Reformed? Just curious...

[Shao Feng-Li]

I know there's at least one other... And with over 10,000 members, there's gotta be more-

How many folks here consider themselves reformed? Reformed Presbyterian, reformed Baptist, Calvinist, Steelite, etc? I myself am Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian.

[Cognitive Gear]

I hadn't ever heard of this, so I took some time to look it up.

For anyone in the same situation, wikipedia redirects to Calvinism.

To answer the question (since I am already posting): No, I do not consider myself to be reformed.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I know what the word Reformed normally refers to, but I have no/little understanding as to what it means denomination-wise. I'm Lutheran, but first a foremost a bible-believing Christian.
I've never heard of these:

Steelite
Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian

What are they?

I hadn't even heard of Four Square until several years ago (online).

[Syreth]

I'm selectively Reformed. Honestly I don't really find many systems of theology to be completely satisfying, and it's rare for me to find a school of thought that doesn't leave me with questions. So, I don't really hold any but my core Christian beliefs too dearly.

[ChristianKitsune]

I am a Christian.
I don't put titles like that on my relationship with Jesus ^^;

(not to spark a debate or anything, i don't think there is anything wrong with titles like that...)

[Radical Dreamer]

[quote="ChristianKitsune (post: 1427999)"]I am a Christian.
I don't put titles like that on my relationship with Jesus ^^]

[KhakiBlueSocks]

[quote="ChristianKitsune (post: 1427999)"]I am a Christian.
I don't put titles like that on my relationship with Jesus ^^]

Quoted for Truth:

Titles don't matter--just the fact that you have the relationship. In my eyes, that's a big problem with people nowadays; (and I am not trying to bash or bring down anyone here, this is just my two cents) we put too much emphasis and focus on what we call ourselves than the actual relationship with God, which is always gonna trump any title man may place.

[mechana2015]

I know what the word Reformed normally refers to, but I have no/little understanding as to what it means denomination-wise. I'm Lutheran, but first a foremost a bible-believing Christian.
I've never heard of these:

Steelite
Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian

What are they?

I hadn't even heard of Four Square until several years ago (online).

I think these are all denominations only in the United States...

[goldenspines]

I am mostly familiar with the term "reformed" in relation to movements such as The Protestant Reformation. This movement was aptly named since the people involved felt like they were reforming Christianity during the time.

Nowadays, "reformed" churches can mean a lot of things, depending where you go and who you talk to. I kind of see them like I see every other denomination in Christianity; we all believe in the same God, but we disagree on a lot of the details.


And, I agree with CK.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Huh, I'm kinda surprised at how many people have no idea what it is.

W4J, a lot of people kinda of consider Luther to be one of the catalysts of the Reformation.

David Steele was a Scottish minister and the people in his church were called Steelites, but I don't know much about him.

Covenanted has to do with descending obligations. God's promises and and man's. We uphold the Solemn League and Covenant. That was when Great Britain and its offspring (such as the U.S.) to be Christian nations.

Believe me, I long for the day when denominations disappear and we just call ourselves Christians.

[Mr. Rogers]

Martin Luther was the one who normally gets credit for the Reformation, but the seeds of the Reformation go back a couple hundred years before his life.

I do not necessarily consider myself to be of a single denomination or theological position. I'm not sure if God is that easy. There is a great book by Brian McLaren called "Generous Orthodoxy" that I would recommend everyone read. He does a great job at giving an overview of Christianity in all it's major developments and why he considers himself to be a part of each one of them. I would generally go along with this position. I'll call myself, "Generous".

I have been to Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Pentecostal, Assemblies of God, Taize services, and various house churches.

I have heard that many Christians in America (maybe other places) are, more and more, considering themselves to be what could be called "post-denominational". Denominational ties are not as strong as they used to be and people just want something friendly and with substance.

[Shao Feng-Li]

We do trend to gather with people that think the same things as us. I suppose in that regard denominations won't be going out of style for a long long time.

