TWWK wrote:Hmm...a lot of the posts here seem to cast a negative light on prioritizing church.
TWWK wrote: hope is that frequent church attendance is more of an organic thing, happening out of spiritual growth, than out of obligation or, in worse case, because of another forcing one to attend.
Ally-Ann wrote:at least one of those days can be used to take an hour and a half to two hours to worship the God who created you and loves you.
Hmm...a lot of the posts here seem to cast a negative light on prioritizing church.
I hope mine didn't, though I guess it may have come off that way. The point I was making is that currently, I am in a position where I can't really turn down a job just because it interferes with church. If there are people who are well-off enough that they have the luxury to say "I can't work Sunday ever, and if you want me to then I'm not taking this job," then hey, that's pretty awesome. Unfortunately for me, I do not have that luxury. I have to take whatever job I can get. And when that job requires me to work 12 hours every other Sunday, during all the hours that services could possibly be held, that pretty much renders me incapable of attending church.
AndrewinIce wrote:'how can you be a Christian if you don't even go to church?'
"Nobody goes to church because they're perfect. If you've got it all together, you don't need to go. You can go jogging with all the other perfect people on Sunday morning. Every time you go to church, you're confessing again to yourself, to your family, to the people you pass on the way there, to the people who will greet you there, that you don't have it all together. And that you need their support. You need their direction. You need some accountability. You need some help." -- R. Mullins
Yuki-Anne wrote:I stumbled upon a quote that I think might be relevant to this thread:"Nobody goes to church because they're perfect. If you've got it all together, you don't need to go. You can go jogging with all the other perfect people on Sunday morning. Every time you go to church, you're confessing again to yourself, to your family, to the people you pass on the way there, to the people who will greet you there, that you don't have it all together. And that you need their support. You need their direction. You need some accountability. You need some help." -- R. Mullins
I think seeing church attendance as a sacrament or a requirement is a mistake. Maybe we should try to see it more as a support group than a boy scout meeting.
Hi, I'm Anne, and I'm a sinner.
Nate wrote:AndrewinIce wrote:'how can you be a Christian if you don't even go to church?'
That's kind of an odd sentiment that I can't wrap my head around. What about missionaries who go to third world countries? There aren't churches over there, so are they not Christians? That's a pretty ridiculous claim.
Or let's say I write a book and become a best-selling author, but never write another book for the rest of my life. Am I suddenly not an author just because I didn't write more books? Does the fact that I'm not actively practicing authoring a book somehow retroactively destroy my accomplishments as an author in the past? It's just nonsense.
Zeldafan2 wrote:But regardless, some people are required to go to church every week because whoever is telling them to do so is hoping they'll come to learn more about, and to love Christianity. Now, of course, you don't NEED to go to church in order to love Christianity, but not only do they feel it helps them get to know other believers, and learn more about how to spread the word, but they also feel its a way of honoring the Sabbath day by going to church to worship God.
Vilo159 wrote:fortunately not every "support group" is full of power-abusive leaders and opinionated jerks. There are ones out there who actually function successfully as support groups. They may not like the same things you like, but they'll support you in doing them.
Nate wrote:Vilo159 wrote:fortunately not every "support group" is full of power-abusive leaders and opinionated jerks. There are ones out there who actually function successfully as support groups. They may not like the same things you like, but they'll support you in doing them.
I wish that was true where I lived.
I'm in the South.
Being opinionated and bigoted is almost a requirement to live down here. Which means no churches that fit me.
Xeno wrote:I'd also say that there is probably a vastly different view between what Nate would look for in a church or fellowship group and what the average church-going Christian looks for. Most churches are just incapable of supporting unconventional Christians without trying to force those people into a box of some kind so that they can be labeled and treated in a certain way. Despite the plethora of denominations (and "non-denominations") that there are, many Christians still don't hit the check boxes of any of them and have no place to go other than to their bible and living room. Would it be nice if every Christian had a church they could go to? Absolutely, I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be the all encompassing concept that was laid out in the latter books of the New Testament for the most part, but that isn't how things are ran now. Most churches feel that if you don't believe their X amount of doctrines then you aren't "in". Christianity is a religion that emerged from a highly exclusive one, started on a path to becoming the most inclusive one that ever existed (if what the holy book says is true), and then shifted and instead became just as exclusive as the religion it emerged from, but in different ways.
If there was a man named Jesus and he did preach what the bible says he preached, then every Christian, regardless of the little nitpicky differences regarding beliefs about modern day social and economic policies, or the existence of modern day nations and governments, or how salvation actually works (baptism necessary or not), or how the godhead exists (oneness, trinity, duology?) should all be completely irrelevant and believers should be allowed to worship in peace together. But that's not how things are because Christianity is more divided amonst itself at times, calling each other heretics and false prophets, than the US House of Representatives. Time spent doing that is time that could be better spent serving the people of the world to let the "light" of your god shine through you.
But back to the original point: I've got a feeling that Nate's issue is that he doesn't fit into any of the boxes being presented by Christian churches. Yet, he is still a Christian and no less of one for not attending weekly services.
Nate wrote:Vilo159 wrote:fortunately not every "support group" is full of power-abusive leaders and opinionated jerks. There are ones out there who actually function successfully as support groups. They may not like the same things you like, but they'll support you in doing them.
I wish that was true where I lived.
I'm in the South.
Being opinionated and bigoted is almost a requirement to live down here. Which means no churches that fit me.
Vilo159 wrote:You are right, I didn't really take into account Nate's particular beliefs, I was thinking more on the terms of personal tastes like anime, as he used as an example. But I still think there' s something out there for him, he can't be the only one with those beliefs. There's gotta be one that hits all the checkboxes. The question is more of whether or not its worth the effort to try and find that group, which in his case its probably not and he's gonna get more out of his religion by doing it on his own.
Nate wrote:Vilo159 wrote:You are right, I didn't really take into account Nate's particular beliefs, I was thinking more on the terms of personal tastes like anime, as he used as an example. But I still think there' s something out there for him, he can't be the only one with those beliefs. There's gotta be one that hits all the checkboxes. The question is more of whether or not its worth the effort to try and find that group, which in his case its probably not and he's gonna get more out of his religion by doing it on his own.
I used a harmless example like anime for a reason. Well, two reasons. One, because there have been people on here whose parents thought anime was "ultra-violent Japanese porn cartoons" and therefore Christians shouldn't watch it, so it was an example some people could readily identify with, going "Hey, I remember my parents/church group saying that." Two, because any other examples I wanted to use could have sparked theological debate, and that's no good.
You're probably right that I'm not the only one who holds the beliefs I do. The world is a pretty big place, and I'm sure there's plenty of other people who think the same way I do. I've even met a couple. The problem is there aren't very many people like that in this geographical location, and even if there are, there certainly aren't enough of them to have a church. In fact, the others who are similar to me are probably not attending church either, for the same reasons I am. This makes it nearly impossible to find like-minded people, unless I go around places wearing a "HI I AM A LIBERAL SOCIALIST CHRISTIAN" t-shirt. I think that would make me kind of annoying though, so I don't think I'll do that.
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