Homosexuality in Games

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Homosexuality in Games

Postby Fsiphskilm » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:49 am

Okay here it is finally... Sorry I got lazy :drool: But it does exist and it is here.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2098406/

Small Note. I cannot stand the author of MSNBC's many many articles. His name is "bla bla Thompson" and I can't stand him :shady: His articles go all over the place, are unorganized, and he doesn't know what he's talking about

Be sure to read this... The Gay guy's blog that **** me off :shady:
[quote="gay guy's blog"]
Rainbow Warriors
December 2, 2001

Sometimes it can be disappointing to be gay and a video game fan. There's just not a whole lot of representation out there for us. What have we got? The only outright example I can think of is The Sims, where all the characters are inherently bisexual. It's just a matter of connecting with the right person. (Sidebar: Have you seen the gay-themed commercial for The Sims' latest expansion? It's a hoot.) There's also a lot of gender ambiguity in Japanese games with anime influences (just like the anime itself). I found out recently that the main villain in the Samurai Shodown series, Amakusa, is actually a man. Sure, he has long, flowing red hair and wears a big, elaborate dress and has a girlish laugh, but he's a man.

But I'm speaking of full-on gayness, not just that Japanese fascination with gender-bending. There's not much there -- at least a first glance. But if you look closer, pick up on the subtext, drink a lot, take hallucinogens, and jump to the kind of far-out conclusions that caused some people to argue that Abraham Lincoln had a gay affair, you can find it. I've been spending some time awash with nostalgia towards old (and not-so-old) fighting games, and I've come to the conclusion that there are all sorts of characters who can be read as gay. Join me for my analysis. Bring along a pinch of salt.

Guile and Charlie - Street Fighter series: Guile and Charlie are totally the Bert and Ernie of the fighting-game world. Seriously. Street Fighter II came out when I was just graduating high school. In fact, Sushi and I were living together as roommates when I first started looking at this game. I was immediately drawn to Guile, with his killer biceps, military outfit, and distinctive hair. His background story was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser. He had entered this fight to get at the main villain, M. Bison, whom he blamed for the death of his "best friend" and Army pal Charlie. That seems innocuous. But it became obvious that this was more than simple vengeance. Guile wore Charlie's dogtags next to his own, and one of his victory poses featured him holding up his necklace in some sort of salute.

That's not just friendship, that's love. Oh, sure, Guile allegedly had a wife and child, and they showed them if you beat the game. But references to them in future games utterly disappeared. They were obviously beards, as this was before the whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy came about. Guile also had a tendency to primp between matches and really started to look like a gym queen with a uniform fetish.

Then Capcom (the game manufacturer) introduced a prequel to the game, Street Fighter Alpha, and we got to meet Charlie himself. Charlie was similarly built, fought in a fashion similar to Guile, and had different, but equally distinctive, stylish hair. He also leaned towards the between-match primping and wore some stylish eyeglasses.

At some point, Capcom pretty much abandoned continuity (no doubt realizing that players didn't really care all that much about why these guys are fighting) and started putting Charlie in some of the fighting crossover games they developed (X-Men vs. Street Fighter, for example). Now, with Marvel vs. Capcom II, Charlie and Guile are in the same game together, able to fight side by side.

Oh sure, nothing has ever been said outright, but I'm sure tossing sonic boom attacks and flying somersault kicks are not normal military training practices, even in Special Forces. These two have spent a lot of time together teaching each other to fight, and bonding and… stuff. Their devotion to each other is adorable -- and very, very gay. And if there's any doubt, just look at their hair. Their hair speaks volumes. That's gay hair. After all this fighting is over, the two of them are going to retire out here to Oceanside and open up a modest B&B so that all the gay marines and sailors have a place to rendezvous.

Victor was the game's Frankenstein-type monster, though with those his giant pecs and washboard abs, he seemed to have been influenced by Rocky Horror as well. There wasn't anything about Victor's story that marked him as gay, but well, you have to see him in action. You see, Victor fights with his… well… he fights with his ***. If you hit the "kick" buttons when he's standing next to his opponent, he spins around and attempts to hit him or her with his ample buttocks. And one of his throws features him grabbing his opponents between his buttcheeks, spinning them around, and throwing them. In gay wrestling porn, that counts as foreplay.

