at one point, refers to God in the plural (you'll have to get a modern translation to see this in the notes). That, plus all of the places that the Hebrews "backslide" and begin worshiping other, local gods (baal, asherah, etc.) and the fact that the name of God changes in the old testament a couple of times is probably where your history of "polytheism" comes from.

Early Christianity struggled with this. Not a few sects tried to distance themselves from Jews by denying the old testament in favor of the new. That is, they had a really thin Bible (gospels, a few letters of Paul, etc.). This of course kind of denies that Jesus was Jewish (duh), and read from and quoted the Hebrew texts (Torah and prophets mostly) a lot.

Stand firm in your faith as the Holy Spirit speaks to you. There are a lot of opinions out there, even from Christians. Keep studying the whole Bible. Knowledge of the scripture is your best defense here; that way your are not caught off gaurd hearing some new twist or interpretation.

Postby **Maledicte** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:45 pm

Dang. I'll be praying for you.

Postby **ChristianKitsune** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:59 pm

Again, advice is greatly appreciated as are the prayers...

Postby **Hephzibah** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:55 pm

For example, Genesis records two different creation sequences in its opening chapters. How do we reconcile this? Perhaps what was created on what day was not considered important by the original story teller. Rather, it depended on the audience. One is a version that would resonate with a farmer, the other appeals to nomadic herders.

Just a point here... In Genesis 1 it shows the creation in its chronological order. Genesis 2 isn't the order it went in, rather it shows man's place in everything. (eg
Genesis 2: 15 "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it."
and Genesis 2: 19 "Now the LORD God had (note... past tense) formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name."

The story of the Garden of Eden also, at one point, refers to God in the plural (you'll have to get a modern translation to see this in the notes).

From my understanding, that is because it is referring to the tri-aspect of God (Father, the Word/Son and the Spirit)

That, plus all of the places that the Hebrews "backslide" and begin worshiping other, local gods (baal, asherah, etc.) and the fact that the name of God changes in the old testament a couple of times is probably where your history of "polytheism" comes from.

I'm not sure about this one... are you referring to the different names of God (eg Jehovah Jireh)?

Edit:
Btw, please keep us updated about the situation CR. I'll also pray that you get some Christian support in there

Postby **ChristianKitsune** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:06 pm

Talame wrote:

From my understanding, that is because it is referring to the tri-aspect of God (Father, the Word/Son and the Spirit)

yah That is the reason.. Or at least what I have read...*looks around..*

I'm not sure about this one... are you referring to the different names of God (eg Jehovah Jireh)?

no he is correct...during teh time of Elijah there were some Hebrews who turned to other gods, but NOT ALL of them... And Elijah and God did an awesome job in proving the false god wrong..

Edit:
Btw, please keep us updated about the situation CR. I'll also pray that you get some Christian support in there

I don't have another class untill the 12. .because It is a weekly class but they last for 3 hrs.. but I will..

Postby **~Natsumi Lam~** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:03 am

i truely pray God guides your tongue in the right directions and at the right times!!

~Natsumi Lam~

Postby **SP1** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:12 pm

Talame wrote:Just a point here... In Genesis 1 it shows the creation in its chronological order. Genesis 2 isn't the order it went in, rather it shows man's place in everything. (eg
Genesis 2: 15 "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it."
and Genesis 2: 19 "Now the LORD God had (note... past tense) formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them]

Could be. Of course, this might be a Christian reading. I don't think the ancient Jews thought of God this way. Point taken on the Genesis 1/2 discussion. I had this explained to me once as a result of two priestly classes (agrarian and nomadic) in the developing Jewish nation. The result of a "team effort" so to speak.

Talame wrote:I'm not sure about this one... are you referring to the different names of God (eg Jehovah Jireh)?

Yes. You and CR are both right in my view. First is the fact that God is called, in various places: Elohim, JHVH (tetragrammaton, which was never spoken), etc. Also, as the Isrealites spread into Canaan, there was the pull of the local Gods.

Postby **agasfas** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:32 pm

ChristianRonin wrote:He then went on to critisize the Bible slightly, about how he didn't believe in "Noah and the Whale." Ok, by this time.. I am CRACKING up. Seriously. I hate to admit it, but. I really didn't know if he was talking about, "Jonah and the BIG FISH." OR "Noah's Ark."

