Repentance

[Spiritsword]

I'm never sure whether to post this type of thread in "General" or not, but it doesn't really fit into "prayer requests" or "Bible study" either.

I have a question (possibly a couple) about repentance and forgiveness. I'm going to try to keep my questions and discussion general for 2 reasons:
They might benefit others with the same concerns.
This issue has some specific personal implications for me, things I don't feel comfortable sharing on a publicly viewable forum. If things start to get to the point where I have to be more specific I might have to go to PM's.

Okay, here goes:

First, I'm basing my major question on some views I have. I'm going to list those first. If any of them are inaccurate then the major question may end up being irrelevant.
1. God knows every one of our sins: past, present, future.
2. When Jesus died on the cross, He did so that ALL our sins are forgiven: past, present, future.
3. We are not saved through anything that WE can do (except that one moment when we choose to proclaim Jesus as our savior for all eternity), but through God's grace and sacrifice of His one and only Son.
4. When we proclaim Jesus as our savior ALL our sins are forgiven: past, present, future. Period.
5. God knows each of our hearts intimately.

Okay so far? If not, please let me know.

So here's the question that follows:
Why do we need to continually confess our sins to God? Or do we?

That's my major question. If I have accepted Jesus as my savior and I am completely free from sin (all my sins are forgiven for eternity), why do I need to confess and repent my daily sins through prayer? If I am repentant for those sins in my heart, God knows that, right? And I am forgiven already, right? And God knows I committed the sin--I don't have to tell Him about it to alert Him to it.

I DO have a reason for asking that, as I mentioned previously, is personal. But I would appreciate all your thoughts and ideas regarding this issue of repentance and forgiveness. And of course I'll participate too!

Thanks,
Spiritsword

[Mithrandir]

I think the reason it doesn't fit into any kind of category is that it's a Theology Discussion, which CAA doesn't really encourage. You may have better luck asking only for PM responses, as this thread will probably be locked shortly. That's where I'm going to reply, anyway.

[EireWolf]

Hi Spiritsword! You raise a good question. I'll respond as best as I know how, but I will say right now that I don't claim to KNOW anything... this is just what I understand at present, being a fallible human being.

Okay, that said... As far as I know, your presuppositions are correct. But I think you are missing one major point: The Christian walk is not just one decision to accept Christ and it's all done. It is a journey. Christ's sacrifice on the cross covers all the sins of His followers, that is true. And confession isn't about giving God any new information, as He knows already what we have done and will do. It's for your benefit, as well as a closer relationship with God. Continual confession and repentance is about continual growth in your spiritual life.

Here's a metaphor for ya... metaphors tend to help me out. The Christian walk is, as I said, a journey. Once you accept Christ as your Savior, you're on the road. Yes, your sins are already forgiven. But refusing to confess is like stopping to stand in the road instead of continuing to walk in Jesus' footsteps. You become stagnant, and you stop growing.

See, what God is after is a close relationship with you. If you don't talk with Him about everything, How can He help you with the things you struggle with? Yes, God already knows, but you must confess it to God and to yourself... for your benefit, not God's. An essential part of repentance is confession. If you won't confess, it seems to me you're sort of trying to hide it. Maybe it's a pride issue. Perhaps you think a good Christian never sins? No; we are all still human. But a "good Christian" does confess and lays everything out before God. No "secrets," from God or self.

You might ask yourself why you are so reluctant to confess. That may shed some light on why you should do it in this particular instance.

I hope this helps, and if anyone can correct or add to what I said, please do so.

[uc pseudonym]

In the past the CAA admin has generally been accepting of theological questions, unless they turn nasty. We'll see.

First, I'd like to have a few words on your assumptions. While these have general agreement from most people, they are entirely based on the christus victor line of thought surrouding Jesus. Not everyone agrees with this, including many of the original church leaders. Of course, that's a topic on its own, and I'll let it be.

Also, in my mind your question has a teensy flaw. It is based on the assumption that confession is like a candy machine: put in money, get candy. In no way do your sins accumulate on you and then disappear when you confess. Widen the thought a bit and confession has purposes other than direct results.

