question relating homosexuality

Postby **Mr. SmartyPants** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:51 pm

homosexuality = sin... True!

but... is the fact that someone is attracted to the same sex a sin? or is the act upon it (as in sex with someone else of the same gender) the actual sin?

Postby **agasfas** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:48 pm

I believe it both the thought and the act of doing so that makes it a sin. I say this b/c God says that :

You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. ( Matthew 5:27-28)
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Leviticus 18:22 states "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13 adds a penalty and states "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death..."
Matthew 19:4-6: Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife...
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Personal opinion:
I don't believe god made homosexuals or bi-sexuals. Why would he condem us before we are to be born? I personally believe that people become like this b/c of society and whatever else we feed into our minds: tv, movies, music etc. Science has yet to give evidence of it being genetic, it's all hypothosised but not proven. I dont think you can actually find a genetic disorder like this. Aside, God doesn't say anything about people being born w/ abonormal hormone mis-balance or people born w/ both male and female parts. So it's hard to say. But if one commits adultery by just thinking of it, it's a sin. Same w/ homosexuality. But it is for God to deside what is right and wrong, not me. All one can do is pray and put it into Gods hands. I hope this may help.
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Postby **PrincessZelda** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:53 pm

Oui. I agree with what he said.

Postby **Slater** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:55 pm

also read the end of Romans 1...

Postby **Swordguy** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:03 pm

in james 1:13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

well i belive we all will be tempted by sin but it is when we start to go alone and play with the idea that it is sin. don't let any sin entice you give it to God at the first sign of temtation

Postby **agasfas** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:17 pm

james 1:13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed

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nice, agreed.
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Postby **CDLviking** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:49 pm

I agree that lust is just as bad as commiting the act, but lust and attraction are not the same thing. In order for something to be a sin it must be an act of the will, which can not always be said for attraction. Disordered yes, but not necessarily sinful, though acting on it of course would be. I also do not believe that God makes people homosexuals, though it may be possible that circumstances beyond their control led to their disordered desire.

Postby **Mr. SmartyPants** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:03 am

i see, thanks guys

Postby **desperado** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:12 am

yes in it is a sad measure of a churchs faith when they let a homosexual into the pastorship

Postby **Ingemar** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:29 am

Well, everyone else said what I would've said.

But I must add something. It is this. Modern society (well, the West anyway) wishes to naturalize homosexuality. The argument is 1). No one is getting hurt, anyway and 2). Sexual morality is an outmoded practice instituted by a repressive institution (the Catholic church or Christianity in general). My argument against these is this: 1). If God, as the Jews, Christians and even Muslims know Him exists, those who practice willful disobedience of His commandments will be seriously 'hurt' in the World to Come. Also, condoms don't work 100%--the chance of STD is always there. 2). If the Church is a repressive institution for seeing to its laity living holy, wholesome lives devoted to God, then families should also be considered the same for training children to be orderly members of society. Same for the government. Like the Church, the family sets up rules for proper conduct for its members and prevents them from doing whatever the heck it wants so that its members will be good people. The Church is a little different, because its final goal is communion with Christ.

I know my argument may be a little holey, but bear with me: I'm still sick.

I am also amazed that so many wish to revise the Sodom and Gomorrah episode to make it look like God was punishing the twin cities for their hospitality (well, lack of it). It makes people uncomfortable that God once annihilated two cities for their utter depravity.

Also, I am for "gay" clergy if and ONLY if 1). they keep their vows of chastity and 2). they teach their parishoners that the practice of homosexuality is a sin. No rationalization like the Episcopal church.

The West has been sliding down that slippery slope for decades now. I hope to God we don't become another Sodom.

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:18 pm

thank you guys for not turning this into debate!! I was afraid I'd have to close it.

Postby **Kat Walker** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:38 pm

I am also amazed that so many wish to revise the Sodom and Gomorrah episode to make it look like God was punishing the twin cities for their hospitality (well, lack of it). It makes people uncomfortable that God once annihilated two cities for their utter depravity.

