Do you consider or call yourself an otaku? Why or why not?

[TriezGamer]

[quote="blkmage (post: 1348338)"]The difference is that those words mean more or less the same thing globally (although likely to different degrees) and they're generally not vilified.

Anyhow, being an otaku isn't something that I strive towards or would be proud of. Rather, I'm fairly indifferent to the whole thing, since it at least doesn't have the negativity attached to it here.

But, thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I'd fall into the realm of the Japanese definition of otaku: I'm following VOCALOID song production and anime MADs on Nico Nico Douga, I look forward to seeing what each Comiket brings, I'm following each season of anime pretty closely, I read a bunch of manga, visual novels, and light novels, I'm pretty familiar with and have opinions on seiyuu, directors, writers, and studios, and I talk to a bunch of other people online (beyond this forum) and read lengthy discussions and analysis about these things.

Oh well. ┐]

Yeah, that's about it for me, too.

[Fish and Chips]

Coming clean here, I'll admit I tend to use otaku as more analogous to Japanophile/Weeaboo than it's real definition, as someone who simply harbors a deep interest in a particular field or area. Technically, anyone with a vivid interest in anything could be considered an otaku. Like airplanes? Kung Fu films? Indie music? You'd probably qualify.

So yes, under it's actual usage, I suppose I'd qualify as an otaku in some respects, notably my Manga hobby, though Blkmage pointed out that Manga is actually considered more mainstream in some circles, lessening the otaku vibe. In more international straights, I guess I'm also a James Bond "Otaku," though I'd rather say enthusiast, since we're speaking English here.

Let me put it like this: I am an otaku, but not an Otaku.

[CrimsonRyu17]

Blkmage, I get what you mean but over here in the US, "Otaku" is usually associated with some creepy perv who collects anime girl figurines, only eats ramen and pocky, and lives in his mom's basement. Or a Narutard.

Would I be an "Otaku" in Japan? Probably, considering I know who Leiji Matsumoto is and watch his works, keep up with the latest anime coming up and their ratings, and build gundam model kits and such. Though if anything, I'd probably be more of a Meka Otaku or Kaiju Otaku.

Am I an "Otaku" as the west defines it? No and I never want to be.

[Bobtheduck]

I'm perfectly fine with the fact the term means something different in the US than it does in Japan.

I'm an otaku by one American definition (the blanket term for "Japanese media fan"), not quite by the Japanese definition. At least I'm not an anime otaku by the Japanese definition, and not even really a Game otaku anymore...

Perhaps I'm a game NEWS otaku... I hang out on Kotaku and pay more attention to gaming news than to actual games, embarrassingly (as I still have games I haven't finished and look forward to games I may not play)

I used to be a Rhythm game otaku. DDR when I was by myself and Rock band when I was with people...

I was an SCEI Otaku. I could list off the possible benefits of Home and was always ready for the new firmware on the PS3.

I was a PSP modding Otaku... almost.

I was most definitely a Harry Potter Otaku, and go back into that whenever a new movie or book comes out.

I was as big of a Waterdeep (band, not DnD location) Otaku as I could be without shelling out for a ticket to Kansas City to see them in concert.

I haven't been an Anime otaku since 2001. I've NEVER been a Manga otaku. I do, however, tend to like Anime and Manga that are "Otakuish" and may get classified with Otaku because my tastes don't involve sports, grunting a lot, or staring at each other for a whole issue or episode (not saying I don't watch Naruto, but... It's hardly my favorite series out there) Otaku in Japan isn't just about being obsessed, but tends to be a label given to people who don't follow mainstream trends in entertainment...

"Japanese people don't watch this kinds of anime" as an acquaintance at Japanese fellowship told me about Higurashi. "It is an otakuish show." said another.

[blkmage]

Blkmage, I get what you mean but over here in the US, "Otaku" is usually associated with some creepy perv who collects anime girl figurines, only eats ramen and pocky, and lives in his mom's basement. Or a Narutard.

Would I be an "Otaku" in Japan? Probably, considering I know who Leiji Matsumoto is and watch his works, keep up with the latest anime coming up and their ratings, and build gundam model kits and such. Though if anything, I'd probably be more of a Meka Otaku or Kaiju Otaku.

