Purity

[aliveinHim]

I see purity as a lifestyle, not an idol. It's hard not having crushes (especially anime crushes) but I need to tell myself no as much as my flesh is telling me yes. People don't need to make an overly huge deal with a purity ball or wedding. Apparently, some people simply have too much time and money.

[TopazRaven]

What's so wrong about having a crush on someone? You're not aloud to like someone...? Good luck finding a husband someday then.

[K. Ayato]

Yeah, that sounds a lot like huge self-denial that Paul wrote against in Colossians. Crushes are part of life. Even with this lifestyle you're embracing, it's OKAY to admit you like someone (bold added for emphasis). If you're implying that they've become a major distraction to things you want to focus more time and energy on, then I can see why maybe having a crush isn't a good thing for the moment. Can you clarify on where you stand on this? 'Cause it sounds like you believe you can't have a crush ever.

[Yamamaya]

I see purity as a lifestyle, not an idol. It's hard not having crushes (especially anime crushes) but I need to tell myself no as much as my flesh is telling me yes. People don't need to make an overly huge deal with a purity ball or wedding. Apparently, some people simply have too much time and money.

See I don't get this at all. Attraction and crushes are a natural part of life. That's how God created us. Denying it is unnatural.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't use self control. That's a general moral rule for anything in life.

[Maledicte]

CRUSHES ARE NOT BAD. It's what you DO with them that matters.

For example, I had a crush on a guy. He seemed to be the entire package for me - tall, handsome, intelligent, sense of humor, polite, we got along well. Really, really wanted to start a relationship with him. Then, I found out he had (and still has) a girlfriend. So I backed off, and put the crush away. I can still think he's attractive, and I can still definitely be his friend and help him out. But I will not barge in or try to sabotage his relationship. That would be evil.

Thinking "S/he's cute! I'd like to go out with her/him" is natural, acceptable, and healthy. If you never have a crush on anyone, that's healthy too. But if you're forcing yourself to NEVER have a single crush on anyone EVER, then you're twisting yourself for no apparent reason, and it will likely affect anyone you choose to have a relationship with... if it doesn't affect your chances of getting into a relationship in the first place.

Having said that, when you have a crush, it's up to you to maintain your relationship with God, and to treat the person you are crushing on as a human being. They are created by God and deserve to be loved and respected as one of His children.

As for anime crushes...well, they're fictional. Hope you keep that in mind. ^^

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm with Maledicte.

[Nate]

I would say that 1 Cor. 6:18 indicates that there is something different about sexual sin, something that makes it unlike any other sin.

As much as this statement interests me and I'd like to get into it, we're now into the "Are all sins equal in God's eyes or are some sins worse than others and if some sins are worse than others does that mean God doesn't care about the lesser sins as much?" And that's a pretty big subject.

I'm not entirely sure why you're so intent on railing against purity. How is deciding not to commit sexual sin such a horrible thing?

I'm not railing against purity. Purity is great. It's a good thing! I'm railing against how purity is treated in the modern church. Rusty put it best, better than I can, so I'll quote Rusty since he said what I want to say:

Personally, Imho I don't see why people need to make such a fuss over something that's supposed to be the standard.

And that's what I see purity being elevated to. It's celebrating the minimum of what we're supposed to do. It's basically saying "Look at me, I'm doing what God commanded!" Well so what? We're supposed to do it anyway. I don't want a party thrown every time I drive the speed limit, because the speed limit is the standard. I'm always supposed to be driving the speed limit. Why should I make a big deal out of doing what I'm supposed to do?

Second, you're doing the thing that we've been complaining about. You ask why I'm railing against purity, and then you talk about sexual sin. Purity, as has been stated countless times, is not just about sex. Why does the church insist on making purity all about sex? I don't know. Purity is far, FAR more than sex, but you wouldn't know it from the church. To limit purity solely to sexual affairs is doing a great disservice to what purity is. Okami has posted a lot about how purity is not just sex.

Third, it does more harm than good in my opinion. We're already seeing how the church hammering "purity" into people's heads is kind of doing damage. Look at aliveinHim and her statements about how she thinks it's bad to get a crush. Crushes are normal, and not sinful at all! But we've gotten to the point where the church is like "If you even say 'That person is cute' you've committed a sin and you need to repent!" That's not healthy.

Fourth, purity is great, but love is greater. Love is the greatest thing in all Creation. Putting emphasis on "purity" I feel overshadows the fact that love is the greatest thing, not purity. I don't know if it was you who mentioned it, but I remember someone saying they were doing a mission thing and they wouldn't let a girl and a boy talk to each other alone or something. They were so concerned about "purity" that they may have denied love in that situation. That's bad...VERY bad.