Heh, I was wondering if maybe you were Presbyterian since you have the Mr. Rogers theme going on.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Shao, yes, I know Martin Luther was one of the fathers of reforming Christianity and helping to return it to it's biblical roots. That's interesting, about David Steele. What is the Solemn League? Also, is the Covenant, the same as the New Covenant we all have in Christ, or is it different? I haven't heard of some of these because I live in Australia. I'm surprised how many denominations there are. Thanks

[Shao Feng-Li]

Wikipedia has a simple little article about the Solemn League: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn_League_and_Covenant There's a whole lot more too it than that though.

[ich1990]

I am a (partially) reformed sinner, so, yeah, I guess I am.

[ChristianKitsune]

I guess, mostly I just got tired of all the "Baptists are better, no! Methodists are better! NO! NAZARENES ARE BETTER!" crud that goes on with denominations.

We are all apart of the same body, but we all have different purposes if we are constantly fighting and bickering about denominations, and who is serving God the best, I think that comes into a pride issue.

After all, we are all sinners who have been set free, we all needed it so none of us is "better" than the other...

I'd rather love my fellow Christians, no strings attached. So what if you go to a different denomination than I do. Do you love Jesus and believe in what he did for us? Do you believe in what the Bible says?

If so, then there is no reason for these sections that we put ourselves in. There is no reason for these petty arguments that really don't matter.

I mean, if Christians can't love each other, how are we going to love the world? ._.;

[Syreth]

After all, we are all sinners who have been set free, we all needed it so none of us is "better" than the other...

Couldn't agree more. Thanks for sharing those sentiments with us. Having a spirit of unity is so important, yet so rare.

[Nate]

So what if you go to a different denomination than I do. Do you love Jesus and believe in what he did for us? Do you believe in what the Bible says?

If so, then there is no reason for these sections that we put ourselves in. There is no reason for these petty arguments that really don't matter.

The major problem is for most people, it does matter. It does matter what different denominations say.

For example, some churches think it is wrong to play music at worship services (it has to do with something about if it isn't mentioned in the NT it isn't allowed, so despite all the verses saying "Play instruments/songs!" in the OT, they never say music was played at services in the NT).

It may seem like a silly belief to us, but to them, it's near and dear to their hearts. It may seem like a trivial thing but to them, it's massively important. You might say "We're Christians and we should love each other!" and their response would be "Then take the music out of your worship services because otherwise you're doing wrong in God's eyes." You might think you're not doing wrong, but they do.

This is the problem. Everyone interprets verses differently. While some of them may be trivial things that we can say "Well, I disagree, but that's okay" a lot of them are things that cause deep divisions because they ARE important to those members. This is the reason denominations exist, because someone says "These guys are sinning by doing x, I'll start a new denomination where x isn't allowed."

Because while we all agree the only thing that REALLY matters is accepting Christ, the problem comes in when you add in other stuff too (I won't get into it so that theological debate can be completely avoided; I feel like I ruin enough threads as it is without providing catalysts).

[Whitefang]

You know the joke that no two people can agree on which toppings to put on a pizza? Well, Christianity is sort of like that.

Let me post an interesting article related to this topic...
Two Billion Doctrines by Graham Pockett ***First warning, Amazing Grace plays on the homepage, so if your volume is high be prepared if you navigate there. Second warning, this is one man's writings on faith and religion, so remember that his opinions are his own, I just thought it might be helpful to share. I think he brings up some good points, and if you delve further in his writings you'll see he does have his own set of beliefs.

As to the topic, I believe in one catholic (unified) Church, consisting of all believers. As for my religious practices, I consider myself Protestant, but not Reformed. I would go into why, but that's Theological debate territory, so I won't.

Edit: Well, actually, I can partly explain it because my ancestors are mostly English and I am living in the USA, so it isn't exactly a surprise, but I have put thought to the question without blindly accepting it.

[ShiroiHikari]

<redacted. I didn't word this very well. Let's just say I agree with Nate.>

[TheSubtleDoctor]

Nate = spot on. I will add one thing, though I am really just applying what Nate said to a specific area.

Certainly, each denomination of Christendom claims that accepting Christ is of utmost importance. But what exactly that acceptance consists in, the mechanics of it, what it actually looks like, etc. are quite different depending on which denomination you belong to (see Nate's point about scriptural interpretation). Ergo, since even this fundamental matter (accepting Christ is the most important/only important thing) can become a point of contention, it is difficult to see everyone just sort of shirking off their denominational affiliations.