Demitri - Darkstalkers series: Demitri is a classic case of denial and overcompensation. He's a vampire, and at first glance, he's totally into the women. One of his victory poses features several women coming to offer themselves to him. One of his special moves features him turning his opponent into a girl (even if the opponent is already a girl -- strange) and draining them of some sort of fluid.

But look closer. First of all, he's awfully buff for a vampire. Really, really muscular. He wears a period-piece Victorian suit -- apparently made from spandex, showing off his body by Bally. I think he ordered it from International Male. When he spins around, you can see that he's got an *** you can crack walnuts with. And he's big on the spinning -- several of his special moves involve him twirling around to damage his opponents. I bet he's a really good dancer.

The final nail in the coffin -- so to speak -- for Demitri is his storyline. He wants to rule the demon dimensions, or whatever the hell is the explanation for all these bizarre characters. But he also wants to possess Morrigan, a succubus and one of the other fighters. But he never does]


This is just insane... I think the Gay community is trying to force us to accept them. On the other hand I know what it's like to want to be accepted. They just want to have their own thing going on. BUT... Well, I don't want to put up with it.

I'll comment on the Gay Guy's BLog later *eye twitches*
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Postby skynes » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:55 am

...Ok, that is scary. Guile and Charlie gay? Yeah right... Maxi and Kilik!? This guy is deliberately looking for 'gay' stuff wherever he can find it.
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Postby kaji » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:02 am

LOL That is just hillarious!!!

What I get a kick out of, is how the author seams to be despirate in thier search for gay characters. Why wouldnt those same characters be made to apeal to woman as much as they would to gay men? Or even made to apeal to guys as 'cool' (or an idol or sorts) and not sexulay.

Then again, it can be difficult to write objectively about something that is so personal as ones own sexuality. So I can some what understand how some one could write such a dirranged article.

As far as the MSN article goes, well, thats just scary.

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Postby cbwing0 » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:50 am

After reading those articles, I have officially lost all faith in the reliability of American journalism. That article is the most blatant case of exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts that I have ever read.

They authors are indeed looking for gay characters where they do not exist, which forces them to create them out of thin air. I think this quote summarizes the quality of the article:

But if you look closer, pick up on the subtext, drink a lot, take hallucinogens, and jump to the kind of far-out conclusions that caused some people to argue that Abraham Lincoln had a gay affair, you can find it.

Not a very sound basis for objective analysis, is it?

This is yet another case of people twisting reality to fit their own desires and expectations. I'm sure there we will see more of those this as society is flushed further down the toilet of moral decay; but this is precisely the reason why there needs to be more quality Christians games on the market. Hopefully this generation of believers will be up to the challenge.
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Postby skynes » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:02 am

I'm certainly up to the challenge *rubs hands with glee*
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:12 am

this makes me so sad. but really, it's nothing new. people have been writing slash fanfiction for years. even Harry Potter has slash fanfiction, which I find especially disgusting since the characters are CHILDREN.

*shakes head* something needs to be done...
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Postby bakura_fan » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:01 am

I can't believe how low people can sink. Why do they hafta think that every pretty boy is gay? *sigh* *can't find exact quote in there but I thought i read it*
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Postby Yojimbo » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:03 am

Lol Volt that's what they've been trying to do for years. I can't believe this is supposed to be taken serious. I mean lol they're trying to rationalize how all these fighting characters MUST be gay...please. And I can't believe they left out the two most obvious lesbians in gaming. Hana and Rain from Fear Effect 2 had a kissing scene.
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Postby skynes » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:25 am

Hana and Rain mustn't have been 'lesbian' enough for them. After all obvious ones get ignored they're soing the get drunk and stoned and look REAAAALLLY deep into it to see them.
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Postby Zilch » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:36 am

(Pukes. Repeatedly.)