There is nothing wrong with purity. Hey, purity is great! Even though the Bible hardly ever talks about it. I just feel that too much emphasis is placed on purity...which doesn't make purity a bad thing! It's just emphasized too much.

It's kind of like how Mary is venerated in Catholicism, and it's not like Mary wasn't a great woman, because she is! But many Protestants feel too much emphasis is placed on Mary (regardless of how great she is) and that this is a bad thing. I hope that doesn't cause debate, I'm not here to say whether that's right or wrong, but to give you an example of how I feel about the status "purity" is given in the church, and especially how purity is watered down and cheapened to merely mean "not having sex."

I know saving your virginity is one thing that can distinguish us from the world, but it shouldn't be the only thing.

And this too.

[Yuki-Anne]

The only way to be pure is to NEVER FEEL ANYTHING EVER. You put those emotions in a deep, dark place where the sun don't shine, because emotions are an affront to the cross.

EDIT: I got ninja'd.

Look, I understand where you're coming from, and I agree purity is not the be-all-end-all of faith. I would even agree that yes, it is over-emphasized in a lot of ways.

All's I'm saying is, I went to some of these Purity Balls and they aren't as creepy and "incestuous" (what a hurtful word) as you guys are making them out to be. They really celebrate good, healthy relationships between fathers and daughters, and that's a good thing. My father is one of the best and wisest men I have ever known, and I loved having that time with him.

I also think you're making too big a deal out of purity rings. I never pointed out my purity ring to non-Christians and said, "I'm better than you, and this is what makes me a Christian." As I said before, I wore it for my own personal reasons. I lost it some time ago, but I didn't care. I freaked out more when I lost one of the earrings that my mother gave me which were super cool and older than I was. She bought them at a Renaissance Fair. And then one slipped into another dimension as I was taking it off after my best friend's wedding. That was of more emotional significance to me.

[Nate]

The only way to be pure is to NEVER FEEL ANYTHING EVER.

While you were being sarcastic the sad thing is that there are churches that say exactly that.

[Yuki-Anne]

While you were being sarcastic the sad thing is that there are churches that say exactly that.

Never been to one myself, but the minute I find First Church of the Vulcan Jesus, I'm at least going to sit in on a service for the lolz.

Edit:

If I was a girl, let's just say I would never want to attend a purity ball. For one, it sounds way to incestuous. Secondly, you're not going to get too many offers for dates when people found out you went to a purity ball with your dad.

As a guy, I might be hesitant, just saying.

Dude, if you said that about a Christian woman who got pregnant in high school and then aborted the baby, but didn't do stuff like that anymore, we'd all be like, "Hey, don't be so judgmental, it's in the past. Love her for who she is, don't judge her for what she's done."

And yet it's okay to judge someone for... committing to sexual abstinence and going to a party with their father? Sounds like the most backwards double standard ever. Also, the automatic conclusion that this is somehow incestuous is really offensive to me. If some girl goes to a school dance with her best guy friend (with whom there is no attraction on either side), would you automatically assume something unseemly had happened? Granted, it's not the same thing, I'm not saying it is, but it's ridiculous to point at father/daughter dances and go, "Eew, incest!" as if dancing = sex.

[aliveinHim]

What's so wrong about having a crush on someone? You're not aloud to like someone...? Good luck finding a husband someday then.

I have crushes all the time (my friends, sisters, and I talk about boys all the time). You need to have a sense of attraction in order to marry that person. I do believe that you might not feel an instant attraction but you can grow on someone. You don't notice people how attractive they are until you get to know them and see what they're like. Personality can really make people beautiful.

[Yamamaya]

Dude, if you said that about a Christian woman who got pregnant in high school and then aborted the baby, but didn't do stuff like that anymore, we'd all be like, "Hey, don't be so judgmental, it's in the past. Love her for who she is, don't judge her for what she's done."

And yet it's okay to judge someone for... committing to sexual abstinence and going to a party with their father? Sounds like the most backwards double standard ever. Also, the automatic conclusion that this is somehow incestuous is really offensive to me. If some girl goes to a school dance with her best guy friend (with whom there is no attraction on either side), would you automatically assume something unseemly had happened? Granted, it's not the same thing, I'm not saying it is, but it's ridiculous to point at father/daughter dances and go, "Eew, incest!" as if dancing = sex.