You've brushed upon a good point here. Society has become so defensive of homosexuality (and similar practices as well) people think it's perfectly reasonable for God to erradicate cities because the people weren't polite enough...yet it's stupid and bigoted to claim that He wiped them out for being totally evil, demented, and sick? This kind of thinking scares me.

It's not as though homosexuality was the sole reason for Sodom and Gomorrah's demise anyway, that was just an example of one of their MANY grevious sins. The bizarre reinterpretations of that passage have become far too much of a gay agenda thing, IMHO.

As for my stance on homosexuality, it doesn't bother me in the sense that I don't cringe if I see a same-sex couple holding hands. Trust me, the thought of two guys or two girls going at it does not keep me up at night. I believe that everyone is entitled to salvation, no matter how far or how hard they might fall every now and again, gays included. We all sin in one way or another, gays just happen to be in a very, VERY inconvenient situation -- they can't really conciously put a stop to their sins.

Yes, we are all accountable for our actions, but homosexuality takes a lot of time, dedication, patience, faith, and obedience to God to overcome...sometimes it may take years before a person finds themself able to open up to a natural relationship, and others might just wake up the next morning miraculously 'cured'. It's a sensitive topic because so many gays may feel bitter or depressed that they cannot have the love and affection in a relationship that heterosexuals take for granted, and they may also feel that from all the negative pressure they recieve from some Christians that God does not care a whit about them. That is how gays turn away from God, or for those that still desperately crave Him, will try to rationalize their lifestyle while still remaining Christian.

I think all gays, whether openly proud, still in the closet, or even in a relationship or with a family should be encouraged to attend church. No, I'm not saying compromise the Bible or sexual morality..sin is sin is sin, and that will always be an issue in a fallen world. But salvation and compassion is what we ought to be working towards. Let God be the judge. Let the Holy Spirit condemn. Let the sacrifice of the Son bring conviction into people's hearts.

When people love God, they want to listen to Him. When they listen to the Truth, they're set free.

Postby **Mr. SmartyPants** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:51 pm

Kat Walker wrote:As for my stance on homosexuality, it doesn't bother me in the sense that I don't cringe if I see a same-sex couple holding hands. Trust me, the thought of two guys or two girls going at it does not keep me up at night. I believe that everyone is entitled to salvation, no matter how far or how hard they might fall every now and again, gays included. We all sin in one way or another, gays just happen to be in a very, VERY inconvenient situation -- they can't really conciously put a stop to their sins.

i agree with ya! I dont "cringe" either, but i know it's wrong

we haveta look upon all people with hope, and the same love that God gave us

Postby **EireWolf** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:33 pm

Well said, Kat.

Postby **Fsiphskilm** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:19 pm

HOLD on let me find that thread...
I'll post up here in just a bit

Okay here it is...
http://www.christiananime.com/showpost. ... ostcount=9

Postby **agasfas** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:17 pm

I believe that everyone is entitled to salvation, no matter how far or how hard they might fall every now and again, gays included. We all sin in one way or another, gays just happen to be in a very, VERY inconvenient situation

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I agree. Everyone should be entitled to salvation. Because in all honesty we all fall away from God at one point in our lives or another. As long as we keep praying and put our faith into God everything will work out in the end. I will admit i'm strongly against the homosexual lifestyle, but i don't hate them. I just disprove of their livestyle. I can strongly disaprove the way of life, but still respect the person. Jesus taught us to love everyone regardless. And i agree. By not hating people it makes it easier for non-believers and homosexuals to turn to God in time of need and forgivenss.
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thank you guys for not turning this into debate!! I was afraid I'd have to close it.

I would also like to thank everyone for not turning this into a debate. It's always good to have a conversation w/o having conflicts arise. Y'all ROCK!
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Postby **Destroyer2000** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:30 pm

I hate to be the one that turns this topic upside down, but I must stand up for my beliefs. How is it that gays cannot conciously put a stop to their sins? I DO cringe when I see homosexual couples. I do it because they have taken God's gift and grossly twisted it around to where it is unrecognizable. Sexual love for another person was meant to be between a man and a woman. Not man and man or woman and woman. Adam and Eve - not Adam and Steve.