Maxi was an incredibly cool character. How dare they make accusations like that!
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Postby skynes » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:50 am

Hana and Rain mustn't have been 'lesbian' enough for them. After all obvious ones get ignored they're soing the get drunk and stoned and look REAAAALLLY deep into it to see them.
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Postby Grumpy » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:23 am

They can find gay in anything. It makes me sick. :red:
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Postby Golden_Griff » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:41 am

Hmm...I kinda got a mixed response from that article. Half of me says "well that's just sick how they're trying to make it seem that these characters are gay." But the other half of me says that this guy is just being humorous and this is something to get laughs out of (yes I'll be truthful, it did make me chuckle a few times). So my reaction kinda depends on the intention of the article. But overall, I say "Ewwww!" (*_*)

from the article wrote:Violet - Tekken 4: This game is relatively new down at the arcades here, and I know very little about this character's background. Still, he's a man named "Violet," and he wears frilly pirate shirts. He's gay.


SHUT UP! :lol: Yes, when you think of the name Violet you might think of a woman. But (to me) that doesn't mean a thing. Lot's of people think Ashley and Whitney are feminine names but it just so happens that those are the same names of two of the founding fathers of this country.

But the frilly pirate pants...hmm, I....don't know about that :eyebrow:

I'm glad they didn't mention any characters I like or else I'll be puking all over the place too.
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Postby cbwing0 » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:54 pm

Yog Shoggoth wrote:The above comments aren’t coming from a person who is writing a serious analysis of homosexuality in video games. This whole article is a lark. You might not find the concept very appealing, but don’t misconstrue the authors intended purpose.

The blog was probably satire. The problem is, the MSNBC article quotes from it extensively to "prove" that homosexuality is becoming a bigger part of video games. While the blog entry may not have been serious, the other article was clearly meant to be taken as fact.
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Postby Golden_Griff » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:17 pm

Wait, I overlooked the MSN article.

from the MSN article written by Thompson wrote:Will straight gamers want to play at being gay?


Hmm...lemme think--No :shady:

The only time I experience anything of that nature is when I'm playing Harvest Moon, because I have no other choice but to play the role of a male character.

This style reached its apotheosis with the Final Fantasy series. At one point in Final Fantasy VII, you actually have to cross-dress the character Cloud (and get him to flirt with a male enemy) to complete a mission.


Actually I thought that was funny :lol:

Even the Japanese butch characters read as gay, such as the bearded tough guy Barrett—"a bear love poster child," as another gay gamer joked to me.


Now you stop right there! :shady:

Yeah, that MSN article really disgusts me. :comp:
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Postby cbwing0 » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:51 pm

Yog Shoggoth wrote:Homosexual characters are becoming more prominent in video games, and the Guile reference conceptually does have merit. The overly-buff-macho-military man in tight fatigues can be viewed as a gay stereotype, which the author uses to introduce the fact that Japan is much more accepting of homosexuality. I personally don’t think using Guile is the most appropriate choice to broach the subject, but the overall idea is sound.

If that is the case, then surely you should be able to provide some more recent examples of homosexual characters in video games.

Herein lies the next problem: identifying homosexuality with things that have nothing to do with sexual preference. By your criterion, every super hero, soldier, and professional athlete is gay, simply due to the fact that they are "overly buff." While some may be, this does not mean that all are. Similarly, being "macho" certainly does not mean that someone is gay. In fact, it usually means the opposite. As for the "tight fatigues" that is merely the style of art in the game. Almost all of the characters wear tighter-than-usual clothes, whether or not it is appropriate and/or realisitic. This is the style with most games, but that does not mean that the characters are gay; rather, it is probably just easier to draw tight clothes instead of complex billowing/creasing effects.
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Postby Fsiphskilm » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:48 pm

cbwing0 wrote:After reading those articles, I have officially lost all faith in the reliability of American journalism. That article is the most blatant case of exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts that I have ever read.
They authors are indeed looking for gay characters where they do not exist, which forces them to create them out of thin air. I think this quote summarizes the quality of the article:
Not a very sound basis for objective analysis, is it?
This is yet another case of people twisting reality to fit their own desires and expectations.


Which is the reason my face changed 12 shades red'er and steam came out of my ears. Becuase they are trying to show the promotion of something that isn't there.

Some dumb Fruit doesn't understand the concept of brotherly love. Obviously becuase they're sexuality is all screwed up and so now they think every well dressed, well built guy is gay. When the majority of gay guys are either overly skinny or overwieght.