Am I an "Otaku" as the west defines it? No and I never want to be.

Oh, I know that, which is why I keep qualifying my statements. At the same time, the negative connotations in Japan also have to do with the fact that Otaku are also associated with the figure-collecting, pillowcase-hugging folks in their parents' basements too. Well, actually, I guess they've got more words for those too (hikkikomori, NEET, etc.).

And then there are those people who get together and record themselves playing Nico Nico Douga medleys in an orchestra (I mean, like a full orchestra, not a few guys) or make videos of themselves carving statues of various characters out of blocks of wood with a chainsaw.

I don't think Narutards exist in the same form, since manga (of all genres and across most demographics) is fairly mainstream.

[MasterDias]

Blkmage, I get what you mean but over here in the US, "Otaku" is usually associated with some creepy perv who collects anime girl figurines, only eats ramen and pocky, and lives in his mom's basement.

Don't you have it backwards? I thought it was generally conceived as a more positive (or at least, a neutral) term in the United States. I doubt OtakuUSA would have named their magazine off of something people would take as negative.

Also, since they was mentioned, I'll state that I don't like terms like Narutard and Weaaboo. I find it pretty silly to use terms like this...particularly one that was spawned off of a certain site. Not picking on any posters or anything, but that's just my feelings about the matter.

[CrimsonRyu17]

Don't you have it backwards? I thought it was generally conceived as a more positive (or at least, a neutral) term in the United States. I doubt OtakuUSA would have named their magazine off of something people would take as negative.

It's usually considered positive amongst other Otaku, yeah.

[ShiroiHikari]

MasterDias: I also hate the term "weeaboo" and I'm disturbed by how many anime fans have started referring to themselves as such. It's an insult, people. Why slap that label on yourself?

As for "otaku"...so, you guys are basically saying that "otaku" means "ardent fan". Right. Got it. Let me just say this: why call yourself a football "otaku" when you can just say you're a fan?

I guess I just get too caught up in semantics sometimes.

[Yamamaya]

And since there's so much knee-jerk reaction to the term, here is where I turn around and play devil's advocate.

It doesn't seem like many of you want to be considered otaku. That's alright, since the question is whether you consider yourself one. But, are you sure that you wouldn't get called one if you were in Japan?

I read a fairly interesting blog post a few weeks ago about a guy who was in Japan for some length of time. In it, he mentions how manga and anime aren't exactly considered to be a pair like we do. Over there, manga is far more ubiquitous and mainstream than anime is. His empirical evidence was that while a lot of the people he talked with were familiar with various manga series, they were surprised at his knowledge of what shows were airing at the time.

Yes, otaku has negative connotations, but those don't define what that word means. It's kind of like saying someone plays WoW. The definition of a WoW player is someone who plays WoW, not how they play it. But, playing WoW has negative connotations. I played WoW and was even into hardcore raiding (three nights a week for four hours + time for grinding and farming for mats for consumables), but I still managed to do school, go to work, hang out with friends, and quit without feeling like I went off a drug.

If you're reading Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto, you might not quite fall into the proper definition of an otaku. If you play doujin games or build model kits, you might be closer to being an otaku than you might have thought. If you just watch FMA each week, you might not fall into the definition either. If you're watching shows because of the director, studio, or cast, you might qualify. If you can hold your own in Gundam shiritori, well...

See, I talk with a bunch of anime bloggers who are fairly articulate in their analysis of anime and manga. We're talking lengthy essays about tragedy in Key works, episodic analysis for Darker than BLACK, or comparisons of dialogue between a mecha show and a supernatural comedy. These people would likely be called otaku (because of their depth of knowledge about these things), but they've got jobs or go to school and spend time with family and friends.

One last thing: otaku isn't a monolithic group. Some people really like mecha. Some people really like moe. Some people really like Touhou.

One final analogy: gamer.

By those definitions I would not be an Otaku since I do enjoy Bleach and generally don't read in depth analysis of anime and manga(unless it's NGE). Some people like the term "otaku" because it gives them more of a sense of community and sounds more exotic than just anime fan.