Also, Whitefang alluded to this, but often one's denomination can be bound up with one's cultural identity, so there's that to consider.

And to answer the original question: no.

[Sheenar]

I just call myself a Christian --a follower of Christ. I attend a Baptist church, but don't consider myself Baptist --just too many labels a person can go by --I like to keep it simple and down to fundamentals.

"In the fundamentals:unity, in everything else: love" --this is my philosophy. What really matters is the core of Christianity --faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for salvation. In everything else, people may disagree, but we can extend grace and love to one another --and not hate because others believe differently than we do about issues outside the core --baptism, communion, church services, etc.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I like to keep it simple and down to fundamentals.

"In the fundamentals:unity..."

What are those exactly? And who decides what's fundamental?

I am not picking on you personally, Sheenar; these are questions to everyone about your general point...unless the mods feel that they are debate bait.

[Sheenar]

What really matters is the core of Christianity --faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for salvation. .

This, in my opinion.

[Radical Dreamer]

The major problem is for most people, it does matter. It does matter what different denominations say.

For example, some churches think it is wrong to play music at worship services (it has to do with something about if it isn't mentioned in the NT it isn't allowed, so despite all the verses saying "Play instruments/songs!" in the OT, they never say music was played at services in the NT).

It may seem like a silly belief to us, but to them, it's near and dear to their hearts. It may seem like a trivial thing but to them, it's massively important. You might say "We're Christians and we should love each other!" and their response would be "Then take the music out of your worship services because otherwise you're doing wrong in God's eyes." You might think you're not doing wrong, but they do.

This is the problem. Everyone interprets verses differently. While some of them may be trivial things that we can say "Well, I disagree, but that's okay" a lot of them are things that cause deep divisions because they ARE important to those members. This is the reason denominations exist, because someone says "These guys are sinning by doing x, I'll start a new denomination where x isn't allowed."

I don't know that I agree with this. I guess my main question is, why is a certain denominational belief near and dear to someone's heart? Is it because it's how they were raised, or is it because it's actually scriptural? I know that a lot of people say that there is no right way to interpret Scripture, but I think that there is. Or at the very least, some ways are more valid than others. For instance, some denominations base certain beliefs on verses taken out of their original context. Is it right for them to take that belief and call it an essential of the faith when it's really only Scripture twisted around to say what they want it to say? I don't think that it is.

I think that, when looking at Scripture, it's possible to come to a common belief about many aspects of our faith, and even though there still may be some differences of opinion, there might be a lot less if you rule out all of the traditions and practices that people base on Scriptures that they simply aren't reading properly.

I guess my main point is this: regardless of denomination, race, or personal preference, we're all worshipping the same God, and as the body of Christ, we should be more unified. I would have less of a problem with denominations if all they were was people of different personal preferences coming together to worship Jesus in the way they prefer, but instead, it typically tends to turn into a bunch of people fighting over things that are non-essential to our faith, and it's not how the Church should be treating one another.

Anyways, I have class, so I'll have to cut this short here, but I may come back and expound later. XD

[Nate]

I guess my main question is, why is a certain denominational belief near and dear to someone's heart? Is it because it's how they were raised, or is it because it's actually scriptural?

Agreed. The same could be said of any belief in Christianity though. Remember, there are religions that believe Jesus existed, but that he was not the son of God. In fact, Thomas Jefferson accused Christians of putting words in Jesus' mouth that he claims were never spoken. So to a person like him, Christ's divinity is not scriptural. To him, we only believe it because of how we were raised, and it's not actually scriptural.

But obviously, we think Christ's divinity is all over the Bible and it'd be silly to say He never claimed to be divine. Again, these are the types of things that create denominations.

I know that a lot of people say that there is no right way to interpret Scripture, but I think that there is. Or at the very least, some ways are more valid than others.

I hate to sound like Ryan...but...it can't be helped. There is definitely a right way to interpret scripture. But how will we know it's the right way? Everyone feels their interpretation is correct. There can be only one correct interpretation, but we can't ever know what it is. If the Bible is truly God's word, only God knows what He meant by the words, and to try and claim we definitively know is, I think, kinda arrogant. We can say "Well God PROBABLY meant this" but that's just our subjective interpretation.

