Purity

[bkilbour]

I would say that David was imperfect - yes, he was a man after God's own heart.
And he was, like all other human beings, completely imperfect.
Patrick's right again! It is the way of the heart, not the deeds of the hands, that matter more in the eyes of God.

[Yamamaya]

Yet the definition of purity being used here seems to apply specifically to sexual purity. That's why I was bringing up David and others.

[Nate]

It is the way of the heart, not the deeds of the hands, that matter more in the eyes of God.

Then why would premarital sex with a woman I was engaged to marry be a sin if the way of the heart matters more?

[bkilbour]

Because we are still to obey God.
John 14 says that if we love Him, we obey Him.
Yes, the way of the heart matters more, but the actions of the individual still do matter.

[Seto_Sora]

Yet the definition of purity being used here seems to apply specifically to sexual purity. That's why I was bringing up David and others.

Very good point. I think BK and Shao hit it though that David wasn't pure in that regard. Infact, he is a horrible example of being sexually pure. So I'm thinking, I'm thinking... do we have any good examples of being pure in that regards... Biblically I mean? (I don't think Paul counts because he was willfully celibate and said that was a gift not everyone had).

SDG

[Nate]

That doesn't make any sense. If it's a sin no matter what, then the way of the heart doesn't matter more, the deeds of the hands do (because it doesn't matter what you intended to do, it's what you actually did). If the way of the heart DOES matter more, then how can it be a sin?

[bkilbour]

God wants to know which is more important to you - what He wants, or what you want.
Obeying God, or sleeping with that fiance.
Putting God first, or ignoring Him.
Obeying God, or doing whatever you want.

In that case, our heart can actually be judged by our actions - especially in our reactions to our sins. Are we happy we sinned, or are we repentant?

[Nate]

Then the deeds of the hands DO matter more than the way of the heart. If I love that girl and mean no harm to her by having sex with her, but want to do it to express my love, to show her I care, to be with her and devote myself to her, then that would mean it wasn't a sin if the way of the heart mattered more.

But since my action, independent of how my heart feels, is a sin, then that means my heart doesn't matter, it's only what I do.

You can't say one is more important than the other, actually. If the way of the heart mattered and the deeds of the hands didn't, then if I was walking down the street and saw someone choking on food and thought, "Man, I really want to help that person, I don't want them to die!" but just kept on walking, that would be considered a good deed because hey, my heart wanted to help! But since I did nothing, it is a sin. Because what we do is also dependent on what we think.

It's why shooting an enemy combatant in a war is not a sin, but shooting a random passerby on the street is. The act is exactly the same, but the difference is the heart behind it. In this way the heart matters more, but that doesn't mean deeds don't have their place as well, as I illustrated with the choking person.

[bkilbour]

that's not what I meant, and I think you're misunderstanding me.
To prevent further confusion, I'm getting out of this thread, dude. Not worth it.

[Yuki-Anne]

/thread, apparently

I think the point is, your heart and your deeds need to be in the right place. It's kind of pointless to separate them.

[Nami]

[quote="TGJesusfreak (post: 1461081)"]Well actually dude. That highly depends on your definition of courting. idk what yours is. But mine is Dating with the intent of something more (AKA Marraige) so I guess dating and courting in MY mind are a bit interchangible XD]


We need a 'like' button.

XD Liiiiikeee Buutttoon~

never mind that's a bad idea >> people would go nuts with that thing.

[Maledicte]

My question is, why is the word "purity" used nearly only in reference to sexual purity? At least the way Christians tend to use it. Can you imagine reading a sexual reference into anything that's "pure?"

"100% Pure sugar"
"Pure mountain spring water"
"Such a clear, pure voice"
"That was pure genius"
"Pure of heart"

Honestly, it makes the term "pure" sound dirty. Which it totally shouldn't sound like.

We should just say "virginal" and have done with it.

[c.t.,girl]

My question is, why does is the word "purity" used nearly only in reference to sexual purity? At least the way Christians tend to use it. Can you imagine reading a sexual reference into anything that's "pure?"

"100% Pure sugar"
"Pure mountain spring water"
"Such a clear, pure voice"
"That was pure genius"
"Pure of heart"

Honestly, it makes the term "pure" sound dirty. Which it totally shouldn't sound like.

We should just say "virginal" and have done with it.

i'm sorry but your word makes me feel even more awkward than sexual purity. maybe it's because i'm not mature in my brain to say all the anatomy parts of a man or a woman with a straight face. but srsly...all kinds of awkwards. *shudders*

BUT MAYBE IT'S JUST ME...AND MY IMMATURITY...

[Maledicte]

i'm sorry but your word makes me feel even more awkward than sexual purity.

But that's what the Christian community has done to the term "purity." Made it all about sex.

Particularly in regards to women. But that's a whole new can of worms entirely.

[c.t.,girl]

i've known it to also mean that one does NOTHING "evil" like be mean to others, do drugs, curse (even to ask one to stop cursing), be intimate with someone etc.etc.etc. another way would be to call the person a prude and that's from people who aren't christian.

sentence example: "Oh, her? She's pure...She'd never go with us to go skinny dipping/go smoke behind the school/play the shouting obscenities game/etc.etc.etc."

but i must say i don't really understand where you're going with this blaming christiany for "making" the word purity be about sexual purity...other cultures have also used the term "purity" for a virgin (can't think of any at the moment though...lol).

alls i'm saying is your suggested word makes me feel more awkward than the term "sexual purity" again mostly cuz it makes me think of female anatomy...and i've had to think/talk about female anatomy a lot lately since mine has been trying to kill me. lol

[Yuki-Anne]

I can think of a lot worse words to use talking about this sort of thing. I won't share any of them.