On that issue, I'd point out that God knows everything. Therefore one could conclude that you have to say nothing to God, as no matter what you say, He knows it. Yet somehow I do not believe that God wishes us to never speak with him. Sounds diestic to me. There is a definite part of it that that simply exists because God likes being talked to. Same way with worship- is there anything we can do that will really bring glory to God or tell Him something new? No. But He likes it. That's what gives the act value.

I'd also question that you are forgiven for all of eternity. If someone becomes Christian, then deserts the religion, killings hundreds of innocent people randomly, are these sins still forgiven? In my mind, forgiveness is a conduit, God is always offering, but you must be repentant in your heart for it to flow. So in a way, this asking forgiveness is a way of telling God that you are sorry for what you've done, and that you recognize this.

[EireWolf]

While these have general agreement from most people, they are entirely based on the christus victor line of thought surrouding Jesus.

What does christus victor mean?

[Spiritsword]

Originally posted by uc pseudonym:
I'd also question that you are forgiven for all of eternity. If someone becomes Christian, then deserts the religion

Yes, I wasn't specific enough in my post. I meant as long as you continue to remain a Christian and acknowledge Jesus Christ as your Savior, your sins are forgiven eternally. If you turn away from God willingly and denounce Him, and never go back to Him before you die, I agree that you lose that forgiveness.

[Rashiir]

I think the point of confessing is keeping ourselves aware of the sins in our lives and getting them out there in the light. It's like "Hey God, I'm having trouble here or I failed here and I need your help with this."

(Insert monitary reference to my thoughts here.)

[Technomancer]

Well, my own perspectives I suppose are a bit different, athough I agree with much of what has been said here.

Confession is an acknowledgment of both your sins and of God's mercy in granting forgiveness. The first words we (Catholics) speak in the confessional are explicit in this "Bless me father for I have sinned..". Much along the same lines as an AA meeting "I'm X and I'm an alcoholic". It's a question of human nature, we have to acknowldge our mistakes and often the best way of doing so is to say it out loud. In the same sense, we confess to help form our own consciences, and to better understand our actions.

As EireWolf mentioned, the Christian way is not an event, but more of a process. We stumble, and make mistakes along the way but with strength (and more than little help!) we may persevere. However, it is always our choice to persevere or not.

[Spiritsword]

Okay, I was afraid of this.
First, thank you all for the great responses so far. You've brought up some points I hadn't considered or that I hadn't quite been able to put into words.

Unfortunately, the main reason for confession I hear in a lot of the responses is precisely my problem. I'm going to try to be more specific here as to my personal situation without being TOO specific.

Several responses have indicated that the reason we confess our sins is so that we can become more aware of them. Well, that's certainly no concern for me.

Let me breifly share two things about myself:
I struggle with perfectionism.
I am extremely self-aware, almost to a fault. (I call it hyper-awareness.)

So my biggest problem, and the reason I brought this up, is that I'm far TOO aware of my sins. Basically, I go through life trying to avoid any sins I can, watching vigilantly and keying in on every sin I commit in order to confess it to God almost ritualistically.

Jesus said that a hostile or lustful thought is just as much a sin as the act itself. I commit very few sins of action, but I have a very impulsive mind. So in other words, I'm constantly having these sinful thoughts without being able to stop them. Then I feel guilty, then Satan uses that to make me feel unclean, then I feel like I have to confess to God to be clean, and so on every time I commit the tiniest sin. You can imagine how that affects my life.

I'm free (from sin), and I know this, yet I don't feel free, because I'm so aware of and self-conscious of every sin I commit (because I feel like I need to be in order to confess them).

I feel like I'm more focused on sin and confession than on God and forgiveness.

So in other words, it would be so liberating to me to just go through the day knowing I'm forgiven, not dwelling on my sins. It would help me greatly if I didn't feel like I had to acknowledge each and every sin I commit and go through the act of confession, because, as you mentioned, that DOES make one more aware of their sins. And that I don't need. That's why I'd like to just have an understanding with God, that if I'm aware of the sin and feel repentance in my heart, I don't have to make it all the more a focus of my life by going through a prayer of confession.

