Funimation Sues 1,337 BitTorrent Users Over One Piece

[rocklobster]

The irony is just hilarious.

[Rusty Claymore]

Well, I say it worked. Lots of people are now talking about Funi. Free advertising!! XD

[Nate]

"This company is a bunch of idiots for filing this suit" is hardly free advertising. While I guess you can technically say there's no such thing as bad publicity, the number of people I've heard say anything positive about Funimation have been very few. Most comments range from "Are they living in the 90s, didn't they remember the RIAA lawsuits?" to "Well I'm never buying from Funimation ever again" to "Now I'll download twice as much anime as before just to spite them."

I don't see how that qualifies as "free advertising."

[ShiroiHikari]

Most comments range from "Are they living in the 90s, didn't they remember the RIAA lawsuits?"

THEY ARE LIVIN'

LIVIN' IN THE NINETIES

In all seriousness, yeah, bad publicity is bad publicity.

[blkmage]

Yeah, in all seriousness, between this and lying about streaming to Canada, I'm considering just buying the (more expensive) Japanese version of the Summer Wars BD so I don't have any of my money going into Funimation's hands.

[Yamamaya]

Let's see here. Funi spends a ton of time and money trying to win over the interwebz crowd. They start to improve in the eyes of the interwebz crowd then they suddenly throw all that out of the window with this ludicrous law suit.

People will just start streaming it from somewhere else or directly downloading it, or use proxies when they download their torrents. Nothing will change. In fact, it's likely to encourage more pirating.

By trying to combat piracy they are shooting themselves in both feet.

[blkmage]

Much like the RIAA, at this point, there is nothing I would love more than for Funimation to die so that some distributors who aren't fuelled by a throne of Dragonball Z DVDs and hubris can take their place.

[Bobtheduck]

I'm glad they're only suing 1337 pirates. So regular, non 1337 pirates are off the hook.

I'm also glad I've never had an interest in One Piece. I'm also glad I just discovered that Crunchyroll anime streams work in Korea, though not their Drama streams. Off topic, I know, but it got me thinking about anime streaming sites.

[Psycho Molos]

I think this whole thread is l337 and I wanna be a pirate and...pirate it. lol

[Dante]

No, what's being subpoenaed are a list of IP addresses, which, as I've mentioned before, is not the same as a list of names. It is entirely possible that the individual corresponding to an IP address is not located in America, whether it's because the IP block doesn't actually geographically correspond correctly or if they're using a proxy through an IP address that somehow corresponds geographically to some American location for whatever reason.

How much legal teeth would they have in placing a lawsuit against someone in Canada or England from a US court of law (in Texas of all places )? I somehow doubt that these nations would extradite these citizens to Texas over Funimation throwing a fit. Unless they're really gaining something out of Funimation, that's just stabbing their own people in the back to subsidize a foreign company (losing money from their nation the whole way around).

[blkmage]

Funimation only has North American distribution rights, so that'd be the extent of their legal reach. If the Japanese producers wanted to take legal action (which they have the right to; whether or not it'd be a wise decision is a different matter) outside of North America (say, in Europe or Southeast Asia, both areas that have fanbases that rival North America's in size), then it'd be up to them to get the regional distributors to take action or to do it themselves. And of course, the viability of transnational litigation isn't clear.

[airichan623]

THEY ARE THE PIRATES!!!!

BWAWAHAHAHA!!!! lol. Sorry, Funimation, I support you a lot, but this has GOT to be the stupidest move I've seen from an American distributor since I've been a fan.
The only thing stupider would be all anime rights from Geneon going to 4Kids. (PFFT)

I feel sorry for those who downloaded it. Seriously, go after uploaders, not downloaders. xP But seriously, piracy and copyright laws made sense before, but now they just keep getting more and more stupid.

[kairo14]

This is so going in the wrong direction.