I have heard that manga is considered more mainstream in Japan than anime, but I guess that concept can be applied to America as well. People are more accepting of people reading comic books than they would be of someone watching cartoons based off of comic books.

And my last point is directed to Shiroi. The term "Christian" was originally meant as an offensive term but Christians adopted it. The same goes with the term "Jesus Freak." It was meant as an insult, but Christians took ahold of it and said, "Yeah I'm a Jesus Freak!"

Crimson, the word otaku really isn't mainstream enough in America for people to recognize it. They'll either look at you and say, "What's that?" Or they'll say, "Isn't that some kind of murderer in Japan?"

[CrimsonRyu17]

Crimson, the word otaku really isn't mainstream enough in America for people to recognize it. They'll either look at you and say, "What's that?" Or they'll say, "Isn't that some kind of murderer in Japan?"

Uh. If they said that, I wouldn't even know how to respond.

I do know more people who know what anime is than what an Otaku is, fortunately, but what's your point? And what does that have to do with what I said? Just because it isn't mainstream that doesn't change what "Otaku" is usually associated with.

[Yamamaya]

My point was most people aren't going to associate it with anything because they don't know what that word means.

And calling oneself a gamer or Star Wars fan also has associations with it. Heck, calling yourself anything can give someone negative associations.

[CrimsonRyu17]

My point was most people aren't going to associate it with anything because they don't know what that word means.

But if they don't know what the word means, why would they call themselves that? That's like saying, "hay, I'm gonna call myself a milliner because I like hats and milliners like hats." Otherwise, I don't even get why you're talking about non-anime fans, if that's what you're talking about, when this thread was directed towards anime fans. I don't get it.

[Yamamaya]

You're the one who brought up the connotation that comes from calling yourself an otaku to other people.(and most people don't go up to people and say, "Hi I'm an otaku!"

If anyone else asks me, I just say I'm an anime fan. However if I'm around anime fans, I will use the term otaku.

[CrimsonRyu17]

You're the one who brought up the connotation that comes from calling yourself an otaku to other people.(and most people don't go up to people and say, "Hi I'm an otaku!"

Ooookay, I srsly have no idea how you got that from my posts. Did you even read them?

To sum up what I said, "Am I an "Otaku" as the west defines it? No and I never want to be." MasterDias says, "Don't you have it backwards? I thought it was generally conceived as a more positive (or at least, a neutral) term in the United States." I respond with, "It's usually considered positive amongst other Otaku, yeah."

Are you suggesting that all anime fans consider themselves Otaku? Because there are plenty of sane people who still like anime and don't want to be considered Otaku because it's associated with creepyness and obsession over cartoon girls. These are the other people I'm talking about, not some random people in the mall. Otaku is a derogatory label over here in the US and it's usually only considered positive to other Otaku, hence OtakuUSA being geared towards OTHER Otaku. Not the general public.

[Scarecrow]

Nope...

I watch anime cause I like the art style. If the art style doesn't interest me, I probably wont watch it (although story matter's too... but I don't care how amazing the story is, if the art is garbage or uninspired, forget it) Also, I watch everything with an official dub. No official US release and dub, I wont watch it. Rarely watch official subs and that's only if I can't tolerate the english voices at all. That's why I'm not a huge fan of Miazaki films... I really can't stand his art style... even if it is amazing fluid animation and well done. Princess Mononoke was the only one of his I really cared for. And Howl's Moving Castle would have been good if the story wasn't such a bore and actually went somewhere.

I'd think most Otaku, if I were to claim to be one, would excommunicate me which is fine by me =D

[Roy Mustang]

Question for the otakus.

Are you a rice straw thatch or a nice brick one?


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

[goldenspines]

I watch anime cause I like the art style. If the art style doesn't interest me, I probably wont watch it (although story matter's too... but I don't care how amazing the story is, if the art is garbage or uninspired, forget it).

I used to think like this as well (still do in some cases), until I read 20th Century Boys. The art is somewhat bland, but the story will knock your socks off that you'll hardly notice the art.

