Boycott travel to Alaska

[Heart of Sword]

This is not a "politics" thread so it should not be locked.

The governor of Alaska is going to allow hunters to murder 900 wolves this winter from airplanes! So basically the wolf murders are starting again. Please boycott travel to Alaska so that he might change his mind!

If you want to write a letter, search for "Alaska shooting of wolves" in google.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

... poor wolves! lets stop them! or atleast try to!

[GhostontheNet]

I will admit that killing 900 wolves to allow for more moose for hunters (as opposed to allowing their survival in an area) is a bleak concept. However, from what I'd seen from a google search on "900 wolves" (which in the first few pages turned up exclusively things related to this) revealed a number of entries, but all written with a very similar rhetorical syle, which I think is a bad sign. Also, the closest thing I could find to a formal news article was by "Indy Media".

[cbwing0]

For the sake of balance, here is the Alaskan government's side of the story: http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/management/fur/wolf-pol.cfm

The article does make a good point: the primary purpose of controlling the wolf population is to allow the prey populations to increase to their natural levels. In other words, they are killing wolves to save the lives of other animal species (not just for hunting).

My own view on the subject is that the government should take steps to preserve the populations of all animals, not just wolves. Allowing nature to take its own course would be best, but if that is not feasible then it may be necessary for man to intervene. I should also say that I have no qualms about killing animals, especially when they threaten humans (not to say that that is the case here, but as a general rule).

I have relatives in Alaska, so I have been there a few times. If I get the chance I will go again, whether or not the government decides to kill wolves.

[battletech]

I do not like the idea, but I understand why.
It is just like here in Florida when there is alligator season.
Wolves and alligators are protected and because of this they have no enemies to control there population.

[Stephen]

I hate wolves, so I think its a great idea as a hunter...and I think if half the bleeding hearts that are so in love with wolves knew what they did to other animals..the crap romance would come to an end. Wolves are a nasty, pest...who really...should not be coddled by the government...but people are so in love with seeing the things that they help boost there population. But, if any of you had a farm where you had these beasts terrorizing you...you might see it different. Or maybe not. Some are so blind with fantasy romance toward wolves they would die before touching a hair on there mangy head. And please, someone smite me with the line about Wolves having as much right as humans do....read your Bible.

[Fsiphskilm]

DO NOT TELL irewolf!

If she finds this say it was a joke, and ask a mod to move it into the goof-off forum.
Personally I love wolves, but I understand the situation... from a plane? That's kind of... weird.

I thnk what shatterheart said is an Eye-opener. Very true statement about today's Society, Sort of like Squirrels. Cute but terrorize other critters.

I like wolves because they look pretty, but I'd much prefer doggies

[termyt]

Hmm. With a large pro-wolf population here, this is a touchy subject. I can see this turning into a flame war quickly, especially since sparks are already flying. A "wolves are disgusting" post is not the most tactful or inviting route to go with considering the size and popularity of the CAA Wolf Pack.

Can we turn this into a productive discussion about conservation?

I myself am not a big conservationist. Nature's own nature causes and is dependant on change. The conservationist model is more along the lines of "this forest should stay exactly like it is so future generations can enjoy it, too." I think that approach is just as damaging as clear cutting forests.

One the other side, we, as humans given dominion over the Earth by God, have an interest in maintaining an environment that is best suited to our needs and the needs of the ecosystem.

It generally does not benefit man to meddle at all in an ecosystem. It usually ends badly. Think killer bees, tent caterpillars, and mosquitoes. None of which belong in North America.

However, it does not benefit man to allow an ecosystem to crumble because of the pressure he places on it, either.

The situation now is a confusing mass caused by generations of man's intervention in nature.

1) Wolves were a threat, so they were hunted and destroyed to near the point of extinction.
2) We realized that we didn't hate wolves so much to the point that we wished they'd be wiped off the planet, and they really weren't a big threat any more, so we forced people exercising option 1 to stop.
3) Changes to the ecosystem left little to curb wolf populations since humans were now prohibited from doing so. Result - wolf population explosion.
4) Wolves are now a threat, to both us and to the continued survival of the other wild life.

It seems something must be done. Curb the wolf population or allow it to go unchecked - endangering other species and perhaps humans when starving wolves come into cities looking for food.

My reasoning begs a question. Why 900 wolves? I believe there's some thought going into that. They may be wrong, but I'm guessing that it is their level best at finding a number that will not endanger the wolf population yet will allow other animals to compete for the resources they need for survival.

[Stephen]

Dident the Lord kill somthing to make clothing for Adam and Eve? That was simply for clothing. That animal dident attack anyone. I live in a state where the govt has been bringing wolves in for quite some time. That, and them coming down from Canada. I don't consider my hatred of wolves blind at all. Its quite focused. I am a hunter. Wolves kill the game I kill. Thus, putting us on opposite sides. That, mixed with the fact that wolves are a pest...as any farmer would tell you....sadly does not allow me to live the fairy tale disney dream of snuggling with wolves. Sorry. I am also sorry if my posts offend some of you...its not my intention my any means. I suppose if someone called there group the rats....and brought up cool things about rats...the group would get angry if I posted my views on rats. Man kill animals...its been that way since the start of time...I do not agree with mass murder of any species...however...calling hunters murderers when you fail to even begin to understand the issue at hand...is very wrong.