Eh, I've gone on at length. Some of this is somewhat personal. I hope you have a better understanding of my situation now and can offer further help.

Spiritsword

[Technomancer]

As others have mentioned here, God does not need a catalogue of our mistakes. When you confess, you know that you sin, and that it is a part of your nature. You don't need to say that "I did X on Tuesday, again on Wednsday, and on Saturday also at 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock". The important part is that you acknowldge your problem with X. You need to reflect on the circumstances of course, try to avoid the pitfalls that caused you to err in the first place. That's my opinion anyways, hope it's helpful.

[Rashiir]

Yah, I don't think you need to take 10 min out of the day for each sin...Perhaps the most important thing you could do when Satan tries to make you feel guilty is to tell him to get away from you! And I think more important than confession is asking God for help to not do it again...

[Saint]

Wow, Confession is a big issue... but the one that bothers me most is the salvation issue on this thread. so please read this first, i think we all agree at least on the first part.

God's solution for sin is established by His grace. Grace is all that God is free to do for each of us on the basis of the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross. We do not earn or deserve grace; we can do nothing to merit the favor and blessing of God. He has done everything for us.
Sin separates the unbeliever from God. Since Jesus Christ resolved the sin problem on the cross, just one issue confronts the unbeliever: What do you think about Christ? The issue is resolved by one simple act of faith. "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." Acts 16:31b "For by grace you have been saved through faith [believing in Christ]; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Eph. 2:8-9
When you believe in Jesus Christ, a nonmeritorious act, God the Holy Spirit instantly enters you into a personal and eternal relationship with God the Father. You are saved by grace. Even though you are still a flawed human being, you have been declared righteous at the moment of salvation when you are given the righteousness of God (Rom. 4:3-5; 2 Cor. 5:21). No matter how many sins you commit in your Christian life, your eternal relationship can never be broken because the immutable promise of God guarantees your transgressions will not be remembered. "I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake; and I will not remember your sins." (Isa. 43:25)

I would personally hate to live with a fearful belief that if i died at an inopportune moment i would go to hell. thankfully i have never found a verse which claims this.

As for still having sin in our lives... yeah... its a part of our human nature, and creates a struggle within us, to do stuff Gods way or the worldly/human way. And it is a struggle. "For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate." Rom. 7:15 "So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin [human nature] which indwells me." Rom. 7:17
Their are a bunch of sin types and trends. types such as Spoken (lies, gossip), Action (theft, murder, drug abuse) and Thought (hate, arrogance, guilt, fear). tons of sins in every type.
And the trends: One is toward legalism -- a futile attempt to earn salvation, spirituality, or the approbation of God through morality or good works. "All our righteous deeds [human good] are like a filthy garment." Isa. 64:6b
and Lasciviousness- the self-gratification sins. usually you are mainly one or the other... you don't see to many very "religious" guys out drunk in the streets. still you can have lusts from both types.
Lust is an illicit or perhaps insatiable desire, the motivation toward either trend. Lust types include approbation, power, sexual, social, monetary, materialism, revenge, criminal, chemical, crusader, and pleasure.
So its true we will all sin plenty in life.. but salvation can never be forfeited. Jesus paid the total price for sin, this complete payment guarantees our eternal destiny in heaven. Read Rom. 8:38-39; 1 Cor. 15:22; John 10:28; 1 Pet. 1:4-5a)

What sin has to do with isn't our relationship with God, but our fellowship with Him. This fellowship is our walk with God. We will either choose to live in a carnality or by the Spirit. (1 Cor. 3:1-3 and Gal. 5:22-23)
So when we mess up and have decided for the worldly way, to go back to the Spirits way its really just a change of mind. (Eph. 5:18)
Confession: 1 John 1:9 "If we confess [homologeo-"name"] our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us [cancel] our sins and to cleanse [purify] us from all unrighteousness."
The greek word for homologeo, translated confess, means "to name, cite, admit, acknowledge." The verb was used primarily in a judicial context as "confess a crime in court, to make a legal statement." First John 1:9 is no exception. The word means simply to acknowledge or name your sins to God. Homologeo does not mean to feel sorry for sins, to publicly renounce sins, or to suffer a guilty conscience; there is no emotional connotation involved. First John 1:9 does not say, If we ask or beg for forgiveness. Just acknowledge your sins.