And Ingemar, on the gay clergy topic - I am against them. Remember the passage about 'false teachers'? Also, the one about removing the speck in your brothers eye when you have a plank in your own? If someone is openly (or privately) homosexual, they are sinning. Sinners cannot stand up in a pulpit and preach the gospel about condeming others' sins when they themselves need to ask for forgiveness. It seems to me that some churches are in a state of rapid moral decline. Things need to be changed - and quickly.

Postby **Mr. SmartyPants** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:37 pm

hmmmm, destroyer, turning away from sin isn't easy! And homosexuality isn't something you can try to stop.

this next statement is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL, SO PLEASE DON'T BE SCARED!
lets say same-sex couples were not a sin, but opposite-sex couples were. Can you imagine how hard it would be to change your biology, and to make yourself attract to the same sex? It would be very hard indeed.

EVERYONE wants to feel loved. So of course, everyone meets another person. And boom, they become a couple

Postby **Destroyer2000** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:42 pm

Changing your biology does not apply to same sex couples. It might if you believed the genetic theory, but that is obviously false. I am also well aware that turning away from sin is not easy. I am very aware...more than I'd like to be.

Postby **Locke** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:50 pm

i really felt what Volt said, coming from a guy that *thought he was gay*

but now,

I've almost forgeten that i ever had that struggle. I'll always remember what that felt like,(that's a good thing) because I can connect with other's like me and actually be able to tell them "I know how you feel". Today, I'm very secure, extremely secure about my sexuality. All that stuff is in the past, almost like it never happened. You'd think i was just a normal guy.

Volt said that

thats how i felt too.

kinda like when Peter Parker gave up being Spiderman ( =] ) i felt free of a burden that was too large for me and i gave it to God and he *poof* BYE BYE gay thougths!! :sweat:

Postby **Mr. SmartyPants** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:09 pm

Locke wrote:i really felt what Volt said, coming from a guy that *thought he was gay*

but now,

Volt said that

thats how i felt too.

kinda like when Peter Parker gave up being Spiderman ( =] ) i felt free of a burden that was too large for me and i gave it to God and he *poof* BYE BYE gay thougths!!

omg.... everyone uses the Peter Parker giving up Spiderman example in church! what a coinkidink!

Postby **true_noir_chloe** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:31 pm

Man = sin
Christ = salvation

Homosexual (and you) = sin

I'm not so sure I agreed with your beginning equation Mr. Smarty Pants. I do, however, love your avatar.

There are no graduations of sin. Man is a "sinner." It's not what sin have you committed. It's the fact that you are just that - a "sinner." (Romans 3:10-18)

I never understand how we love to demonize certain sin types. Sin is always sin. It is all depraved and ugly. I am a sinner saved by grace.

Kat wrote:I think all gays, whether openly proud, still in the closet, or even in a relationship or with a family should be encouraged to attend church. No, I'm not saying compromise the Bible or sexual morality..sin is sin is sin, and that will always be an issue in a fallen world. But salvation and compassion is what we ought to be working towards. Let God be the judge. Let the Holy Spirit condemn. Let the sacrifice of the Son bring conviction into people's hearts.

When people love God, they want to listen to Him. When they listen to the Truth, they're set free.

Amen, Kat. If you go to anyone in a spirit of love and not condemnation, you will be a much more effective witness. All need to know their state(sinner going to hell), not having their sins pointed out(look at what you do). There is a distinct difference.