One reason people torrent is because its faster and most importantly is because its Quality is so much better than the legal streaming stuff. It would be smart if they would come out with their own high quality torrent (maybe with limited commercials) the same day the show airs. If they did they could make money and make the fans happy.

The consumer demand is suppose to drive the market. If the companies do not meet the demand someone else will. Its just that simple.

[Nate]

Actually that's not really the case. "Quality" was used as a reason for downloading the fansubs long ago, but I'm pretty sure most legal streaming sites offer quality that is equal to the fansubbed versions.

There are just people who are always going to torrent fansubs. You could have a legal streaming version of an anime subbed by the company, airing at exactly the same time as the show is being aired in Japan, in HD, and people would still torrent the fansubs. There are many reasons for this. One is that some people want absolutely no commercials. Fansubbers (usually) remove all commercials from the raw. Second, there are people who speak English but don't live in the United States. Ask blkmage about Funimation streaming in Canada, or ask Fish and Chips about Funimation streaming in South Korea. For some people, fansubs are literally the only way they would get to watch a show.

Finally, there is a sort of general feeling in the anime community that professional subs are inferior and poor quality to the fansubs. Or, the person just likes how the fansubbers do it better.

A good example of this is One Piece itself. A certain fansub group insisted on keeping the word "nakama" in their subs instead of translating it as "crewmate," "comrade," or "partner." This created a HUGE divide in the One Piece fanbase. I would almost guarantee that Funimation translates the word "nakama" instead of leaving it in Japanese, which would immediately cause many fans to say "This proves Funimation's subs suck so I'll never watch them."

And finally, in One Piece's case, it's a long freaking show. Unless I'm mistaken, Funimation hasn't gotten anywhere near these episodes in their releases of the series, and that means fans who like One Piece are stuck with episodes they've already watched ages ago because they kept up with fansubs before the series was licensed. It also puts them at increased risk of spoilers in the current episodes/chapters on discussion boards, because if Funimation is on episode 300 (just an example) of One Piece and episode 481 airs in Japan, people who live in Japan or download fansubs will go on boards and be like "Oh man guess what happened in 481 all this crazy stuff!" and the person following the North American releases will have that episode ruined for them.

Anyway, it's extremely naive to think that the company can do anything to cause 100% of the fansub downloaders to watch their legal stream instead. While admittedly, Funimation can be doing a lot more for their audience, there are people who will always pirate no matter what. Not a lot can be done about them, and litigation certainly isn't the correct answer.

[Rocketshipper]

Unless I'm mistaken, Funimation hasn't gotten anywhere near these episodes in their releases of the series, and that means fans who like One Piece are stuck with episodes they've already watched ages ago because they kept up with fansubs before the series was licensed.

In this one case you are. the One Piece simulcast is on episode 485, which aired January 30th. the DVDs are still far behind Japan, and it doesn't look like EVERY episode of the show is on-line (there are 95 pages of results for the sub episodes on Funi's site, with 3 results per page) but all the most rescent new episodes from Japan are up.

[blkmage]

A slow hilarious sad clap.

News: All But 1 Defendant Dropped From Funimation's One Piece Lawsuit (Updated)
posted on 2011-02-16 22:17 EST
1,336 anonymous defendants removed from suit, but can be pursued individually

[Nami]

This whole thread cracks me up. Funi was getting on my nerves... if they don't want people downloading, they should make it available for people. Maybe sell it on iTunes or something. Seriously, what a bunch of idiots.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

This whole thread cracks me up. Funi was getting on my nerves... if they don't want people downloading, they should make it available for people. Maybe sell it on iTunes or something. Seriously, what a bunch of idiots.

You know, it's funny you mention that...

[Fish and Chips]

Funimation can choose to pursue the other 1,336 defendants in individual, separate lawsuits within the next 30 days, if it submits filing fees for each case.

Ouch.

This whole thread cracks me up. Funi was getting on my nerves... if they don't want people downloading, they should make it available for people. Maybe sell it on iTunes or something. Seriously, what a bunch of idiots.

