a Religious Explanation

Postby **Zarn Ishtare** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:54 am

Ok, this message is for the admins: Please don't remove this or send me to theology.web. I'm asking a specific question without debating it with anyone. If this thread does get out of hand, however, please delete it. I would ask CDlviking through PM, but I'd like the opinions of several to be given here.

That said, I'd like to ask this question: What is it exactly that Catholics believe about Saints and Mary the Mother of Jesus?

Postby **Destroyer2000** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:16 pm

From what I understand, they look to them as Father or Mother figures...or with the respect you would give your mother or father. But I'm not Catholic, so I'm not sure.

Postby **RoyalWing** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:00 pm

You could also ask Supa Dupa Ninja. ^-^

Postby **uc pseudonym** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:47 pm

With all due respect, could I ask that a Catholic be the next person to post in this thread? I'd take a Catholic scholar or anyone extremely familiar with the denomination as well. But it strikes me that Zarn Ishtare should return to a thread filled by answers, not posting about answers.

Of course, if this is turned into a debate the thread will be closed and poor Zarn will be back to PMs.

Postby **Zarn Ishtare** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:22 pm

*looks at UC* "You took the words right out of my non-denominational mouth..."

So please, with all due respect, WHERE ARE MY CATHOLIC BRETHREN?!?!

Postby **CDLviking** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:22 pm

Well that's a pretty broad question. I guess the broadest answer is that we believe that they intercede on our behalf, praying for us from Heaven, much in the same way you might wish to have us at CAA pray for you. The difference is that, already being in Heaven, they are much better than we are at praying, since they are in the presence of the Father at every moment.

Do you have any more specific questions?

My livejournal · Postby **Zedian** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:21 pm

So that is why the Catholics see Saints and Mary as such relevant figures...I always wanted to know as well. I got a question though, the rapture is a time in which all shall be judged, those who have died and those who still live. But Mary and the Saints are already in Heaven. Of course I don't want the wrong impressions to be made of, I want to avoid debate. I just want some clarification, since I am very unfamilary with Catholicism.

Postby **CDLviking** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:21 am

Catholics have a very different view on the Rapture, but at the Last Judgement, I would assume they will be there like everybody else, they'll just know where they're going already. I'll read a bit more on this and see if there is anything specificly mentioned about saints and the Last Judgement.

Postby **Ingemar** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:59 am

Half of my family are Filipino Catholics, and I'll say that even within the RCC is fragmentation regarding theology.

What Viking told you is generally the attitude amongst Westerner Catholics. Some people I have physically seen actually bow to, worship, and give offerings to statues of Mary and the saints. This, I believed, fell directly contrary to both OT and NT commandments against idolatry.

Postby **CDLviking** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:21 am

Amongst official teaching there is unity not just in the RCC, but in the whole Catholic Church. What some misled individuals may do does not reflect the teachng of the Church. Also, I don't know the people you are refering to, but the things you described do not necessarily seem to indicate worship (they could, but not necessarily). Bowing could simply be a sign of respect that they have for that saint, and people leave flowers at graves, or decorate the photos of loved ones, but that doesn't mean they are making offerings to them.

I think if it goes on like this, this thread will get banned. Please take those things to PM so that any other Catholics who wish to may respond, or new questions can be asked.

Postby **JediSonic** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:05 am

I'm a catholic! Sorry I took a while to see this thread... I'm on vacation at a relative's house :sweat:

I agree with the things cdlviking has said in answer to people's questions, although I thought this one might benefit from my putting in my thoughts on the subject:

Zedian wrote:I got a question though, the rapture is a time in which all shall be judged, those who have died and those who still live. But Mary and the Saints are already in Heaven. Of course I don't want the wrong impressions to be made of, I want to avoid debate. I just want some clarification, since I am very unfamilary with Catholicism.

Something to keep in mind here is that heaven exists outside of time... its eternal. That means that they would be able to see and interact with things that happened "before" the rapture, once they are in heaven. So basically, it doesnt make much difference if the saints (with the exclusion of mary who was physically and spiritually assumed into heaven) didnt go to heaven until the rapture, since once they got there time would be irrelivant and it would be as though they'd been in heaven the whole time! Kinda confusing eh? :drool:

The difference with mary is that she was conceived without original sin, and never once sinned in her life so obviously her "judgement" didnt need to wait on the rapture. Also, please dont mistake my theory of saints waiting for the rapture as a fact... its just an idea I came up with and not definitely not an official church teaching :lol:

Postby **Zarn Ishtare** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:13 am

...I've gotten enough answers. thank you to all the people who've responded. Ashley, Somebody, please lock this up now.

Postby **inkhana** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:03 am

Done.

a Religious Explanation

a Religious Explanation

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