I will talk about what else you should do to help stamp out sin in your life later. (... we should strive to be more like Christ, yet i doubt any of us will come to a point in life when we are so in line with God's will that we don't sin anymore. )

[Ashley]

Lots'ah good points here. What I'd add in is how I'd combat that impulsive mind struggle with is this:
Every time it occurs, instantly call out to God. Tell him how you're feeling, and that you want to be free. Just ask that He help you feel redeemed again. If you're persistent, I think your faith will grow above Satan's continued attacks on it this way. It doesn't have to be lengthy or anything, just a simple "Father help me!"
Plus, you could make an "act"--not in a showy way, but in a very real spiritual way--of sacrificing your thoughts to God. For example, say you have a lusty thought. Instantly "remind" (I use this word figuratively) God that He is the Lord of your heart and mind, and that you wish to serve him in all ways.
In the long run, it could be to teach you something. I will not presume what our loving Father wants to tell you through this, but it could be anything. Keep your eyes and ears "open", and your heart light. Because this, like everything else, will pass too. Be encouraged that Christ did know of all our sins when he took that cross, chose to anyway, and furthermore promises to be with us through all our times so that we can be made perfect. Remember the one in you is far stronger than the one trying to tear you down.

[EireWolf]

Jesus said that a hostile or lustful thought is just as much a sin as the act itself. I commit very few sins of action, but I have a very impulsive mind. So in other words, I'm constantly having these sinful thoughts without being able to stop them. Then I feel guilty, then Satan uses that to make me feel unclean, then I feel like I have to confess to God to be clean, and so on every time I commit the tiniest sin. You can imagine how that affects my life.

Hi Spiritsword. I think I see the crux of the problem. Satan is also aware of it, and the little sneak is doing all he can to capitalize on it.

The good thing is, you seem very faithful. You want to please God, and God will honor that. I think the problem comes when you beat yourself up for something you possibly didn't even do.

Here's the thing: You said you have an impulsive mind, and that you constantly have sinful thoughts without being able to stop them. It sounds to me like these are momentary, fleeting thoughts that you aren't really dwelling on... am I right? If so, then I don't see that you're sinning. Satan can plant a thought, tell you you're bad for thinking it, and pound you with guilt if you let him. But in this case, you didn't even really do anything!

For example... Say you glance at a pretty girl, and have a momentary thought. Then you look away and don't follow that thought. That is not a sin, as far as I can tell. BUT, if you look again, and take those thoughts further, THAT is when you are stepping into sin. When Satan makes you feel guilty for that brief momentary thought that you didn't follow any further, that's when he is capitalizing on your desire for holiness and turning it around on you. You're not the first person that Satan has tried to use even the Word of God against... he tried it with Jesus, too, when he tempted Him in the desert.

When you feel guilty for something like this, take that thought captive and ask God, "Is this guilt from you? If not, I don't want it! Please take the guilt that Satan is trying to burden me with." The Holy Spirit does not use guilt in such a way that it shackles you. Only Satan does that. The Holy Spirit wants to set you free! And you have the Holy Spirit on your side when you know Christ.

"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." (2 Corinthians 10:4-5)

Satan is using guilt as a stronghold in your life. Ask the Holy Spirit to demolish that stronghold. Satan has setting up arguments and pretensions against the knowledge of God (telling you you're guilty, damaging your fellowship with God), but you have the power in Christ to take any thoughts captive and make them obedient to Him. You are free! And Satan is doing everything he can to keep you from living that way.