Although, animation and art are two very different things. For example, I would say I loved the art of Fullmoon, but I didn't like the animation as well.



Anyways, I'm getting off topic. Also, make sure we all continue to keep it friendly and peaceful in here. ^_^

[Nate]

but I don't care how amazing the story is, if the art is garbage or uninspired, forget it

"Things only have value if they're attractive!"

[Yamamaya]

Ooookay, I srsly have no idea how you got that from my posts. Did you even read them?

To sum up what I said, "Am I an "Otaku" as the west defines it? No and I never want to be." MasterDias says, "Don't you have it backwards? I thought it was generally conceived as a more positive (or at least, a neutral) term in the United States." I respond with, "It's usually considered positive amongst other Otaku, yeah."

Are you suggesting that all anime fans consider themselves Otaku? Because there are plenty of sane people who still like anime and don't want to be considered Otaku because it's associated with creepyness and obsession over cartoon girls. These are the other people I'm talking about, not some random people in the mall. Otaku is a derogatory label over here in the US and it's usually only considered positive to other Otaku, hence OtakuUSA being geared towards OTHER Otaku. Not the general public.

There are plenty of girls who are also Otakus. In fact, yaoi is often geared towards them.

Here's my points.
No 1: Among many anime fans, otaku is not considered a derogatory term
No 2: Every non anime fan doesn't even know what it means.
Then the only people who consider the term derogatory are either people who don't understand anime at all/other anime fans/some random person on the internet who happens to know what the term means.

But I fear I am getting OT and entering an argument so I'll stop posting about this manner.

[CrimsonRyu17]

There are plenty of girls who are also Otakus. In fact, yaoi is often geared towards them.

And Yaoi isn't rabidly creepy?

Then the only people who consider the term derogatory are either people who don't understand anime at all/other anime fans/some random person on the internet who happens to know what the term means.

The only people who don't consider the term derogatory are Otakus. That should say something.

I also have been watching anime for years and have seen both mainstream and very unknown anime and probably know more than your average "otaku" so I'm not just some "other anime fan" kthnx.

But I fear I am getting OT and entering an argument so I'll stop posting about this manner.

Usually it's a good idea to say that before posting your post.

[MasterDias]

I think one or both of you are getting some wires crossed here.

The only people who don't consider the term derogatory are Otakus. That should say something.

If you define "Otakus" as "anime fans," than the argument doesn't necessarily make sense, as no one (in the United States) other than anime fans would actually know the term or what it means...so they couldn't actually consider it derogatory.
I believe this is what Yamamaya was arguing.

[Yamamaya]

I think one or both of you are getting some wires crossed here.


If you define "Otakus" as "anime fans," than the argument doesn't necessarily make sense, as no one (in the United States) other than anime fans would actually know the term or what it means...so they couldn't actually consider it derogatory.
I believe this is what Yamamaya was arguing.

Thank you.

[CrimsonRyu17]

If you define "Otakus" as "anime fans," than the argument doesn't necessarily make sense, as no one (in the United States) other than anime fans would actually know the term or what it means...so they couldn't actually consider it derogatory.
I believe this is what Yamamaya was arguing.

We're not talking about people who don't know anything about anime. I thought I already made that clear. "Otaku" doesn't simply mean "anime fan" HERE IN THE US. Over here, it's a derogatory term that describes obsessive, creepy anime fans. "Otaku" in Japan, simply means "fan" which means you can be a sports Otaku! You can be a mecha Otaku! You can be any Otaku! IN JAPAN. But over here, it's an obsessived creepy anime fan. It's like those annoying people who use "Kawaii!" and "Sugoi!" in America in front of people that have no idea what those words mean just to show how much of a fan they are. If Yamamaya thinks this, then he doesn't know what "Otaku" means here.

I thought I made all this clear, and the people before me did too.

[Fish and Chips]

Urban Dictionary is here to save the day.

Otaku is the honorific word of Taku (home).

