The legend of zelda - The Skyward Sword

[Cloud500]

Now that you mention it, I can't remember any of the TP music either.

[Nate]

Man, I haven't ever heard a Zelda soundtrack I hated.

I didn't say I hated it. I'd have to actually REMEMBER it to hate it. The very fact that I can only remember two songs out of the entirety of TP's soundtrack is a pretty big hint that the music wasn't good, otherwise it would've been more memorable.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Hehe. To each their own I suppose. It effected in me the same reaction I've gotten from most every other Zelda I've played - joy. I think I'm just the sack they aim these games at.

[Whitefang]

Wow, the music in TP really did suck now that I think about it. OH WAIT. The Hidden Village music. I remember that one. It was awesome. The music still sucked aside from that one track though.

The Lake Hylia music is very enjoyable to me.

[Jingo Jaden]

It 'won' the GT most disappointing game at E3 award. Quoting several times that they think it won't be bad, but that it does not look all that great.

Personally, I am more or less weighting both sides. I don't like that they have mixed all the styles together, but I don't think they will focus as much on darkness as they did in TP which comes with both good and bad traits on my side. I fear that it may get too simplistic in terms of both aesthetics and background. I do however not mind good sword controls which would require arm movement. It does not bother me all that much and could be enjoyable even depending on how good the mechanics are. I do expect them to be quite impressive.

[ich1990]

Now that you mention it, I can't remember any of the TP music either.

Oh come on, not even Midna's Lament?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUXhSvvxmN0

[the_wolfs_howl]

Aren't you the one who hated Link's Awakening in which exactly that happened? :p

._. Explain. Please reveal my density to me. I felt very little of that fairy tale quality from that game. Maybe it was Link starting out on a ship when we don't even know where he's going. Maybe it was the lack of Zelda anywhere but the title. Maybe it was just the idea of a fish in the sky Whatever it was, it felt like a really quonky game that wasn't so much a bad game as just...kind of pointless. And I don't want Skyward Sword to feel like that.

[Nate]

You said Zelda is supposed to be a fairy tale come to life.

In Link's Awakening, the whole game revolves around the fairy tale of the Wind Fish. At the end of the game, the Wind Fish comes to life. Thus, Link's Awakening is the exact perfect example of a fairy tale coming to life, yet you dislike it for reasons that completely baffle me.

[KougaHane]

Now that you mention it, I can't remember any of the TP music either.

I always thought the music in the twilight realm was awesome in a weird sort of way. It was stuck in my head for about a month after I first played TP

[the_wolfs_howl]

You said Zelda is supposed to be a fairy tale come to life.

In Link's Awakening, the whole game revolves around the fairy tale of the Wind Fish. At the end of the game, the Wind Fish comes to life. Thus, Link's Awakening is the exact perfect example of a fairy tale coming to life, yet you dislike it for reasons that completely baffle me.

Okay, then. Fairy tales coming to life in a way that leads to growth or progression of some sort (All the best fairy tales are like that.) You feel like Link is a different person at the end of Ocarina of Time than he was in the beginning, or that the state of the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess is permanently altered because of the story. Link's Awakening felt like a pointless side story that had Link begin and end exactly the same. All that changed was that [spoiler]the island disappeared.[/spoiler]

Just...let me not like this game, okay?

[Nate]

Okay, then. Fairy tales coming to life in a way that leads to growth or progression of some sort

But then every Zelda game is immediately disqualified.

You feel like Link is a different person at the end of Ocarina of Time than he was in the beginning

No I don't. He was exactly the same. In fact that's kind of exactly the ending of OoT was that Zelda says "Oh you missed out on your childhood so I'll send you back in time to give you back the time you lost" and so Link goes back to being a kid which is exactly how he started!

Plus, you can't have character development with a silent character. He's more an archetype. His whole point is he doesn't ever grow or develop, because he is already the ideal hero. He completely embodies Courage in its entirety, he has no NEED to grow or develop because he is already perfect...if he wasn't, the Triforce wouldn't have chosen him to represent Courage. Just as how Zelda perfectly embodies wisdom, and Ganon perfectly embodies power. None of them have character development, because they need none. The only one who's even remotely had anything close to character development is Ganondorf, and even that was mostly a throwaway conversation in Wind Waker (the one about the winds of the desert being harsh and bringing death, but Hyrule's winds being cool and bringing life, and he coveted those winds).

or that the state of the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess is permanently altered because of the story.