Postby **Fsiphskilm** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:50 am

Well Everything I sad in that post was true... I "thought" i was gay but really wasn't but then again. there's that Flashback -> The one that happened at age 4. So that right there prooves that I actually was gay for a period of time before I relized I had a struggle.

for about 4 years of the 6 I was in deep thought over all this. I really was Gay. Fighting it every step of the way, but I did have the Mind, Sexuality, and Temptations that the average gay had. So rather than saying "there was nothing wrong with me, it was all in my mind" it was more of a "I really was gay, and I actually did have a battle to fight, and i did WIN"

[indent]That's what I've been trying to figure out for the longest time -> how is possible that i had these thoughts and temptations at age 4? The only way to explain it is this ->evil spirits<- they usually pic on kids at young age so they can hook onto them later on in life.[/indent]

But I do beleive that all people have the intuition that being Gay is wrong... Every single gay and lesbian has had a "Battle" before. And While it "isn't Easy", they still have no excuse for giving up. But then again, it's difficult, gays still don't know that there's a way out. So for them, they think they are stuck with it, and so they just try to make the best of things by giving in. It's sad.

Postby **Zane** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:18 am

We live in a fallen world, its cursed because of our rejection of God and is falling into decay, sin corrupts everything.. EVERYTHING.
Deformed children, tooth decay, diseases, our moral judgment, and I believe if sin has already attacked our bodys metally, spiritually, and physically, it will also do it physicologically. In that I think sin has corrupted people's sexual desires aswell, which is pretty evident, really. So some-one might have an actually chemical imbalance which makes him/her attracted to the same sex, and that begin the result of sin. We're all sinful from birth, the chances that some people are physicologically sinful (ie gay), be it due to a biological stuff-up or whatever doesn't put them in a different boat from straight sinners. We're all sinners, some physically, we all deserve death, so theres no differnece.

Thank God for Christ!!

Postby **Warrior 4 Jesus** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:37 am

All sinners should be able to attend church. I mean the whole purpose of being a Christian is to praise God and evangelise to the 'sick' like Christ did. What I do have a problem with is homosexual pastors or whatever.

Postby **Locke** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:21 am

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:omg.... everyone uses the Peter Parker giving up Spiderman example in church! what a coinkidink!

*anime fall*

Postby **Raiden no Kishi** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:19 am

Kat Walker wrote:Gays just happen to be in a very, VERY inconvenient situation -- they can't really conciously put a stop to their sins.

And what, may I ask, would make you believe this? Sin is a choice. You can choose to or choose not to. Yes it's hard - trust me, I of all should know - but they CAN consciously stop it.

Rai

Postby **agasfas** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:23 am

I hate to be the one that turns this topic upside down, but I must stand up for my beliefs. How is it that gays cannot conciously put a stop to their sins? I DO cringe when I see homosexual couples. I do it because they have taken God's gift and grossly twisted it around to where it is unrecognizable. Sexual love for another person was meant to be between a man and a woman.

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I totally agree w/ you. I believe one should stand up for ones belief and i also cringe a little when i see a homosexual couple b/c i see it as wrong. But we are all born into sin, thus we should all be able to forgive on another just like Jesus forgave everyone who came to him. Because how are others to come to God if some will not forgive and try to help? I know some people who don't want to believe in God b/c some of the pastors and the churches they atended in the past talk about "fire and brimestone," or "Your going to hell if you continue to do..." Everyone is a sinner, and by praying and trying to help one another will progress be made; weither overcoming homosexuality or an addiction of some sort.
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Postby **Mr. SmartyPants** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:25 am

oh no! please don't get me wrong! I'm not hating anybody! I just had a little confusion! that's all! please don't hit me!!!!

Postby **agasfas** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:29 am

And Ingemar, on the gay clergy topic - I am against them. Remember the passage about 'false teachers'?..... Sinners cannot stand up in a pulpit and preach the gospel about condeming others' sins when they themselves need to ask for forgiveness.

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We're all sinful from birth, the chances that some people are physicologically sinful (ie gay), be it due to a biological stuff-up or whatever doesn't put them in a different boat from straight sinners.

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I agree w/ both of them.

And Volt, thanks for the story. I also do believe that "evil spirts" pick on little kids b/c they are more easily drawn away. I mean it's easy to make a little kid believe something that isn't true. Believe me I've tried

Mr. Smartypants i wasn't taking about anyone in this message board, i mean people/society in general.

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