Something seems to be very wrong here...

[Shao Feng-Li]

What's with the tolaration(sp?) of these crossdressing japanese singers? Isn't it like a sin to for a man to dress like a woman eith full intention of looking like one? It makes me very worried. At least tell me none of them are homosexual.

[Mave]

From what I understand, they are not homosexual. I know one of them is happily married and with child. Go Hyde!

[Jasdero]

Will do. "None of them are homosexual."

But that wouldn't be honest. Just like people who wear society's definition of "normal" clothing, there are those that might be gay, and others that aren't. I really wish someone would tell me why it's considered acceptable for women to dress like men, but the opposite is "omg! liek, so wrong!" Just a few decades ago, it was appalling for women to wear jeans, or overalls. Now, you can see it everywhere.

Just a random thought here... You obviouly seem to be very disturbed by this whole "man who dress like woman" idea. Why don't you just keep away from those threads instead of criticizing those members who happen to like it?

[Elric_kun]

if you dont know how to spell something just go to dictionary.com...

(be glad im in a good mood and wont flame you :3)

[Shao Feng-Li]

So you know, I do stay away from those threads. Besides flaming me would do you now good either i.e "right back at you." It's looking liek a woman that is wrong. I ware army issue camo's and I still look like a girl. Women shouldn't dress like men either for that matter. Does Mana look the least bit like his gendar? No and there's something wrong about that. I'm worried not disturbed. If I was I'd had said something.

Will do. "None of them are homosexual."

This forum seems to be a little on the liberal side, but I didn't think people would sink that low, but I was just making sure.

[Jasdero]

So you know, I do stay away from those threads.

Nicely done.

It's looking liek a woman that is wrong. I ware army issue camo's and I still look like a girl. Women shouldn't dress like men either for that matter.

But you just said that you dressed in a generally considered male garment, didn't you?

Does Mana look the least bit like his gendar? No and there's something wrong about that. I'm worried not disturbed. If I was I'd had said something.

So... Is it bad for a woman to look masculine?

Will do. "None of them are homosexual."

This forum seems to be a little on the liberal side, but I didn't think people would sink that low, but I was just making sure.

Thank you for twisting my words.

Will do. "None of them are homosexual."

But that wouldn't be honest.

There.
1) I'm quoting you
2) I said it wasn't true.

Edit: Anyway, I'm done. It's pointless to argue with someone who turns deaf ears.

[ChristianKitsune]

So you know, I do stay away from those threads. Besides flaming me would do you now good either i.e "right back at you." It's looking liek a woman that is wrong. I ware army issue camo's and I still look like a girl. Women shouldn't dress like men either for that matter. Does Mana look the least bit like his gendar? No and there's something wrong about that. I'm worried not disturbed. If I was I'd had said something.



This forum seems to be a little on the liberal side, but I didn't think people would sink that low, but I was just making sure.

O.O what is going on?! What thread is you all talkin about? and who says its wrong for girsl to dress like guys and visa versa! O.o I mean actual exotic cross dressing is odd.. (like in Taiwan..)

I am soo lost..

btw i am a conservative..lol

[Mave]

I think it is safe to say that some (if not most) homosexuals dress very much like men as well. --> Queer Eye for the Straight Guy

I tolerate cross-dressing to a certain extent because I am not sure whether we can take Deutoronomy 22:5 at face value for reasons Sunako has already mentioned. Anyone care to address this issue in a civil manner?

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that from what I understand, these singers dress like men in their everyday life. They seem to only dress up during performance just as how guys (even today) would wear makeup on the stage.

[Hitokiri]

I usually support those who like J-Rock (since I like some questionable music) however I will not hide the fact that the way they dress and portray themselves is quite disturbing to me.

I forget the exact verse but in the Bible, it says man whould not look like women, and women should not look like men. Sorry to use this analogy but a girl who dresses in skimpy, revealing clothes is generally thought as easy. Goes same with a guy who dresses as a girl. It is generally thought and given, that he is gay.

I have one question though. Why do they dres that way?

[Solid Ronin]

I think it is safe to say that some (if not most) homosexuals dress very much like men as well. --> Queer Eye for the Straight Guy

I tolerate cross-dressing to a certain extent because I am not sure whether we can take Deutoronomy 22:5 at face value for reasons Sunako has already mentioned. Anyone care to address this issue in a civil manner?

But what exactly is a civil manner, Mave.

I agree it is odd but I think what it comes down to is if you yourself think its a sin, And if you do..then don't do it and don't be around it.