I agree with that, although that's completely Midna's character development, Link still had zero.

Link's Awakening felt like a pointless side story that had Link begin and end exactly the same.

Wow I've never seen anyone play a game and never pay any attention to it. You never talked to any NPCs? Never talked to any of the Owl Statues? Never read the inscription at the Southern Shrine? Never did any side quests? Never did ANYTHING except go to a dungeon and beat the boss and say "Where's the next dungeon?"

Now I think I understand why you hate Link's Awakening. If you ignore the entire story, then yeah, it wouldn't be a very satisfying game.

Just...let me not like this game, okay?

Never. I have a personal involvement in the game that requires me to argue with all who do not see its greatness.

Nah just kidding but it's a fantastic game and you seriously missed the point of it. :p Just like the Majora's Mask haters.

Link's Awakening was the very first Zelda game to do something different with the story. Zelda II was obviously the first one to do something different with the gameplay, but the story was more or less identical to the first: collect things, save Zelda. The same is even true of my favorite Zelda game, Link to the Past: collect things, save Zelda.

LA took that out, making it interesting by not having the story be "Oh look, Ganon kidnapped Zelda AGAIN. Go save her!" I love Mario games but Princess Peach getting kidnapped by Bowser has gone beyond a cliche. Fortunately, Mario games have never really been focused on story. LA was, though, with turning the island into a mystery. Why does Marin look so much like Zelda? Who is the Wind Fish? What are the Nightmares? Coupled with the moral dilemma Link has upon finding out the truth, and making the player wonder: who is really the bad guy in this game?

Link's Awakening focused on characters. It focused on being heartwarming and heartrending. If all you care about is "RRRRRR GANON BAD MUST BEAT BAD GUY" then you won't like Link's Awakening, any more than someone who enjoys love stories is going to like Doom. You have to be a person who likes character development, touching, poignant moments, and a sense of mystery. If all you wanna do is beat up Ganon and whatnot, then the game will obviously be disappointing. But Link's Awakening did a fantastic job of making interesting characters. Tarin was fun and funny, Marin was done very well and is as far as I can tell the only romantic relationship put forth in a Zelda game, and the ghost who you had to take back to his old home. Plus, it had an interesting moral lesson in it, as this is the only game where Link can steal something from the shop...but would pay for it in the end.

Further, Link's Awakening was the first and one of the only Zelda games to have a lighter side to it. It was funny! There were jokes, and a lot of good puns and lines. Really, the handheld Zelda games (LA, the Oracle titles, and Minish Cap) seem to embrace a bit of humor and fun in addition to being serious...something the console games have never been able to do. Well okay, Majora's Mask came SOMEWHAT close, but not close enough.

Wow, this is a long post! So I will close with the timeless words of Cukeman from the Oracle games.

"Feel my cold, steely gaze!!!"

[the_wolfs_howl]

Plus, you can't have character development with a silent character. He's more an archetype.

Hmm. Okay, let me start over and restate my point, because you've made me think a lot more deeply on this. I agree now that you can't really argue for character growth with a character like that, because of the lack of evidence in the form of him actually saying anything or doing anything more than Generic Surprised Face. But you have to apply that to every one of the games, because Link is the same in each one. Any character growth or change or whatever that you perceive is really subjective with such a small amount to back it up. So I can tell you till I'm blue in the face how in OoT Link started out as a naive kid who thought the biggest problems in the world were being picked on by Mido and being ostracized for his lack of a fairy, and how he changed through the responsibilities thrust upon him over the course of his adventures, and how even though he was returned to his childhood, he'll never forget and never be the same...but in the end there's no way I could convince anyone because that's just my interpretation, based on the events in the game, my experiences while playing, and my own imagination.