For instance, some denominations base certain beliefs on verses taken out of their original context. Is it right for them to take that belief and call it an essential of the faith when it's really only Scripture twisted around to say what they want it to say? I don't think that it is.

I agree that taking verses out of context is wrong, but again, it's subjective to say what exactly "taking out of context" is. I believe there are a few verses that are taken out of context...not out of the context of the Bible, but out of the context of the original language, out of the context of the society and culture of the time. But to most people, the verse is very clear as to what it says, whereas I say "Y'know, I don't think that's really true because of the original Greek and the way it's written in reference to the time period." I feel that's "out of context" but a lot of people don't.

So even saying that, it still doesn't solve things.

there might be a lot less if you rule out all of the traditions and practices that people base on Scriptures that they simply aren't reading properly.

But to them, it isn't a tradition or practice, it's a necessary absolute thing. I hope this doesn't cause theological debate (feel free to remove this if you feel it's over the line), but a good example is baptism.

Some denominations believe even if you accept Christ, live a life pleasing to God, and are a great Christian, it's all pointless and you're still going to Hell if you were never baptized. To these people, it isn't a "tradition" or a "practice" it's a very real, very necessary thing that is NEEDED to be saved. You and I probably disagree with these people, but to them, it's absolutely imperative that a person be baptized.

And there's even those that say it needs to be a full immersion, not just a sprinkling on the head. You can say they're not reading the Bible properly, but they'll just shoot it back and say YOU'RE not reading the Bible properly. You can present your verses and interpretation as to why they're wrong, and they'll present their verses and interpretation as to why you're wrong.

I would have less of a problem with denominations if all they were was people of different personal preferences coming together to worship Jesus in the way they prefer

But to most of them it isn't a preference. It's an important aspect of Christianity that is vital to a person being saved. To keep the example going, to them you are damning people to Hell by not forcing them to be baptized regardless of if they kneel down at an altar call. To them, your "preference" is a tool of the devil.

This is why denominations can't get along. It's not non-essential stuff, every denomination sees their doctrine as the real way to God. You may say baptism is non-essential, but these other people say it is ABSOLUTELY essential.

So again, this is why it's nice to think "We should all be unified!" but when you get down to it, is a Protestant going to accept that Catholics think you have to defer to the Pope on matters of moral authority and have to go to confession? Is a Baptist going to accept that a gay person can be a bishop at an Episcopalian church? Is a Lutheran going to accept a Pentecostal's belief that you have to speak in tongues to be saved? Is any mainstream Christian denomination going to accept a Mormon's belief that Joseph Smith was a prophet?

These may seem "non-essential" to you but to every denomination, their beliefs are essential and necessary and of vital importance. And since we're not ever going to 100% agree on what the Bible says, this is why there will always be denominations and we will never be completely unified. Because each of us thinks the others are making God mad or losing salvation by not following their interpretation.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I only wanted to know if anyone believed the same things as me here... XD

[Mr. Rogers]

"If you say that any one part of the truth is unimportant, you do as good as say - to that extent the Holy Spirit has come upon an unimportant or valueless mission. You perceive it is declared that he is to teach us "all things"; but if some of these "all things" are really of such minor importance, and so quite non-essential, then surely it is not worth while disturbing our minds with them. And so to that degree, at any rate, we accuse the Holy Spirit of having come to do what is not necessary to be done; and I trust that our minds recoil with holy repulsion from such a half-blasphemy as that.." - Charles Spurgeon

Then again, Paul seems to suggest in some of his epistles that not all things are essential (holidays, food regulations, etc.)

[Htom Sirveaux]

I'm a Reformed Anamethabaptacostaterianite. "Saved," for short.
I don't think God cares about denominations. For the sake of a joke when people ask what denomination I am, I simply picked a few that I've either had experience with or know and like a few things about, and smooshed them together. For example, "-ite"=Mennonite. Why? Because I love their food.

Perhaps mister Washington Phillips can say it better than me . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOX9-kcv7g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLx1uf2QzSg

[mechana2015]

I only wanted to know if anyone believed the same things as me here... XD

This is sort of what always happens when denominations are brought up...especially the american denominations.