They've been streaming One Piece for sometime, actually. Recent episodes and everything, free; including the one in this lawsuit.

"Seriously, what a bunch of idiots."

[Yamamaya]

A slow hilarious sad clap.

Gonna have to dish out a lot of cash if you want to sue all dem pirates eh Funi?

So all funi's little quest will give them will be defeating on lil pirate in New Jersey provided they can actually win the case. *facepalm*

[blkmage]

I believe I mentioned it before, but this illustrates my point that these lawsuits are not a shoo-in for victoly on the side of the corporation. Further, it reinforces the fact that these lawsuits are nothing but a show of force, one which history has proven to backfire horribly. So now Funimation gains the ire of people and their show of force (look at how leet we are) flopped in a terribly embarrassing way. What exactly have they gained?

Note that I'm not disputing their right to legal action, which is entirely their right to pursue. What I am arguing is that this is not a wise use of resources and is definitely a poor strategic move. If they are serious about litigation, then they had better be prepared to pay the cost. Otherwise, they just look foolish.

[Nami]

@Fish: Thanks for letting me know ^_^ that makes me feel a little better about Funi~ Oh and you quoted me. ^^ too sweet arent' you?

[Midori]

Funimation made a leet suit but they were out of their leeg.

...okay that was incredibly dumb. Sorry.

[Cognitive Gear]

Interestingly, Funimation has apparently seen it's profits drop by over 50% since 2004, as can be read in this article.

One of its biggest gambles was the $100 million-plus purchase of a Funimation, a company that licenses and brands Japanese anime and children's animation. That hasn't worked so well. In 2004, the year before Navarre purchased the company, Funimation had net sales of $72 million and pre-tax income of $29.8 million. In the current fiscal year, which ends in March, Funimation is on track to do $35 million in revenue and, at best, $10 million in pretax income.

Navarre put Funimation up for sale last year, but no buyers appear to have emerged. At the same time, the company paid Funimation's CEO, Gen Fukunaga, a bonus of $213,536. If Funimation is sold, Fukunaga is also entitled to a "transaction success fee" of $250,000 or 5 percent of the sale price, whichever is larger.

Navarre's most recent annual report dropped much of the language about its being a media and entertainment company to emphasize its distribution and logistics business. Still, its book value per share has gone from $3.53 in March of 2006 to $1.67 as of March 31, 2010. Shareholders' equity has declined around 40 percent and the stock is down 75 percent since the Funimation purchase.

That's the relevant part of the article, the rest of it is business speak. Does this put the lawsuit in a different light at all, or is it entirely irrelevant?

[mechana2015]

Interestingly, Funimation has apparently seen it's profits drop by over 50% since 2004, as can be read in this article.


That's the relevant part of the article, the rest of it is business speak. Does this put the lawsuit in a different light at all, or is it entirely irrelevant?

If we could connect that to piracy it would definately be relevant. To do that we'd need piracy info for 2004- 2010 to compare if the rates have gone up to correspond with their drop in profits.

EDIT: We need comparative data of piracy of Funimation-licensed shows vs. Funimations profits for each show over those years.

[Nate]

Especially since, in another thread on here, blkmage has been talking about the unique problems of anime licensing in countries other than Japan, problems which have little to do with piracy. Problems such as a niche market, extra costs on top of licensing (English voice actors and translators and encoders), and reliance almost solely on DVD sales rather than the multitude of merchandise that Japan has. Not to mention that anime itself could be losing popularity in the US which would also account for lost profits. And let's not forget the Dot-com bubble bursting from 95-2000, an area which saw massive profits for a short period before falling apart, which had practically nothing to do with the actions of consumers.

So put simply, while it might be nice to blame piracy for all or even some of Funimation's financial woes, the situation is More Complicated Than That.

[blkmage]

Yeah, I was talking about pricing here (and we can continue to talk about industry stuff in that thread ლ(╹‿╹ლ) ).