[Aka-chan]

My reasoning here is that the verse refers to homosexuality, which is, I agree, very wrong. I myself would be somewhat uncomfortable with an American guy crossdressing because in our culture crossdressing is linked so closely with homosexuality. However, in Japan, most of the crossdressers are straight and it’s more of a fashion statement, perhaps like tattoos or piercings are here. It’s not them saying “I lust after those of my own sexâ€

[Shao Feng-Li]

Ack! Soory Sunako! I said it wrong. You said that they are strait and I typed my response wrong, that's all. No it's not right for a woman to look masculin either. Women should look like women and men should look like men.

I forget sometimes that Japan is not a christian nation at all. I now know that amny of them aren't gay, but that doesn't make their looking like a woman less of a sin.

[Hitokiri]

Also, it's all good to really like stuff but it shouldn't ever become first in thought, energy, or time before God. I know I listen to music and draw way more than my prayer time so I'm not at fault. But J-Rock shouldn't replace God in your life nor should you risk J-Rock getting into idol status which I have seen people almost idolize these guys.

Also, the reason I asked that: is it just for shock value? Just for fashion sense and be somebody? To get fans? Would thier music be less if they don't dress like that?

Like what Aka-chan, it might be aceptable in Japan to cross-dress and a fashion sense much like in some European countries, swearing is considered ok. However, God's law governs all law and if he says cross-dressing is a sin then it's wrong no matter what the culture's view on it.

[Locke]

Does that make any sense?

Cristal.

Though the only japanese artists I like are female I dont really pay attention to their style. As for women wearing guys clothes...what would you call a tom-boy? lol
One of my best friends is a tom-boy! and I like her!

I like how everyone is standing up for there beleifs, very cool.
*is a weirdo and notices these things*

[Shao Feng-Li]

Now if Sunako would be done being offended by me and relize I made a typo. It's ten o clock on my side of the country and I'm getting tired... well things happen and your fingers hit the wrong keys and your brain longs for slumber. And please don't assume I have deaf ears. It's very insulting.

[Mave]

Ronin, what I mean by civil --> No flaming or name-calling. So far, we're doing just fine.

Nuts, I have to log off now.

One last thing, I do NOT like some JRock bands and I know the same goes for many participants of the JRock pics thread. They have their limits too but they just happen to differ from one individual from another. I've come to accept that ppl naturally assume things based on first impression, so that's why I'm explaining my point of view.

With that said, I am not going to defend every JRock group because in my personal opinion, some unmentioned groups go way overboard with this Visual Kei concept and some lyrics are very disturbing. I'm just glad that Laruku switched their looks to something more mainstream.

EDIT: I never thought that I would be idolizing JRockers and bishies although I would like to think that is not the case. I will look into it <-- I mean this honestly and humbly. No sarcasm here.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I think with Deuteronomy 22:5 I think it also has to do with one's intentions. I wear camos but I don't look like a boy and have no desire to do so. But these men look like women. I guess it's all for dress up... but still...

[Hitokiri]

I think it should also be a fact of discernment. If a J-Rock band looks to...how shall we say...girly and it makes you stumble. You should make a decision based on your relationship with God to help you against it.

Like I said, I sympathize with the J-Rock fans cause my bands dress odd as well odd pic. That's alot different then this picture nother odd pic. I wanted to try out the last band but not only did thier imagry turn me down but thier lyrical content while the first band exclaims Jesus's victory over death yet dresses that way.

Which makes me wonder. Is thier any Christian J-Rock?

[Shao Feng-Li]

Still they look like men to me Still rather fruitcake ish.

[Locke]

I think it should also be a fact of discernment. If a J-Rock band looks to...how shall we say...girly and it makes you stumble. You should make a decision based on your relationship with God to help you against it.

Like I said, I sympathize with the J-Rock fans cause my bands dress odd as well odd pic. That's alot different then this picture nother odd pic. I wanted to try out the last band but not only did thier imagry turn me down but thier lyrical content while the first band exclaims Jesus's victory over death yet dresses that way.

Which makes me wonder. Is thier any Christian J-Rock?

Dude that first pic looks like KKK Klansman.
Hmm ask Sunaku or E-Kun if there is any CJ-Rock out there.

[LorentzForce]

Many artist groups in this world rely on the fact that once you listen to their songs, or see them, you remember them forever. Can anyone ever erase KISS guys images from their heads? Michael Jackson's face? Junior Senior's "Move your feet" music video? Japanese artists are no different, neither are Korean, or any artists for that matter, if they disturb you they most likely are doing it just to make you go "woah", and you remember it. Like advertisements.

So in most cases, dismiss them as you would see a TV advertisement that doesn't seem appropriate for that time of the day. If they are sinning, well, who are we to judge?

[Mangafanatic]

Guys, this is so disappointing. Why do we insist on doing this over and over again?