My reasoning begs a question. Why 900 wolves? I believe there's some thought going into that. They may be wrong, but I'm guessing that it is their level best at finding a number that will not endanger the wolf population yet will allow other animals to compete for the resources they need for survival.

Bingo. Many times in areas certain animals need to be killed for a variety of reasons. Around here...some years they give out more Moose permits or Doe permits because people are getting killed hitting them on roads. As long as man lives on this earth...he will be fighting with all predator species.

[Retten]

Killing these wolves may very well save them in the end...thats all I have to say think it over. (and yes I loves wolves I wish this didnt have to happen)

[CobaltAngel]

so they're going to kill wolves to let human hunters have more game? i thought the wolves could just decrease naturally. the less game there is out there, the less food for the wolves, so the old and weak ones could just die naturally and the females not reproduce as much because of the scarcity of food.

I don't know about Alaska, but this is true in most places. It works like this:

There is alot of a prey, so the predator has lots to eat and their population goes up. But then, they kill off alot of their prey, so they don't have enough to eat and begin to die off. This alows the prey to increase in numbers so the process can start all over again. It's circular... like... a circle. <.< >.> *makes a circle in the air with her fingers*

[Jman]

save the wolfies!

[Zarn Ishtare]

Sigh...I feel the flame wars coming already...Shatterheart, I respect your views, having grown up in the country where wolves were really pests (Missouri has a bunch) and I've lived on a farm with hunters before, so I know how they kill your game. However, you should have alittle more respect for those who see this as abominable. I don't believe any of us are "Wrapped up in some Fantasy" about wolves, but many of us (Including myself) believe that Nature should take its course. The Goverment is trying to eliminate the Hunters competition for game. With Wolves on one side and hunters on the other, they fear the possible extinction of certain species which both sides hunt. HOWEVER....Hunters have other options. Hunters can buy food. Hunters can hunt elsewhere. Wolves, however, are very territorial. Occasionally, in my expieirance, they'll move, but mostly they'll stay where they are. Also, they do not hunt for sport, or for fun. They hunt for food. So perhaps hunters are merely inflicting their selfish ways on the wolves so they can get more game? Think about it.

Zarn

[Mithrandir]

Oh yeah, this will be a fun thread.

Wolf lovers: Here's all the reasons we shouldn't do this!
Wolf haters: Here's the reasons we should!
Wolf lovers: You're mean!
Wolf haters: You're blind!
Wolf lovers: You didn't even read our reasons!
Wolf haters: You won't even consider mine!

Yeah, this's going to be a fun topic.

<.<

>.>

[Zarn Ishtare]

Well, Oldphil, if its such a glaring pimple on the face of CAA, lock it or delete it. We can always take this to the chatroom....(Shudders) I had really hoped we could simply discuss this issue...but with a mod one one of the sides, I can already hear the catcalls of favoritism...It won't be, but thats what people might call it. Shatterheart, I mean no disrespect. I see why your right and I see why we are right. But it really doesn't matter...Besides boycotting it, we can do nothing about it, so why argue?
Zarn

[Stephen]

Actaully whoever said without prey wolves die off is a bit wrong. They simply find other prey. Hope your not too attached to that little dog or cat you keep around your house. Because to a wolf....there a big fat cheesy poof. And sorry to disapoint you Zarn, but I am more important then a wolf. Thus if I want to hunt Deer in an area...the wolf can deal with it. But since quite apparently your not a hunter...I can never expect you to understand.

They hunt for food. So perhaps hunters are merely inflicting their selfish ways on the wolves so they can get more game? Think about it.

Spoken like a true animal lover...and thats fine...but please, give the "murdering hunters" bit a rest. I will say this...remember your feelings on us murdering hunters next time you eat some beef, chicken, pork...heh all those were cute baby animals at some point.

[Zarn Ishtare]

I never said I didn't hunt. I enjoy the hunt, and I am a member of the NRA. However, I realize that their is a balance, and I believe it is being violated. However, like I said, neither of us nor anyone on this board can do a thing about it, so why argue? And I didn't say I wouldn't kill a wolf if it tried to kill any of my animals...I'm a good shot with a rifle, and a wolf can't dodge bullets forever. And I did not say wolves were more important than you or any human alive. What I did say is that they are in a sense in the right, and we are in the wrong. They do what they do to survive, not so they can go home and put that twelve point rack over the fire place. Now, I sense that this thread is reaching a boiling point, and I am going to leave. But Shatterheart, remember that we have our opinions too, and no matter how strongly you feel we are wrong, that gives you no leave to insult our intelligence or make us out to be fools. While that is probably not your intent, the phrasing and the wording of your arguements more than suggest it. Now, I feel that their has been enough division in the Body over this foolish issue, so I'll withdraw.