But, in general, the global anime market has shrunk since 2004. It's generally accepted that 2004 was the peak year and there was sort of an anime bubble in the early 2000s that lead to the hilariously terrible pricing decisions that we're all familiar with. It can't solely be attributed to piracy because the Japanese market is suffering the same contraction, so it'd be insane to assume that there wouldn't be trouble on this side of the Pacific. I'll point to another post in that thread that has some interesting points from a distributor that isn't Funimation.

Finally, it's important to remember that just because companies are dying doesn't necessarily mean that it's over for the industry. We've got new players from the last year or two in NISA and Aniplex who are trying different things. Maybe they'll succeed or maybe they'll fail, but they're in a much better position to try new things and weather whatever difficulties are in the market right now than Funimation who seems to be too large to be responding to any drastic changes in a reasonable and timely fashion.

[Rocketshipper]

a friend on IM just sent me the link to this article. its pretty interesting.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/why-anime-fans-pirate-the-shows-they-love.ars

To be completely honest, the people in the article, and many of the comments too, just come off to me as being kind of self centered. Basicly, the attitude seems to be "its ok to illegally download fansubs because the official version doesn't properly live up to my standards." They do make a point about how fansubs often including cultural notes and stuff, but I've seen just as many fansubs (and the outright bootleg translations mixed in with them) with HORRIBLE quality translations and grammar and everything. And there's that tendancy for fansubbers to add swearing to the subtitles that really isn't there to begin with. And the official licenced groups are never going to be able to please *everybody*. No matter how stellar a subtitle script a company turns out, there are bound to be those people who are all "its not good enough. there's aren't enough honorifics! They didn' word the main character's catch phrase the way I wanted them too! etc. etc." So just because the official version doesn;t match your perfect vision of how the show should be presented, it makes it ok to pirate??

And all the complaining about stuff taking "too much time" just gets on my nerves. It takes time *for a reason*, going through the process of dubbing a show, and making the DVDs, and etc. etc. is not something that just happens overnight. Getting a japanese anime DVD over here takes a lot of hard work from the people in these distribution companies, and to be all "you aren't going fast enough for me, so I'm just going to download it" is really annoying. Maybe if you download it just to watch it once until the real thing comes out, but downloading it just because we're too ADD to wait for the legal alternative that we *know* is coming is too much ><.

(also, "LOL" at the guy praising Crunchyroll's "fansub" translations. From what I've seen, they have all the same problems that the comments people are complaining about. The Naruto streams rarely even subtitle the op/ed themes)

[Nate]

It takes time *for a reason*, going through the process of dubbing a show, and making the DVDs, and etc. etc. is not something that just happens overnight.

And they'd say that's why they pirate. They don't care about dubbing, in fact, most people who pirate hate dubs with a passion. To them, your statement about "It has to be dubbed" proves that anime companies are ignorant and incompetent and they should be punished for it. Not to mention that with digital distribution and stuff like Hulu and iTunes, physical media isn't as important anymore. I'm not sure what effect iTunes and other legal streaming/download music services have had on CD sales, for example, but I'd be willing to bet CDs don't sell as well these days because of all the legal digital methods of obtaining music (not to mention the pirating of music).

[Rocketshipper]

Its not just about dubbing though. It still takes time just to do a sub, and create a DVD and market it and everything. And they're still doing dubs because they obviously (incorrectly?) percieve dubs as something that the fans still want, and it helps them reach a larger audience. I'm sure there are a lot of fans who would complain if they totaly stopped doing dubs, just as there are who wouldn't care. once again its back to the "you can't please everyone" thing.

To them, your statement about "It has to be dubbed" proves that anime companies are ignorant and incompetent and they should be punished for it.

I'm not sure I really get it. How does making a dub mean they're incompetent? creating a dub isn;t mutually exclusive with creating a sub for the hardcore fans to enjoy too. It hasn;t been for a VERY long time now.