I watched it hoping that I would wind up thinking differently, but unfortunately I think the same. I'd watch it again if I thought there were a decent chance of the ending making more sense to me as a result -- but I don't.Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1488291) wrote:Also, C's ending was worse than I expected it to be.
I'm not sure how they can satisfactorily do this. The writers have broken their own rules, and writing a new garbage rule that retroactively validates the rule-breaking in this week's episode won't cut the mustard with me. I'm assuming of course that they haven't already planned all of this out from the beginning, an assumption that is justifiable, given the fact that we're watching a post-1995 anime.MasterDias (post: 1494782) wrote:B. be addressed in a later episode.
Two things: (1.) I think you're misunderstanding my complaints about proof. I don't mind the going theory that undoing the D-mails will undo the cause of [spoiler]Mayuri's death.[/spoiler] That is indeed a safe assumption. The "proof problem" I have is better expressed as a problem of justification. Feryis doesn't seem to have a non-arbitrary reason for thinking the way she does. She claims that what I'll call World Line B is somehow less real than her jogged memory of World Line A (in which [spoiler]her father died).[/spoiler] The implication is that WLA is more real (she says as much) b/c it wasn't altered by D-mail. Here's the problem: no one can prove that WLA wasn't also altered in some way. Perhaps a SERN employee manually altered WLA-1 to become WLA that we are all familiar with. Weren't there a plethora of world lines to begin with, all resulting from various choices people make? D-mail isn't the only way to change world lines. My problem lies in Feryis claiming (and she does claim this) that WLA is real while WLB is like a dream. Her only basis for this claim is the unjustifiable idea that WLA is untainted and thus more real.Also:
[spoiler]The point was not so much that either world line was not real. But that manipulating the new world line into existence is highly likely to have partially led to the death of a another good friend. No, you can't prove that, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption for them to make and trying to reverse the world line changes is better than doing nothing. I mean if I was in Feyris' shoes I would have probably made the same choice, as painful as it was.[/spoiler]
Right, it's an adaptation. We are talking about anime studios here, who, for various reasons, often change elements of stories when adapting them. Assuming the studio might be changing or just leaving out stuff from the VN isn't really a crazy assumption. And if this is the case, again based on a 15 year track record, it's also not crazy to believe that the studio probably doesn't have "their" part(s) of the story blocked out.blkmage (post: 1495001) wrote:Of course they've planned it out since the beginning, it's an adaptation of a visual novel that's already finished.
I'm not sure how they can satisfactorily do this. The writers have broken their own rules, and writing a new garbage rule that retroactively validates the rule-breaking in this week's episode won't cut the mustard with me.
Why turn your back on ten years of REALITY, life no less real than WLA (in fact, I'd argue it's MORE real than WLA b/c it has actually happened to the her in WLB)? There isn't any compelling reason to choose the life of a friend over the life of a close member of her immediate family, assuming the choice to undo D-mail does have direct bearing on these matters.
Sure, Ferys and Mayushi were good friends. But, this is her father we're talking about here. She used a D-mail to bring him back. I don't actually think the choice is easy at all. I stated that she doesn't have a compelling moral reason to choose friend over family, and that makes it all the more difficult. If anything, it seemed like you were claiming the choice Ferys makes in the show was a slam dunk, easy win, obvious choice. I wanted to make a case for the other side, as it's actually the way I was leaning, especially given the circumstances that the ten years she spent with her dad are CONCRETE REALITY, no less real (probably they seem more real b/c she is currently in that world line) while WLA is a memory.MasterDias (post: 1495081) wrote:Now, wait a second. Where is this 15-years/1995 coming from? I need more context for this]1995 refers to the year that Neon Genesis Evangelion debuted on television. It's pretty well known that Hideaki Anno had the first few episodes of Eva scripted (mostly along the lines of the manga), but that was really all the long-term planning he did for Eva. The bulk of the storyline/content of the show was created week-to-week, by the seat of Anno's trousers. We all know that Eva was a wild, smashing success, and success breeds imitators. Other studios began to try to be the next Evangelion, not only in terms of plot but in production methods as well. If Anno doesn't need to plan, then neither do we. Falling into this habit came very easy for the creators, as studios kept taking on projects with some source material already written out but that were ultimately unfinished (we can put story planning off and concentrate on animation...oh snap!). Due to lack of $$$ in anime, creators also have to take on lots of work before they have a chance to block out the narrative. Since the industry isn't necessarily flush with money, I'd assume the lack-of-planning trend continues, even if the fad of wanting to be the next Eva died down a few years ago.While logically speaking, you are quite correct, assume the worst and you'll never be disappointed =). I have been burned too many times when this sort of thing occurs, so I'd rather be proven wrong and delightfully surprised than assume they will get it right and, in all likelihood, be let down.The problem I have with this is that you are making a judgement based on missing/vague information, or in other words, are assuming that the information we were previously given is accurate/complete. At least wait until the actual "cause" is revealed, not just the "effect."Not necessarily. They weren't just random acquaintances; they appeared to be pretty close friends. At any rate, I don't agree that it's as black and white as you're making it out to be.
That is a fair point, but I realize that I wasn't clear in expressing a point I meant to get across. It is my understanding that Eva started the ball rolling, but many other factors, including financial issues and the projects selected by anime studios, have acted as the "gravity" to keep the ball rolling long after the cause for the initial push has ceased to be a relevant factor.blkmage (post: 1495132) wrote:I can see someone trying to pull that in the few years after that, but fifteen years later? I don't think so. The industry has gone through so many shifts that it'd be absurd to assume anyone still does that.
Sure, Ferys and Mayushi were good friends. But, this is her father we're talking about here. She used a D-mail to bring him back. I don't actually think the choice is easy at all. I stated that she doesn't have a compelling moral reason to choose friend over family, and that makes it all the more difficult. If anything, it seemed like you were claiming the choice Ferys makes in the show was a slam dunk, easy win, obvious choice. I wanted to make a case for the other side, as it's actually the way I was leaning, especially given the circumstances that the ten years she spent with her dad are CONCRETE REALITY, no less real (probably they seem more real b/c she is currently in that world line) while WLA is a memory.
Also, it's not like one has to present the higher-ups with a complete script from top to bottom. All kinds of half-cocked ideas get green-lit. I'm pretty convinced this sort of thing is why so so many anime have had endings whose quality of writing was dramatically poorer than their beginnings.
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