Grandia: A Grand RPG series

[Chosen Raven]

Was his support of Christianity one of the major reasons he was called a demon and a monster?

Nobunaga basically supported Christianity only because it furthered his goals of conquest. Want to know more about him? Go here: http://www.samurai-archives.com/nobunaga.html

[Arnobius]

Slightly off topic, but it seems to go here more than anywhere else.

I play the game Samurai Warriors, and I recently got Xtreme Legends, which has a brief history of each of the characters in the game.

Nobunaga Oda is one of the major bad guys in Samurai Warriors, and was the main bad guy in Onimusha 3 (and 2, I believe). He is referred to as a demon and monster multiple times. Upon reading his bio on Xtreme Legends...

He seems like a decent guy. He brought many technological advancments to Japan, including musket warfare. He also was a very large supporter of the spread of Christianity throughout Japan.

This thread (and the thing about Tactics) got me wondering...

Was his support of Christianity one of the major reasons he was called a demon and a monster?

I forget the book, but I do seem to recall that allegation being made about this in a book discussing among other things, the anime Ghostsweeper Mikami where Nobunaga was portrayed as a vampire. Personally, I wonder how things might have turned out different if Nobunaga had won and Tokugawa had lost. Perhaps Japan might have become a Christian nation, been less xenophobic, not gone into isolation and eventually not fought WWII.

There was also a character in some fighting game ("Samurai something"-- yeah I know, big help... ) who was made a villain, who happened to be a Christian samurai who fought against the Tokugawa when they massacred 37,000 Christians in Shimabara (Japanese history books call it a Christian uprising, but reading about it makes it look like the Shogunate instigated it)

As a side note, there is one thing that always amused me about some of the Japanese vampire oriented anime-- why is it The Vatican that's always responsible for opposing them? (Ghostsweeper Mikami, Hellsing) I don't recall *that* being part of the Catechism ]Nobunaga basically supported Christianity only because it furthered his goals of conquest. Want to know more about him? Go here: http://www.samurai-archives.com/nobunaga.html[/quote]
Probably an accurate assessment, though I think that people tend to forget things from history. I get the impression that some Japanese believe Nobunaga was going to sell out Japan to the foreigners and Christians.

Nice site, btw...

[Chosen Raven]

I forget the book, but I do seem to recall that allegation being made about this in a book discussing among other things, the anime Ghostsweeper Mikami where Nobunaga was portrayed as a vampire. Personally, I wonder how things might have turned out different if Nobunaga had won and Tokugawa had lost. Perhaps Japan might have become a Christian nation, been less xenophobic, not gone into isolation and eventually not fought WWII.

That's definitely something to think about. One reason Japan has a small amount of Christians might also have to do with the bombing of Nagasaki. During the start of WWII, Japan herded many of it's Christian citizens into Nagasaki. When we dropped the bomb, we eleminated a majority of the Christian population. Personally, I think dropping the bomb was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but I do wish it was dropped somewhere else.

[Arnobius]

That's definitely something to think about. One reason Japan has a small amount of Christians might also have to do with the bombing of Nagasaki. During the start of WWII, Japan herded many of it's Christian citizens into Nagasaki. When we dropped the bomb, we eleminated a majority of the Christian population. Personally, I think dropping the bomb was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but I do wish it was dropped somewhere else.

True. From what I understood Nagasaki had essentially little or no military value. It was the secondary target (the primary targeted city was obscured by clouds). I also understand that once the bomb was armed, nobody wanted to land with it still on board. Terrible loss of life, but still, there weren't really any options to be had when the Japanese propaganda was proclaiming "an entire nation to commit suicide" and training even young girls to attack the enemy with bamboo spears...

[shooraijin]

Excellent URL. Thanks.

[Tommy]

Um.......we`re slightly off topic. Back to Grandia please.

[Tommy]

Ok, I beat Grandia 2 awhile ago and now I JUST FINISHED Disc 1 of Grandia 1. I think GameArts makes kind of a big deal that there`s more than one disc because on disc two the music is like all different and all that.

If this game was remade for the PS2 it would be better than the 2nd. The main reasons I like the second better are graphics, and I like the way you learn special moves alot better. i herd Grandia Xtreme like Grandia II has an incredicbly easy last boss. You don`t have to tell me who but someone tell me how hard the last boss is. It also seems this game is alot more challenging already.

[Debitt]

Grandia Xtreme is just inferior to the other 2 games in general. >.> I'd personally suggest that you spend your money on something better if even one fleeting thought of buying it enters your head. ^_^; But in the end that's your decision.

[Chosen Raven]

I haven't heard much good about Grandia Xtreme. From what I understand, it's basically a dungeon-crawler with very little story. It does have some star voice talent, though(Mark Hamil for one).