But think for a moment about all of those legends and fairy tales you've heard so many times you're sick of them. In a few the character changes, but in most the characters stay basically the same, while their surroundings change. Their situations change. Think of Cinderella]really[/i] change anything for Hyrule or anybody. Or, I guess you can say it changed stuff for all the people on the island, but do they really count? [spoiler]They don't really exist, do they? Or even if they did (and here you get into all this subjective stuff that makes my mind go around in circles, about whether dreams and imagination are real or not), nothing they did and nothing that happened ever affects anything else in Hyrule, so it doesn't matter.[/spoiler]

Wow I've never seen anyone play a game and never pay any attention to it. etc etc etc...

<_< Okay, so I must just be stupid or something, because I never got the half of what you were saying. Yes, I did sidequests and talked to people and all that. So either ten years old is too young of an age to play Link's Awakening (which would seem odd to me, judging by the rating), I forgot half the game by the time I reached the ending, or I'm just plain stupid. Because I didn't see any of the moral dilemma you're talking about. Nor did it ever enter my mind that Marin looked like Zelda. I went sort of, "Lol, Marin and Tarin - that's like Malon and Talon!" but that was it. I can't see any resemblance, though that might just be the tiny pixels and my eyes. And is the question of what the Wind Fish is ever really answered? I got the feeling in the final cutscene with Link out in the water that I was supposed to understand what was going on and why the heck Link was smiling like a dork. But I didn't.

So...I'm sorry if I've been stomping all over your favorite game of all time, but I honestly can't see half of what you do in it. One thing I'll say is that the music was gorgeous. Seriously, I would just go to that rooster statue thingy and sit there forever to listen to Marin sing the Ballad of the Wind Fish. I'm also partial to the music in the woods and Tal Tal Heights.

[Nate]

that's just my interpretation, based on the events in the game, my experiences while playing, and my own imagination.

If I remember correctly (and this may be rumor or made up) the reason Link's name is Link is because it's a pun, he is the player's "link" to the game world and is meant to represent them.

My Link copped a 'tude with Mido and didn't take his crap and tried to murder him in cold blood when he was all "I'M NOT LETTING YOU SEE THE GREAT DEKU TREE." But the game just made my sword go through him. :l

Hyrule never really reverts to the way it was. No, not even in OoT, because obviously Ganondorf isn't there anymore, and Navi and Link aren't where they used to be either. Things have changed.

But...that's the point of Zelda sending Link back seven years to give him back his lost childhood. XD Though I guess things aren't EXACTLY the same but it's close enough for me. It's kind of like that episode of Simpsons, where Homer keeps going through time, and changing things, and the world keeps getting radically different. Then he comes back one last time and everything seems exactly the same, and he thinks he's at home, and he sits down for breakfast and sees his family using long lizard-like tongues to eat their food. He sits there for a second before shrugging and going "Eh, close enough."

My problem is that the island in Link's Awakening doesn't really change anything for Hyrule or anybody.

It changes things for Link. He has to decide whether or not it's worth it to "kill" Marin and everyone on the island to find out the truth. It's actually the most morally ambiguous thing any Link has ever done in any Zelda game. Usually Link is portrayed as the upstanding righteous guy who's heroic, and this was the only Zelda game to have Link basically destroy an entire civilization just to get answers to his questions.

Oh yeah and you can have Link shoplift, which results in him being called "THIEF" until the end of the game. I don't think any other Zelda game has ever let you break the law.

[spoiler]They don't really exist, do they?[/spoiler]

If you manage to beat Link's Awakening with 0 deaths, on the "The End" screen
[SPOILER]In the original, you see Marin fly by with wings on her back. In the DX version, you see Marin's image, which fades and is replaced by a seagull. These are basically implying that she had her wish to be a seagull granted, and thus, she was real.[/SPOILER]

Because I didn't see any of the moral dilemma you're talking about.

"This island is going to disappear... our world is going to disappear...our world...our...world..."

The final boss says that, I think.

Anyway here's a guy that sums up Link's Awakening better than I could:

http://www.gemakei.com/features.php?articleId=657&page=1 "Why Link's Awakening might just have the greatest video game storyline of all time."

Nor did it ever enter my mind that Marin looked like Zelda.