I worded that wrong. What I mean was that I tend to not go for girls that I know are really intent on the "courting, no kissing, etc." I have nothing against them, but I'd feel intimidated while dating them or feel like I would instantly get rejected. Not to mention that I'd feel nervous if I was being "evaluated for marriage."

That still doesn't change the fact that purity balls creep me out. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't care if a girl does go to one. That's her choice.

[TopazRaven]

Dude, if you said that about a Christian woman who got pregnant in high school and then aborted the baby, but didn't do stuff like that anymore, we'd all be like, "Hey, don't be so judgmental, it's in the past. Love her for who she is, don't judge her for what she's done."

And yet it's okay to judge someone for... committing to sexual abstinence and going to a party with their father? Sounds like the most backwards double standard ever. Also, the automatic conclusion that this is somehow incestuous is really offensive to me. If some girl goes to a school dance with her best guy friend (with whom there is no attraction on either side), would you automatically assume something unseemly had happened? Granted, it's not the same thing, I'm not saying it is, but it's ridiculous to point at father/daughter dances and go, "Eew, incest!" as if dancing = sex.

Even though I do have to say that I find purity balls kind of creepy and unneeded (sorry Yuki!) I have to agree with what she's saying here. How does going to a ball/dance with you dad equate to incest? That's a pretty rude and gross assumption. 0.o

[Yuki-Anne]

I can see how people would think it was creepy, and I agree that it is unnecessary. But if a dad and daughter want to go to one, I think it's kind of sweet. But I have a really great relationship with my dad. If we hadn't had such a great relationship, I probably would have hated the whole idea and resented my dad for dragging me to something like that.

[Yamamaya]

Even though I do have to say that I find purity balls kind of creepy and unneeded (sorry Yuki!) I have to agree with what she's saying here. How does going to a ball/dance with you dad equate to incest? That's a pretty rude and gross assumption. 0.o

I never said it acutally is incest, it just gives me those bad vibes. The whole pledge your virginity to dad thing just doesn't sit that well with me.

I do apologize to Yuki and everyone here for using that word. It was insensitive of me to put it like that.

[Nate]

I have no problem with father-daughter dances. Those are good. The reason I find purity balls disturbing is that unlike regular dances, the focus is solely on sex (or rather, not having sex, but that's still focusing on sex).

[Yuki-Anne]

I never said it acutally is incest, it just gives me those bad vibes. The whole pledge your virginity to dad thing just doesn't sit that well with me.

I do apologize to Yuki and everyone here for using that word. It was insensitive of me to put it like that.

Apology accepted.

And when you put it like that, "pledge your virginity to dad," it really DOES sound creepy. I guess I went to an unusual one, because part of the whole signing commitments thing involved the dads promising to set a good example of love and respect in their own marriages and relationships. The dads pledged to purity, too. So essentially it was me and my dad both promising each other that we would follow God; Dad promising to be a good example and support for me, and me promising to follow that example and be the best young woman of God I could be.

I guess you guys hear about creepy ones.

[Nate]

me promising to follow that example and be the best young woman of God I could be.

See that just sounds like baptism to me but without being immersed in water and with only your dad there instead of your entire family and church and signing a piece of paper instead of having one given to you. *shrug*

[Yamamaya]

If I was a father, I probably wouldn't want to go to a purity ball with my daughter first of all for the creepiness factor. And secondly I wouldn't want her to feel like she was less of a person if she did lose her virginity.

Not to mention this kind of continues to showcase the view that a woman's virginity is worth more than a man's. Boys will be boys, but if a girl does it, it's horrible.

[shooraijin]

Dead purity ball horse is dead. Further beating of said dead horse not advised.

[Atria35]

But can we turn it into a horse of a different color?

[Yamamaya]

But can we turn it into a horse of a different color?

I'd prefer a dragon to a horse. Now I might go to a dragon purity ball.

[mechana2015]

I'd prefer to not attend any balls where ANYTHING is draggin'

[Rusty Claymore]

huh, I thought I clicked a "purity" thread, but I musta missed... XP

[Atria35]

huh, I thought I clicked a "purity" thread, but I musta missed... XP

Well, it's not purely one!

[Yamamaya]

Purity? That certainly rings a bell.

[K. Ayato]

[aliveinHim]

Awww, come on, it's fun talking about purity balls. My philosophy: KISS (Keep it Simple, Sister!). lol

[shooraijin]

Jokes aside, that topic has been beaten into the ground. If there's some other aspect or perspective on Christian purity someone would like to bring up, by all means.

[aliveinHim]

Howbout kissing?