P.S. And I realize that what I'm eating used to be cute baby animals. I grew up on a farm for a third of my life, ya know. But this isn't about eating, its about sport, and theirs a line that sport should stop at.
Zarn.

[Jaltus-bot]

What do the hunters do after they kill the wolf? Do they do anything with it?

[Fsiphskilm]

Hunters don't just kill for sport, Shoot I'd rather have Natural Meat than the stuff they sell at the market. all pumped full of hormones and crap.

(oh yea, my addiction to CAA is giving me withdrawls. So currently I'm lurking and posting a bit here and there) couldn't help it :Grin:

[Fsiphskilm]

banned already? wow that was quick. I hope he/she wasn't banned just for liking marylin Manson, Sadly i know ""christians"" who like him.

*thinks back to IM chat with stranger*... I hope that's not her.

Anyway, Hunters are an importnat ecosystem factor. Without them game would run wild and reproduce like crazy, fortunatly each year the animal type and number is released by the wild-life reserve, which tells hunters how much of what they can hunt so that the wild-life stays in balance.

Weather for sport or for food, hunters are important.

[Raiden no Kishi]

So is spamming.

[Technomancer]

The question that ultimately matters as far as the hunt goes, is how large of an impact will this have on the wolf population? Is it reasonable cull, and will it threaten the viability of the Alaskan wolf population? For most of us the practical issues are remote, since hunting (for many) is a sport and not a necessity of life. This isn't true in the north though since many people's livelihoods really do depend on hunting or trapping. It matters to them both on an immediate level in the sense of food or direct income, as well as on a business level in the form of hunting/fishing lodges which bring in much needed revenue to these regions.

As a result, a cull of the wolf population may be a reasonable proposition depending on their numbers. In the same fashion, the Canadian government recently approved an expanded seal hunt to limit predation on local cod stocks. However, the existance of predators is important to the ecosystem in its own right, since they also "manage" prey species. After all, these ecosystems were regulating themselves long before humans arrived on the scene (Lokta-Volterra cycles are fun...). Human pertubations on such a self-regulating system can unforseen and potentially deletrious consequences, so caution should be exercised.

At the same time, one feels that the world would be a poorer place without these creatures or without some places where we have not regulated and parcelled the earth for our particular convenience. If we have been appointed stewards of this planet, then we should remember that much of what lives and breathes on it does so for its own sake, without any concern for us. We are their caretakers too.

[CreatureArt]

oh and on the original idea of this thread: "Boycott travel to Alaska" that should be quite easy considering the fact that i doubt that many of us were planning to travel there in the first place... just a thought..

ROFL
Yep, I'd rather stay here and enjoy the summer than go visit icy Alaska. .

Hmmm... got to agree with many points made here. Yes, God gave us dominion over animals so we are to look after them and are permitted to kill for our needs etc. - but we aren't supposed to elevate them above humans.

We don't have wolves in NZ but someone asked a question about using a helicopter to kill the wolves from - over here helicopters are used in the South Island for deer hunting/trapping. It's also used to elimate escaped deer (especially males) that can prove a danger when they get out of farms and can't be recaptured. So it's not impossible or out of the question to use a helicopter.

[Fireproof]

Not to be mean, but some states pass legislation with consequences that could be much more drastic than this, yet no-one boycotts travel to those states. I understand you love wolves, but it's not as if they're an endangered species. It's a shame, yes, but not a disaster.

[Destroyer2000]

Flame wars, so much fun.

Seriously. Wolves are just animals - God gave us dominion over animals. I don't believe in the entire elimination of animal species, but at times it is necessary, and if I get involved, I would do my part. I live nowhere near Alaska, so I know little of this situation, but...if the wolves are killing off prey up there, and the prey is becoming scarce, the wolves should be eliminated to some extent. Many people in Alaska rely on wildlife for food.

[Uriah]

I'm confused... They're shooting wolves from airplanes? Honestly.. That sounds sort of intertaining..

Forgive my lack of a heart, but I don't really get why this is worth boycotting air travel.

[glitch1501]

i dont know about the whole wolf thing, but im going to alaska this summer on a mission trip

[Retten]

You know with all these posts written here I am thinking of writing my own little article on the subject even though I originally said would stay out. But I have come to the conclusion that (correct me If I am wrong) that I am the only hunter on here that also likes wolves....but it would take awhile to type and I am not sure if anybody even cares about my point of view on this matter so I guess I'll think it over.....

@ Uriah shooting animals from planes is plain slaughter and not in the least amusing -_-

[Stephen]

You know I may draw some heat for this. But I am gonna go ahead and lock this thread. Both sides have shot there cannons so to speak. At this point...its degrading more and more into a petty fight...(myself included in this) Passing over the debate of the need for hunters, the need for wolves...the original intent of the first post has been debated enough. I would hope all partys concerned would realise that boycotting travel to a state over an issue like this is silly....and we all agree that the genocide of a species is wrong. So I ask that all further debate on the matter be taken to private messaging. I have been asked by a few members to delete this...but I think for the sake of clarity to show no hard feelings towards any party...the thread will be left as is simply locked.