Okay, I myself feel a little uncomfortable with Jrockers who look EXACTLY like girls, but I ask you this "Do you think Jesus ran around saying 'You're a prostitute, drunkard, [insert other sinful behavior here] and you're just-- wrong!" Remember-- Jesus ATE with those kinds of people. Jesus came to love everybody. As followers of Jesus, I think we should be spending a little more time loving people, and a little less time pointing fingers.

Furthermore, we wouldn't bat an eye if someone on this board listened to a US pop artist who disrespected his parent. Are the sins on the same level: yes. Do we get more up in arms about cross dressing than we do about people who are disrespectful: yes. Why? Because we don't see the world the way God does.

Really, guys, I just-- *sigh* "Let him who is without sin throw the first stone."

[Shao Feng-Li]

While I dont completely agree with you, Manga Fanatic- Well for those of us with no money for plane or boat tickets it hard to get over there and preach the gospel. I fully get what you're saying. Dressing like a woman to look like one is wrong when you're a guy, but sitting here talking about it won't do any good either. I believe God's law is what we use to judge by. If I were a crossdresser I wouldn't say anything about these guys. For now all we really can do is pray for them. It's sad they have all this great talent thne they do stupid things like this. Then again, I can't say we're not fallen men who do really stupid things (but as Christians we repent) in need of a saviour. The guys of MM- their music is really cool methinks. THey don't need to look like ladies. Gackt sure doesn't need to. *drools*

[Mangafanatic]

I believe God's law is what we use to judge by.

Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

The law is what God uses to judge people. We aren't suppose to judge anyone.

[Shao Feng-Li]

So if the guy next door is cheaten on his wife i dont call him an adulterer? Not if I was doing the same thing, that I know for sure.

7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:4
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Reading past the first verse, that is what i understand. Signing off now. Too tired and I'll fixed my typos tomarrow... *yawn*

[Jasdero]

So if the guy next door is cheaten on his wife i dont call him an adulterer? Not if I was doing the same thing, that I know for sure.

I think you shouldn't because you don't have a right to...

As for why I didn't reply to your earlier post, if you checked the edit I made in my second post, you would understand.

[true_noir_chloe]

Thank you Mave, Mangafanatic, Lorentzforce and Sunako for your clarity of opinion.

This thread should be locked now. I think all arguments have been stated.

As Osaka so aptly put, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Obviously, Shao, there are fellow Christians here who like J-rock, and from the hundreds of replies on that thread it is a popular music form with some of the kids here. You must be wise in your battles.

And let me explain Deutoronomy 22:5 - oh wait, rather than follow this one Sundry Law, we'll have to follow all the rest of the laws in Deutoronomy 22. Let's all open our Bibles to Deutoronomy and just read that chapter for starters. Then, I think to make sure we don't miss any laws we need to read all of Deutonomy and make sure, everyone, to follow each and every one of those laws. I mean, if you want to follow one, you need to follow them all.

I mean it, are you all reading through those laws?

Well... no, that would be ridiculous in this day and age of grace.

It sure makes me glad Christ came and fulfilled these with His sacrifice on the cross. This verse is of no use now, except to serve this purpose: "And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more. That as sin reigned even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:20-21

It would be good for all of us to read through the book of Romans, which is the best argument ever written on why the Laws of the Old Testament are here. Not for us to follow, but for Christ's grace to be seen in all it's glory.

The cross! The ultimate law-fulfiller... not us.

[Joshua Christopher]

EDIT: I've removed this, since people seem to think I'm only trying to frustrate others.

[true_noir_chloe]

Well, Impact, it's because murder is taking a life - a precious creation of God. We have to remember the two great commandments that Christ gave; first, to love our God above all else, and second, to love others as ourselves.

There are also the Human Laws of Government we must abide by. Such as, overall murder is a top offense in most countries.

And now, rather than catering to your question, Impact, which I'm thinking is merely here to frustrate people, because that seems to be your life theme, I'll continue my search for a mod or admin.

[Fsiphskilm]

j-rockers + fans of jrockers + poeple who think this crossdressing is getting way out of hand + over analytical christians throwing bible concepts everywhere in the attempt to take a grey area and show it in a +/- light =

I gave up on this long ago. let it be. It's bad enough the japanese have serious fashion issues now we've got members fighting and counter-fighting with Bible verses over something so stupid.

J-rockers are freaks, fact.
J-rockers try to be as femanine as possible, fact.

so what? Who cares. The only thing i ask is this.
Glamorizing J-Rockers is no different than going to a drag-queen contest and enjoying the show, same concept. Curiousity, abnormal entertainment.