[Debitt]

I haven't heard much good about Grandia Xtreme. From what I understand, it's basically a dungeon-crawler with very little story. It does have some star voice talent, though(Mark Hamil for one).

=P Yeah, but how often do you buy a game based on the voice talent? Personally I think the ability to combine mana eggs was the one good point of the game (ie, stick A Egg and B Egg into a machine and get AB Egg). Everything else was pretty much flat. I played through about a third of the game. Saw no story. Saw no character development. Felt the battle system was a perversion of Grandia II's near perfect battle system. =/ Should have returned it, but oh well.

[Rysing_Furi]

I heard that grandia was kinda lame, is that true? I mean, obviously I don't go by reviews alone I like to make my own opinion, but whats good about it?

[Arnobius]

I heard that grandia was kinda lame, is that true? I mean, obviously I don't go by reviews alone I like to make my own opinion, but whats good about it?

Well, despite the moral flaws debated earlier, some of the sub plots had some outstanding stories. The arcs about melfice and about the Eye of Valmar were very well written. If it weren't for the portrayal of a Christian style religion, I'd call Grandia II a classic.

[Tommy]

One thing I don`t understand:

*Spoilers of Grandia I* I`m in the middle of Grandia I and it`s become very obvious to me that the "best love story in gaming" which was quoted by someone here is between Justin and Feena. on`t get me wrong it, but when I saw the booklet on the way home from buying it it seemed obvious to me they would be a couple, but when i saw how young Justin seemed and how old and mature Feena seemed when you met her on the ship that pairing seemed impossible.

But after that boat scene on the way to Pirate Island at the end of Disc 1 I become 1000% sure this was THE couple. Does anyone know how old the two characters were designed to be? It reminds me of Star Wars: Episode 1 and 2: How could Anankin age that fast with Queen Ama- whatever not looking a day older?

Also I`ve notices there`s some 'things' in Grandia I that are slightly inapropriate that weren`t in the 2nd one. I find it odd that Grandia I was rated E and the second was T.

[Chosen Raven]

Does anyone know how old the two characters were designed to be?

Justine is 15 and Feena is 17.

Also I`ve notices there`s some 'things' in Grandia I that are slightly inapropriate that weren`t in the 2nd one. I find it odd that Grandia I was rated E and the second was T.

Just toss it up to the wierdness of the rating system. The new E10+ rating should stop things like this from happening in the future.

[greyscale42]

Wow Grandia II. Fond memories. I played it for the Dreamcast.

[Tommy]

Spolier I guess...


So is Mullen like the Sephiroth in this game or is Baal. Also no one ever answered my question:
Is the last boss simple or is he a tuffie? You don`t have to tell me who or what it is.

[Debitt]

Wow Grandia II. Fond memories. I played it for the Dreamcast.

*high fives greyscale42* Go Dreamcast!

[Chosen Raven]

So is Mullen like the Sephiroth in this game or is Baal.

Niether really have that much in common with Sephiroth. But if you mean "like Sephiroth" as in the uber-powerful-swordsman-you-won't-be-capable-of-beating-until-you're-almost-through-with-the-game, then that would be Mullen.

Is the last boss simple or is he a tuffie?

For me, he was easy. I don't know if I spent more time on leveling-up than most, or maybe I was just lucky.

[Tommy]

Yeah, thanks TO SOME PEOPLE not putting Spolier tags up or just writing spoiler i found out that:

Spoiler: Baal is regenerating a creature called Gaia which is fimilair to me because it`s the name of a planet on FF9.

Yeah, it seems like Mullen and Sephiroth have some similarites. I`m wondering right now if Leen joins your side or stays evil......DON`T TELL ME! End Of Spolier

Current Grandia Status fir me (they`re could be Spoilers):

Grandia I: Just met that milda girl and I`m in the Tower Doom. I haven`t been playing Grandia that much because I`m currently occupied with Star Ocean: Till The End of Time which has my favorite battle system of an RPG. Way better than Grandia.

Grandia II: Beaten. The last boss in appearence was quite a dissapointment.

Grandia Xtreme: Did I tell you guys the story about how I got Star Ocean: Till The End of time? Well, it has a lot to do with this game. And I may be uying GX for myself today. If you guys wanna know the story let me know. I think I probably put it up on the 1st post. I`m not sure.

[Tommy]

Yeah it was in the first post.