The whole article has so many things wrong with it. And it's no wonder the gay community is so hated. Becuae they're so incredibly ignorant, and forcefull of their opinions.

Bottom line... I think a man ----- his------another man's ---- is ------ disguisting. It's not LOVE... it's filth. And it's pissing me along with everyone else here off. Becuase...
gay guy wrote:tha'ts not freindship, that's love
No it's NOT! Do you even understand love? There's more to freindship than just hanging out. If me and my brother were't related we'd be considered gay by many people. Becuase many Poeple don't understand freindships and relationships.

Especially the majority of Americans. If they see two guys in a car together they assume them "gay". In europe and China the freinships between same sex people is VERY VERY close. People think open. Poeple accept others as brothers, as family. And It's not far that some close minded Gay Guy with a website named (b*****panic which is even more Gay) is going around spreading this crap.

That's why I voted Against Gay Marrage. Cuz y'alls attitudes are pushing it :shady:
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Postby Swordguy » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:05 pm

i would have to agree and if alot people saw the way i hung around the my brothers in Christ some might get the wrong impression.
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Postby Kinkosami » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:36 pm

This isn't much of a surprise to me. People are always trying to push the fact that certain characters are gay, even if they aren't.

Even in the fanfiction they do it, it's really hard to find good fanfiction that doesn't have a yaoi couple... Like Gundam Wing, for example...
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Postby cbwing0 » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:08 pm

Yog Shoggoth wrote:My point is that the author was attempting to segue into the idea that Japan is more liberal in its views on homosexuality by pointing out some possibly homosexual characteristics in a character that is generally identified as heterosexual. In no way did I attempt to lay down any criteria to define gay characters.

Ah, the fun of the diminishing point...

Yog Shoggoth wrote:So yes, some people do equate certain aspects of super heroes, soldiers, and athletes with homosexuality. That doesn’t mean any of those things are innately gay, but it does that they can be perceived as such.

Some people may equate these characteristics with homosexuality, but my point is that these equivocations are completely unwarranted, which is why the article is so absurd. The satire in itself is midly annoying, but the fact that a journalist for a major news network would construe that satire as a basis for his claims is disturbing, leading to incorrect conclusions.

As for the game characters that you mentioned, I will comment on the one with which I am familiar:

Yog Shoggoth wrote:Vamp from Metal Gear Solid 2

I played through the entire game, and I there was no indication that Vamp was gay. If it originated with Konami, it was merely intended to add to the hype surrounding the game. If it came from the wild speculation of video game journalists, it is nothing more than that: wild speculation.

Let's look at the other examples. Two of them are pulled straight from the MSNBC article, while the other is from a game that is nearly 5 years old. I would hardly call that a basis for the claim that homosexual characters are becoming significantly more prevalent in games.

At any rate, I would like to know your opinion of the trend. Regardless of the implications of the article, what do you think of homosexual characters in games?
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Postby Zilch » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:11 pm

[quote="Yog Shoggoth"]You’re both missing my point and twisting my words. I said, “The overly-buff-macho-military man in tight fatigues can be viewed as a gay stereotype…â€
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Postby Yojimbo » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:39 pm

cbwing0 wrote:I played through the entire game, and I there was no indication that Vamp was gay. If it originated with Konami, it was merely intended to add to the hype surrounding the game. If it came from the wild speculation of video game journalists, it is nothing more than that: wild speculation.


No he's right look at a script for the game somewhere. If you called Rose enough to get info on Dead Cell it was revealed that Vamp earned his name because he was bisexual not a "vampire." He had a relationship with Marine Commander Dolph Jackson.:eyeroll:

I don't see where you got Juhani though Yog. I've never heard her mention anything that would suggest she was a lesbian. I mean she did have a relationship with a Jedi turned Sith I believe he's in the Sith excavation site on Korriban.
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Postby cbwing0 » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:54 pm

Yojimbo wrote:o he's right look at a script for the game somewhere. If you called Rose enough to get info on Dead Cell it was revealed that Vamp earned his name because he was bisexual not a "vampire." He had a relationship with Marine Commander Dolph Jackson.:eyeroll:

Ah...in that case, I stand corrected :) . However, I still do not think that there are enough possible cases to show a move towards significantly more homosexual charactesr in games.
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Postby Mithrandir » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:04 am

cbwing0:
If you are going to pull the logic card, please run it both ways. Strictly speaking, a change from zero characters to one character results in an infinate percent increase in characters/game. The overall ratio may not be signifiicant but the delta deffinately is.