Sounds like the average critic who likes to think they're an expert yet misquotes, using examples that don't relate etc... The story of Jonah is one that many like to bash, even some people who call themselves christians. Fact is, Christ himself even talked and refered to it.

Regardless, sometimes there are times in our lives it's best just to bit our tongues and just let it go in one ear and out the other. My grandfather who's a pastor told me that. He too had to deal with that stuff before going to a seminary college. So if he's one of these professors who grade on what he believes, just give it, write it, and move on. It's not worth your time or anger. Eventually, you'll be out of that class. There's more to life then this one class. That, or you could just drop it and take it with another professor.

There are going to be many times in our lives that we disagree whole heartly about somethings... sadly it's a part of life.

I'll be praying for strength and patience . I hope things work out.

Postby **SP1** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:20 pm

Well, in the middle of all this Bible commentary, I forgot to mention:

I'll be praying for you.

That's the important thing. That and you are a senior in high school taking a college course. How cool is that? Very. Definitely pointless to engage the teacher in debate. Too easy to slip up here and make a mistake. Like I did in an earlier post. :bang:

The guy probably has issues. Just pay attention in class and let it bounce off you and smile. Could be worse. Could have been Mr. Kimura (Azumanga Daioh). Hey, I had to get an anime reference in here somewhere.

Postby **kazekami** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:58 pm

It's tough when your in a situation like that. On my LJ some guy a while back just wanted to pick apart my faith. He found out I was Christian and decided to question me. So i answered all his questions. then he started to twist my words and didn't even sound like he was listending and making up weird stuff to ask me till I lost my temper and told him off. Which was a very bad unchristian thing to do. 0_o I'm a bad girl. Luckily when i took the class where they put down Christians and were like yay goddess i didn't loose my temper. I'm praying for you. Hopefully you can do some good in the situation.

Postby **Yojimbo** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:51 pm

The Hebrews ancestors were originally polytheistic. God didn't reveal himself to Abraham until he was much older. He lived in Ur which had many gods and his father was an idol maker so he was obviously brought up that way.

And many many times there were Hebrews that strayed from the faith pretty much in every important time in Hebrew Scripture. I don't see the argument in that. The ones that strayed away were punished ultimately and the ones that kept the faith moved on.

I'll pray that you can represent Christ in the class and don't lose your temper. But don't consider everyone who might not agree exactly with your interpretation on the Bible as some lost sheep. There are many views on that and I certainly don't agree with half the people on this forum's view's but it doesn't make me or them any less of a Christian.

Postby **ChristianKitsune** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:01 pm

Ok..thanks for everyone's comments... I didn't realize that this had been updated...*so sorry..*

Anyway.. I go back to college class in about... 2 hours..and I am VERY nervous... I don't know why..but I am kinda scared.... I know I should be... but I don't want to face this guy again... I hope everything goes smoothly..but we are finishing up the study of Hebrews tonight..so there is still an opportunity for this subject to come up again..

I THANK you so much for praying for me all.. I appreciate them greatly... Really I do!

IN CHRIST..

ChristianRonin.

Postby **lionheart** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:01 pm

I'll be praying for you.

The only debate tip that I can think of right now is that if anyone states something incredibly off-beat as a solid fact, you could ask them "how do you know that?" And then ask them to provide reasonable evidence for it. Anyone can say whatever they want, but unless they can back it up, it's only their personal opinion. (Just be sure that you have an answer ready if they turn the question back to you.

) And whatever you do, try to ask it in a tone of respect... I've really set some people off when I chose to ask it in a spirit of "Ha, I'm wining the debate" rather than "Are you sure that what you said is accurate" :sweat:

Also, I'll often use www.probe.org's articles as a resource if I'm looking for arguments for/against something. But I don't know if they'll have specifically what you need...

Edit/Postscript: Try not to be too nervous.

Since the Christian view of the world is true, you probably won't have that hard of a time thinking of arguments to defend it with.

Postby **ChristianKitsune** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:19 pm

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!

My Teacher apologized today! He was like, "I don't mean to offend you... but you know more than the other students do about these matters.." So.. Tis all good!

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR YOUR PRAYERS! I really enjoyed my class tonight! ^_^

Postby **Artist4Jesus89** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:26 pm

i will pray (^o^)/~~

Postby **Ratrace** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:27 am

Stand up for your faith and be patient and things usualy work out. Prayer is always a good idea too

Something I have never dealt with... Prayer may be needed...

Something I have never dealt with... Prayer may be needed...

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