New Heaven and New Earth

[kingoleer]

Before I start out, let me put up a disclaimer.

I am in no way trying to say that Christianity is inferior to Judaism, or vice versa. I do have, in my opinion, a legitimate question about the new heaven and the new earth and who will dwell where.

From my understanding, the new Jerusalem was going to be on the new Earth and there was also going to be a new Heaven, because the old things passed away.

My father told me that the city is specifically for the Jewish people, and that it will be in Heaven, and that the gentiles will inherit the new Earth. He did say that the Bible never said we couldn't travel from Earth to Heaven and back.

I just thought that was an odd interpretation of it. I always believed that everyone would reside in the new city and it would be in the new Earth. This belief always led me to question why there would be a new Heaven if everyone was going to be on Earth.

But with my dad saying what he did, it made me question all of it, wondering who was going to live where and where the city will be located.

Anyway, I was just wondering what you guy's opinions are on the matter, what you've always believed about the future with the Lord, and things of that nature.

[Ashley]

Sounds like a question for Theologyweb to me.

[kingoleer]

I'm sorry, I didn't have the intent of posting in the wrong place.

[Ashley]

No, it's alright. But if it gets carried away, the Christians there may be able to help you more than we can. Anyway, the easiest way to answer this is to go to the Bible. I'd start by asking your dad in the most polite and respectful way to show you how he gets this theory, and if he has biblical evidence to support it. If that doesn't work, maybe the crew here can do some diggin' for ya.

[TheMelodyMaker]

The diggin' has been done; time for my first epistle on these here boards! ^_^ Here's what I came up with:

To start with, in Revelation 21:2...

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

One must understand that Revelation was written to a church who at the time was being severely persecuted; they needed all the hope and comfort they could get, so knowing of this future city did the job. The "bride" referred to above is often how the church is referred to throughout the book.

However, it isn't only the hope of the church. Hebrews 11:8-16 (I won't quote all of it here) shows that it was the hope of Abraham, Issac and Jacob; while Ezekiel 40-48 (again, I won't be quoting all 9 chapters here!) shows it being the hope of Israel and all the Old Testament saints.

All I could find that even mentioned Israel's name in the New Jerusalem was the reference to the twelve gates mentioned in Ezekiel 48:30-34 (mentioned above) and Revelation 21:12...

Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.

While all the saints of the ages including the church will dwell in the new city, Israel will still have a special place in God's heart. What better honor than to name the city's gates after its tribes?


I hope this helps you out a little, Kingoleer. Like Ashley said, talk to your dad and find out from him what Scriptural evidence he has to support his interpretation. ^_^

[EireWolf]

IMHO, we won't know for sure until we get there, and it won't matter anyway as long as we're with our Lord.

But after majoring in Theology in college, that sort of became my view about most theological discussions/arguments.

[Benu]

I'm not really good at answering things of Theology and stuff so here is my explination. I know different demominations have different views on this so I hope I don't offend anyone if I do Please forgive me. Oh and by the way I'm a Jew. I found out I was a Jew when I was already Christian so I'm A Christain Jew. I don't know the right name for a Christain Jew it has slipped my mind at the time. Anyway I've always heard that after the Rapture God will destroy all Life on earth then the Thousand year regin will be on earth. Then Satan will be loosed on the earth too rise up against God. So after that battle. It will be the White Throne Judgement. Then after that God will Destroy the earth completely then He will build the new Jerusalem where all of God's people will dwell, Not just the Jews. So the new Heaven and earth will be after the Rapture so the new Jerusalem will not be on the new earth. Anyway thats my take from my studies and teachings I have heard from people. If I offended any one I am sorry and please forgive me.

[Saint]

Yeah, what i had thought was like that.
First the rapture of the Church. then 7 years, as the antichrist comes in to total power of Earth. everyone does it Antichrist's way or is in hiding. this is where all the new believers and i think Jews are trying to escape being killed. then Christ returns as the warrior-king, on the white horse, thus Armageddon. After armageddon Satan and his demons are locked up for a thousand years and there is peace on Earth. (I think this is the time that the city in question is in play.) there are people living in this time, the believers/Jews that were saved when Jesus returned. After the millennium, Satan and his demons are released one last time and there are the final battles of Gog and Magog. then the final judgment where Satan, his demons and all who rejected Christ are thrown into the lake of fire for eternity. then everything is destroyed and God creates a new heaven and earth.
Thats how i have been led to take it, but very true, it is hard to get solid facts from prophesy, you never truly know how to translate somethings. Time will tell!!

[Spiritsword]

Interesting discussion, but I'm afraid I can't participate much as I'm not very well versed in endtimes. The only thing I'm confused about now is where we will all end up (for eternity). In Heaven or in a city on the earth? Because existence in Heaven should be vastly qualitatively different than existence on Earth, at least in my opinion. It's spiritual vs. physical--I thought we escaped physical limitations after death...

Maybe I just need to go read the end of Revelation again...

(Though I agree with Saint, sometimes those prophecies are difficult to interpret-- are they literal or figurative?)

Spiritsword

[Technomancer]

My own opinion is that much of Revelation should be understood in a more figurative sense. It was written first for Christians undergoing persecution within the Roman Empire (from whence much of the symbolism comes), also to Christians facing persecution in general, and also to prepare the Church for its final trials. Much of the writing and symbolism also allude to events elsewhere in scripture, and thus are not necessarily literal in meaning. It is rather more likely for instance, that Babylon is meant as a symbol of idolatory and immorality than an actual, literal city.

On the subject there are some good commentaries at:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01594b.htm
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/intro.htm

Regardless of this, the highly symbolic language of Revelation has allowed it to be used in a variety of ways that do not always reflect the spirit of scripture. These at least we should be wary of. First and foremost we should be living as Christ would have us live, and not sitting about waiting for the apocalypse. The four horseman hardly need to make a dramatic entrance after all, they've been with us since the beginning. So has injustice, immorality, persecution and just about any other evil you could mention. Our responses to these present wrongs somehow seems more pressing from the point of view of our own morality. In short, He'll get here when He gets here, meanwhile we need to do the best we can 'till he does.

At any rate that's my own opinion (for what little it's worth )

[inkhana]

In short, He'll get here when He gets here.

At any rate that's my own opinion (for what little it's worth )

^^ That's the way I feel about it. As long as you've been saved, doesn't make any difference. People (not us, but people) fight over this as if fighting will change the future anyhow...and I was gonna say something else but my brain feels like it's in a fog so I'll shut up now......LOL Oh wait, I remember now. In ref to the original question, I figure we'll all be together in the end, and since I don't think God's going to give out two different kinds of new bodies in the end, we'll all be the same...I don't think whether people were Jews or not will matter. Don't know if there's anything Biblical in ref to that, but that's just the impression I get.

[Saint]

I agree with all that you all are saying.
Also, i think that the city in the millennium will be only for certain people, while others are in heaven. Yet, with the creation of a totally new heaven and earth i think it is come and go as you please... really there isn't any comments about the truly new heaven and earth... its way at the end. who knows.
Also like Techno said, we should live in the now, and share Christ with others. (but it is intresting. )

[Benu]

True Dat Saint, True Dat!

[Rashiir]

Matt 24:27 says "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

I interpret that verse to mean basically that when Jesus comes back, you will KNOW. So I don't worry about the end times. Am I right here?

[Ashley]

I'd say you're as right as my right hand on that one.

[Saint]

True. // I just guess that for those who are not believers in Christ will somehow still reject Him. That seems like such an event to still reject Christ... but Satan is cunningly deceptive.