I think "sexual purity" refers to matters of the heart as well as the body. "Virginal" to me suggests merely virginity in the most literal sense of the word.

On a side note, I'm glad my sugar is 100% pure.

[c.t.,girl]

I can think of a lot worse words to use talking about this sort of thing. I won't share any of them.

I think "sexual purity" refers to matters of the heart as well as the body. "Virginal" to me suggests merely virginity in the most literal sense of the word.

On a side note, I'm glad my sugar is 100% pure.

yeah...i dunno...i think it's just me...because "virginal" weirds me out but "virginity" doesn't. XD;

again...my womanly parts were trying to kill me and i had to keep saying how to a bunch of doctors and family...i'll never be able to eat liver thanks to my womanly situation...if i ever liked liver in the first place...

[Okami]

This makes me have to go back to my first post in this thread, in saying that I am pursuing a life of complete purity. It's so much more than just sexual purity and abstaining from sex. It's also having a clean heart and mind (which, as I said, can become extremely difficult) it's learning how to trust in God, listen to the Spirit, and also be willing to go and be as He calls. It's loving others in all circumstances, being humbled and obedient to God through humility. It's taking up the cross in self-denial and following Him through both the bad times and the good times. And a lot more, but my mind is still attempting to wake up. xD;

[Maledicte]

but i must say i don't really understand where you're going with this blaming christiany for "making" the word purity be about sexual purity...other cultures have also used the term "purity" for a virgin (can't think of any at the moment though...lol).

What you say about other cultures is true, however, this is a Christian forum, therefore I'm talking about my experiences concerning the word from my experiences as a Christian and within Christian culture.

I agree with Okami - there's so much more to being a pure Christian than simply, say, abstaining from sex until marriage. Purity *should* be about the whole package, following and loving God with your body, mind, soul, and spirit. But in my experiences in certain churches and Christian schools, the only time purity was mentioned was in conjunction with sexual behavior.

Which brings us back to the opening post in a thread titled "Purity" - the first list is all about sexual or romantic acts that the poster will not do. The Bible doesn't restrict purity to sexual acts. So why do so many Christians apply that restriction?

[Nami]

Well, she may have just used that because it was the first thing that came to her head. She was referring to that in Purity. But I seriously doubt anyone was trying to label purity as only sexual purity. Because that's never the first thing I think of when I heard purity.

I think; pure of heart, mind and soul.

Never sex first. It does bother me that this is normally the first thing people think of, because it really shouldn't be.

Like I said, I doubt anyone was intentionally labeling "purity" as only sexual purity.

[shooraijin]

It does bother me that this is normally the first thing people think of, because it really shouldn't be.

You are about to be very disappointed in men.

[Nami]

[quote="shooraijin (post: 1461566)"]You are about to be very disappointed in men. ]

What do you mean about to be?

[Nate]

But I seriously doubt anyone was trying to label purity as only sexual purity.

And yet the opening poster, who titled the thread "Purity" made a list of things she was doing to keep herself "pure" and all of them were in regards to romance and sex. And I don't think anyone after her posted about much else besides that. Maybe no one is actively trying to limit the word "purity" to only sexual purity, but the point is that people here are using it to mean that. If you asked I'm sure they'd say "Oh well purity means other things too" (Okami in fact expanded on it a bit) but by and large all of them are just using "purity" to mean only in regards to romance/dating/sex.

It does bother me that this is normally the first thing people think of, because it really shouldn't be.

Well, blame the churches because I don't think I've ever heard any church refer to "purity" as anything but sexual. :p Again, especially for women, which is...eh I won't get into that. :\

[Okami]

(Okami in fact expanded on it a bit) but by and large all of them are just using "purity" to mean only in regards to romance/dating/sex.

The thing most people don't realize is that in the bigger picture, purity is a lifestyle. Sex within marriage is pure, same as abstinence within celibacy is pure. But it's so much more than just that, which is what I was trying to say earlier.

[Hansha]

Well, if it makes you feel better my church just did a whole series called Pure and it had nothing at all to do with sex. It was all about being pure from corrupt doctrine and worldliness.

[c.t.,girl]

whoa whoa whoa...alls i was saying in my first paragraph was that it's not just Christianity that views the word purity as a term for sexual purity...sure cultures may use their language's word but if they have to speak English? i do believe they would say pure somewhere in there. just sayin' it's not just Christianity. ANYWAY MY POST WASN'T ABOUT ALL THAT...IT'S JUST...LOL MAL...YOU MADE ME THINK OF MY BLEEDING TIMES. WASN'T FUN. XD; just was tryin' to get a laugh outta people...or gross them out as i was...>_> i'm horrible like that...

[Maledicte]

[quote="c.t.,girl (post: 1461613)"]whoa whoa whoa...alls i was saying in my first paragraph was that it's not just Christianity that views the word purity as a term for sexual purity...sure cultures may use their language's word but if they have to speak English? i do believe they would say pure somewhere in there. just sayin' it's not just Christianity. ANYWAY MY POST WASN'T ABOUT ALL THAT...IT'S JUST...LOL MAL...YOU MADE ME THINK OF MY BLEEDING TIMES. WASN'T FUN. XD]

I...I'm not sure I understand..... ^^;

[Yuki-Anne]

http://vimeo.com/12803273

[ShiroiHikari]

http://player.vimeo.com/video/12803273

That was AWESOME.

[Maledicte]

http://player.vimeo.com/video/12803273

Vimeo appears to be having issues.

EDIT: updated Java. working fine. Video is win, love the disclaimer at the end.

"Nothin' pure about THAT!"