Zilch:
Thanks. ;) We know. He acutally had one point, but people kept nit picking it. He's just defending his points in subsequent posts, and providing the examples people requested.

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Postby cbwing0 » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:54 am

oldphilosopher wrote:Strictly speaking, a change from zero characters to one character results in an infinate percent increase in characters/game. The overall ratio may not be signifiicant but the delta deffinately is.

Granted, but do a few gay characters every couple of years warrant a full article from a major news network? In other words, are there enough homosexual characters in games to justify the term "trend?" My answer is that there are not.

I apologize if I got out of line, but I think my point still stands.
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Postby Jester » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:57 am

Fortunately, that article came from a commentary/editorial part of their website, not from their actual news network. But it is still crude and reaching, their editors should be a lot more careful in what they read and interpret.

As a note, that type of news section will ALWAYS have a bias, that is what it is meant for. I am not defending it, just recognizing that it is one person's opinion and not representing all of MSN or the world's opinion.
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Postby Fsiphskilm » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:06 pm

Yojimbo wrote:No he's right look at a script for the game somewhere. If you called Rose enough to get info on Dead Cell it was revealed that Vamp earned his name because he was bisexual not a "vampire." He had a relationship with Marine Commander Dolph Jackson.:eyeroll:


This is coming from the same game where everyone's a frickin Robot. Your girlfreind, your colenel, and even your mom is a robot :shady: And your freind's daughter's mother is your enemy...no...wait...she isn't. Or is she???

The folks over at Konami are crackheads. 110% They just randomly write in story twists. I assume and am sure that this is where Vamp's Sexuality came from. :lol: from a crackhead :shady: ... well... funny crackeheads :lol:
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Postby Yojimbo » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:13 pm

Actually I made a little error.:sweat: I talked to my cousin today and he's one of those guys that can remember what shirt you wore a month ago. He reminded me that it's not Rose that gives you the info but Snake and then Otacon chimes in. Just incase anyone wanted to check it out for themselves or something.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:16 am

Volt wrote:This is coming from the same game where everyone's a frickin Robot. Your girlfreind, your colenel, and even your mom is a robot :shady: And your freind's daughter's mother is your enemy...no...wait...she isn't. Or is she???

The folks over at Konami are crackheads. 110% They just randomly write in story twists. I assume and am sure that this is where Vamp's Sexuality came from. :lol: from a crackhead :shady: ... well... funny crackeheads :lol:


Robot? What? No one is a robot... No one... Nada... None of them are robots. As for the colonel [spoiler=duh]The colonel that Raiden saw was made up in his head... Some explanations of it were that GW was scewing with his head, so I can sorta see where you got the robot thing, but I don't think even that was the truth in the end.

As for Vamp and the Marine Commandant... Well, this fit in with the more "adult" direction they were trying to take the game... Gratuitous blood, more confusing plot, more adult content... I think they were sick of kids playing MGS, so they tried to make their audience perfectly clear... [/spoiler]

I loved the twists, and I understood most of the story in MGS2. I liked the direction it took, though I didn't want to hear about stuff like Vamp... I still remember the first time I heard that from "pliskin"... The twists weren't just random. It all has a purpose, and I think we'll be finding out more in Big Boss' story (MGS3) More about the patriots, more about what was really behind everything, and more about Big Boss and Ocelot... Ocelot has always annoyed me, so it would be great if they can fix it in this game.

MGS2 and Final Fantasy 7 are the only console games I can think of that actually had gay characters (in FF7, they weren't main characters.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby AngelSakura » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:29 am

<<<<This style reached its apotheosis with the Final Fantasy series. At one point in Final Fantasy VII, you actually have to cross-dress the character Cloud (and get him to flirt with a male enemy) to complete a mission. >>

Actually I thought that was funny >>
I'm with you, GG. I was giggling hysterically thoughout that entire section. It might have been slightly funnier because it was 2 in the morning, though.
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