Have you ever read "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis? It's a fiction work, but it's very insightful and a good read. It's basically about some of the sneaky methods Satan uses to drag down the chlldren of his Enemy (God).

You are free in Christ. Live free!

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. " (Galatians 5:1)

[Spiritsword]

Originally posted by EireWolf:
Hi Spiritsword. I think I see the crux of the problem. Satan is also aware of it, and the little sneak is doing all he can to capitalize on it.
When Satan makes you feel guilty for that brief momentary thought that you didn't follow any further, that's when he is capitalizing on your desire for holiness and turning it around on you. You're not the first person that Satan has tried to use even the Word of God against... he tried it with Jesus, too, when he tempted Him in the desert.

Good point, EireWolf. Yes, it's almost like Satan is actually using my desire to be closer to God against me. It seems almost paradoxical, yet it's having an effect on me.

Originally posted by EireWolf:
It sounds to me like these are momentary, fleeting thoughts that you aren't really dwelling on... am I right?

For the most part. Occasionally I will dwell on one, but then it's almost a half-unconscious act, where I don't really realize I'm doing it for awhile. And then when I do realize it, which I always do, I turn to God.

And again, EireWolf:
Have you ever read "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis?

Yes! Great book. I recommend it to anyone, Christian and non-Christian alike. A Christian friend of mine got me to read it back in college when I was still basically agnostic. It was one of the things God used to bring me back to Him. Of course, that's been several years and I remember the overall impression it made on me rather than anything specific. Maybe I'll have to read it again.

Lots of good points from everyone, as Ash said. This is an interesting and helpful discussion so far (and just feeling this Godly support through you all helps too!).

Spiritsword

[uc pseudonym]

It sounds as though you have found some resolution, which is a good thing. I would also like to stress what Eirewolf said, there's a big difference between a temptation and an actual sin. Like Ashley said, there's no need to dwell on the fact that you sinned. A split-second prayer is enough. If you mean what I think you do about perfectionism, I feel your pain, as it's a struggle of mine as well.

The only other thing that I'd like to say is that I think we didn't mention one type of sin: sins of omission. Sometimes not doing something is worse than any sinful act.

[Master Kenzo]

Spiritsword, I know how you feel. That scripture gets me too. But you have to remember something. Are you ready? This could change your life.

Temptation is not a sin.

If you are tempted to do something, it's not you talking, it's the devil. When you are tempted to lust after someone, it is your choice whether or not to actually lust. You can dwell on it in your thoughts, or you can put it aside and think about something else. Here's another spiritual tidbit:

Where the mind goes, the man follows.

If you dwell on the temptation in your mind, it plants a seed. If that seed grows, it turns into "real" sin, where you actually do it, not just thinking about it.

The longer you dwell on a temptation, the harder it is to resist.

But if you keep your eyes focused on Jesus Christ and the cross, then you will not stumble.

Just remember that. Thanks for listening.

[EireWolf]

Yes, it's almost like Satan is actually using my desire to be closer to God against me. It seems almost paradoxical, yet it's having an effect on me.

Yeah, the little sneak is really good at that sort of thing. Making us wallow in guilt is one of his favorite tricks, since it keeps us from getting closer to God.

Maybe I'll have to read it again.

(Re: The Screwtape Letters) Yes! I recommend it. It's very very good, especially for Christians who are under attack by the enemy (who is very real and very cunning).

You've got lots of prayers coming your way, brother. Let us know how you're doing.

~~EireWolf~~

[Technomancer]

Reminds me of something from Mary Doria Russell's novel "The Children of God" (If you haven't read this, or "The Sparrow" go out and find these books!).

One of the characters, Ha'anala is talking about why the Hebrews both feared and loved God. She thinks first about the Egyptians who only approached their gods dressed in their best clothes. But God sees us always, not as we pretend to be or how we are when we are all dressed up, but how we are at all times. But in spite of this, God still loves us.

To remember this is important, because otherwise we may be led to despair of ever being "worthy" or "good enough". (Note, I'm not trying to argue soteriology here). We aren't and that's the point: despite this we may still find the love and mercy of God.