This is, admittedly, a bit of a fault of the sprites. However, in the instruction booklet and in the official art, Marin does look like Zelda.

http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/8/83/Marin.jpg

This was conveyed in the game right after Link wakes up at the very beginning. Marin mentions he was tossing and turning as if he was having a nightmare. Then she says "What? Zelda? No, my name's Marin! You must still be feeling a little woozy."

And is the question of what the Wind Fish is ever really answered?

The Wind Fish is just a deity of sorts (though obviously not as strong as the goddesses of Hyrule). There are theories, however, that the Wind Fish is the Ocean King from Phantom Hourglass. The Ocean King's true form is that of a great whale/fish, and it seems to have the power to pull others into its dreams, as implied by the ending of the game. But it's just a fan-theory, no official evidence to support it has been given.

I got the feeling in the final cutscene with Link out in the water that I was supposed to understand what was going on and why the heck Link was smiling like a dork. But I didn't.

Link woke up from being pulled into the Wind Fish's dream, and he realized that it had actually happened, he hadn't dreamed it, because he looked up and saw the Wind Fish.

One thing I'll say is that the music was gorgeous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGKcrRodD4

Hey buddy! It's serious!
Yeah, really serious!!
Yeah, it is! The Moblins came to the village!
Yeah, that's right! A whole gang of Moblins!
Then... It's for real! They all went to the house...
Yeah, that house, and then they did something at Bow Wow's house!!
It was a really bad scene, with the M-m-moblins! So, I mean, ohh!
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
It might be faster to find out for yourself what happened!

The Face Shrine and Southern Shrine had great music too. And the Wind Fish's Egg had some fantastic music, but most people probably only hear the first ten seconds of it, despite the fact that it's over a minute long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSbvyCCIyIA

EDIT: Oh yeah how could I forget? Link's Awakening has what is probably the best overworld music in the Zelda games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxxKG2BYwNY

Which of course had a sweet Brawl remix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UDGmQ7VCoQ

On that note, I never understood why the Brawl version was called "Tal Tal Heights" when it's clearly mostly a remix of the overworld theme. It DOES have the Tal Tal Heights music in there...like ten seconds of it. I guess it was to differentiate it from the five OTHER versions of the Zelda overworld music they had in that game.

[the_wolfs_howl]

My Link copped a 'tude with Mido and didn't take his crap and tried to murder him in cold blood when he was all "I'M NOT LETTING YOU SEE THE GREAT DEKU TREE." But the game just made my sword go through him. :l

That sounds like you.

Hmmmmm...summing up all my thoughts from our discussion on Link's Awakening.... I've become convinced that I was too young to play the game, and I probably took too long to do so (forgetting a lot of things the bosses said in between them). Possibly if I picked it up for the first time now, or a few years ago, I would catch onto these things and appreciate it more. That guy's article on the game reminded me of ICO - how subtle and deep it is, though you don't even notice unless you pay attention. Also, how it makes a much bigger point by having a single, linear ending rather than giving a choice to the player.

I'm kind of frustrated with myself, because you can never take back your first impression of something (well, with a lot of effort you can change it, but you can never forget what you first thought), so I will never be able to like Link's Awakening as much as some of the other Zelda games. Something still feels off to me about the ending - if it was a real moral dilemma, I feel like Link shouldn't be looking quite so carefree, even if he does see Marin as a seagull.

You can pat yourself on the back, Nate. I still feel like Link's Awakening wasn't as strong of a game as some of the others, but now I appreciate it more for what they were trying to do with it. I wouldn't mind seeing a Zelda game that mingled the best from LA and OoT ]not[/i] an Oocca?! "

I hope Link gets some kind of musical instrument in this one. Something better than horseshoe-plants and that awful wolf howling. And please oh please bring back Gerudo Valley!

[TGJesusfreak]

I personally love the whole idea of a 1:1 ratio sword and sheild with the Wiimote and nunchuck. It sounds like fun and I can't wait to play it.

Other's don't have to like the 'interectiveness' of it, but I do. It's only my opinion and preferences. Clearly others are entitled to dislike it.