[Tommy]

Sephiroth Simularity:

SPOLIER: i noticed that Mullen is half human half whatever race his mother was and they had wings. Also, Mullen is a swordsman. A swordsman with a big shiny blade of power. If he end up growing ONE WING then I have to blame Square-Enix for being to stupid not to sue. This game did come out after FF7, but less than a year though.
Also, I saw the part when Leen turns into an Icardian. Was this already explained or will it be later? Wouldn`t Feena be an Icardian. I also read that -sniff- Leen died in some Walkthru and I was scrolling to see where I was and I saw : The Death of Lt. Leen. *End of Spolier*

Who else thinks it`s pathetic all the FF games (7 through 10 and to come) are better than this in graphics all around. I that`s the case, how come this game has voice effects? Could they have put to much monet in the graphics or did they just wanna keep it old school?
the FF games not afford that because they spent too much money on the gr

[Chosen Raven]

*SPOILERS*

Also, I saw the part when Leen turns into an Icardian. Was this already explained or will it be later? Wouldn`t Feena be an Icardian.

It's explained later. You may not want to ask questions like this until after you finish the game(if such questions remain).

I also read that -sniff- Leen died in some Walkthru and I was scrolling to see where I was and I saw : The Death of Lt. Leen.

That's the hazard of reading game guides. While trying to find the information you want, you'll run across the information you don't want.

Could they have put to much monet in the graphics or did they just wanna keep it old school?

Using polygons would have meant abandoning the anime feel they were going for. They also wanted to make a fully 3D world, so that meant they couldn't have FF7's pre-rendered back-grounds. Though you may think the graphics are bad compared to the games of its time, it was considered by most to have great graphics. Its fully-polygonal world was seen as highly detailed. As were the character sprites(which were much more expressive than FF7s bland polygonal characters). It was the first game of it's type. A fully 3D RPG.

[Tommy]

Cool. So I am now currently in the Warp Space Town and i keep going in circles. Anyone gonna help?

[Chosen Raven]

Cool. So I am now currently in the Warp Space Town and i keep going in circles. Anyone gonna help?

I remember lots of story elements from the game, but I remember squat about the dungeons. I haven't played the game in around 5 years. I lent it to my cousin who lives in another state thinking I would see him again in a year. I left alot of good games with him.

This discussion has inspired me to re-buy the game, though. It should arrive in a few days(if it doesn't get lost in the mail).

[Tommy]

Is it just me or ARE me Chosen R. the only peoples in this thread........whatever.

I might be getting Xtreme today: Hurray!

[Tommy]

I have a different name for this thread in mind. can you edit the name?

[Tommy]

I`ve been looking for Grandia Xtreme forever. Every store I`ve tried has the box on display but they don`t have the disc. They all have 'Grandia Xtreme' though.

Is it even in America?

I`d hate to find out I`ve been searching for something that doesn`t exsist in my own country. Maybe they just got the boxes from Japan.

And if it is in America, is everything in Japanese. Like the name of moves or what the characters names are? Someone help.

[Debitt]

Grandia XTreme is indeed in the US in full blown English (whether that's a good thing or not is beyond me) Personally I don't think it's worth your money, but check out the box and figure out whether you're interested or not. ^^;

[Tommy]

I did look at the box and I`m interested. Does anyone know what store it would be in?

[MasterDias]

Well, here we go...

Square Enix Announces Grandia 3
Third entry in GameArts RPG series set to arrive from Final Fantasy publisher.

March 30, 2005 - As if Final Fantasy XII, Phantasy Star Universe and Kingdom Hearts II weren't enough, PS2-owning role playing fans have even more to look forward to in 2005. Set to debut in the upcoming issue of Japan's Famitsu magazine is Grandia III, the next entry in the GameArts RPG series that started on the Saturn.

We'll have a full report on the game once we have the magazine in our hands, but here are a few tantalizing details that we've heard through various reliable sources. Grandia III takes the series into the skies for an adventure featuring, as its hero, a 16-year-old adventurer called Yuuki. Yuuki will be joined by at least two other characters, Alfeena and her brother, Emerius. These three will travel across the seas, continents and through the skies, making use of ships and planes.

The game's battle system is said to be an evolution over the semi real-time battles of the previous games. Characters and enemies are placed on a time bar that dictates when they'll be moving, although the interface has apparently been changed so the time bar is now circular. New features include counter attacks, cancel attacks, and even aerial combos.

In somewhat of a twist, it turns out that Square Enix will be publishing the title. While this isn't too surprising considering that Enix published Grandia Xtreme, an offshoot title that focused on battles, it is a bit strange seeing the Square and GameArts names on the same game, since the two companies were considered RPG development rivals during the Saturn/PlayStation days.

In addition to the report in Famitsu, Square Enix has revealed that it will make available the first video footage of Grandia III at its website from between 4/28 and 5/8.

Taken from: IGN

...and take a look at these scans.

http://squarenet.gamigo.de/main.php?site=sn-news&id=1559

It's looking very nice.