Otaku is extremely negative in meaning as it is used to refer to someone who stays at home all the time and doesn't have a life (no social life, no love life, etc)

Usually an otaku person has nothing better to do with their life so they pass the time by watching anime, playing videogames, surfing the internet (otaku is also used to refer to a nerd/hacker/programmer).

In the Western culture, people confuse otaku to be something positive like "Guru". If you think about it, it's not really good to be called a guru if it means you are a total loser who can't socialize with other people except through the Internet.

[Scarecrow]

"Things only have value if they're attractive!"

And what's wrong with that? Just like storytelling, visuals and style are art too. I prefer style over substance yes. But that doesn't mean I'll just settle for any mediocre story just because it's flashy. I thought the anime Basilisk looked amazing. The art style was great!! The whole thing was a bore to watch though. Or that stupid Gotham Knight (which was actually a mix of both great and horrible art)

There is nothing wrong for having a flair for style and visual artistry over storytelling. Anime/movies etc are VISUAL medium. Stories should be just as important as the visuals. But most will forgive the look/visuals/atmosphere if the story is good. Likewise, I'm a bit more forgiving of the story if the art is good. I'm kind of sick of all these people who feel they are so "open minded" cause they like some art house flick that's about as interesting to watch as the back of my hand and then criticize others for being drawn to other stuff more focused on art and style.

Both are a form of art and both need people who excel in each area. And there is nothing wrong with liking art over story anymore than there is liking story over art.

[MasterDias]

But over here, it's an obsessived creepy anime fan. It's like those annoying people who use "Kawaii!" and "Sugoi!" in America in front of people that have no idea what those words mean just to show how much of a fan they are. If Yamamaya thinks this, then he doesn't know what "Otaku" means here.

I thought I made all this clear, and the people before me did too.

This is actually more in line of what I've always understood (darn, I can't avoid saying it...) a negative term like "weeaboo" to mean...

Perhaps we browse different areas of the internet, but I've never noticed quite the negative western opinion of the word "Otaku" as you indicate. I've always understood that while the Japanese generally take it to be derogatory, Americans (perhaps mistakenly) take it somewhat more positively...
And Fish's Urban Dictionary post sort of supports this...

[blkmage]

So after some thinking, I've come up with an even better analogous term than gamer, which might even qualify as a fairly legitimate localization of the term: geek/nerd.

Discuss.

[CrimsonRyu17]

This is actually more in line of what I've always understood (darn, I can't avoid saying it...) a negative term like "weeaboo" to mean...

Where do you think weeaboo started? It came from all these anime fans, calling themselves "otakus" instead of just "anime fans", and acting like they're soooo interested in the culture and they know soooo much about Japan but they're actually just obsessed with anime.

Perhaps we browse different areas of the internet, but I've never noticed quite the negative western opinion of the word "Otaku" as you indicate.

Because the internets = AMERICA!

I've always understood that while the Japanese generally take it to be derogatory, Americans (perhaps mistakenly) take it somewhat more positively...
And Fish's Urban Dictionary post sort of supports this...

I have no idea how you came up with that conclusion. You're actually got it flipped. Japanese "Otaku" just means "fan". I ALREADY informed you about this and you ignore my post. Do you even read it?

[Nate]

And what's wrong with that? Just like storytelling, visuals and style are art too.

Yes, they are art. I admit that. But if you want good art, look at a painting. Anime is focused on telling a story. Art helps with that (otherwise you'd just have drama CDs, which coincidentally are really popular in Japan as well but that's beside the point) but ultimately the art takes a back seat to the story as far as I'm concerned. Again, if you want pretty pictures, then look at paintings or photos.

You admit that really flashy art and a bad story is something you don't like either; that's great, but it only FURTHER proves my point. If it looks attractive but has almost no story, it's not enjoyable. That is proof 100% that art is secondary to a story in an anime.

So then why in the world would you not watch something with a fantastic story but possibly mediocre art? Since the story is the primary thing that matters (which you inadvertently admit by saying you don't like anime with a boring story but good art), why wouldn't you want to enjoy the good story? It's not like you won't be entertained.

I just can't wrap my head around it. It's like saying you won't read The Chronicles of Narnia because it doesn't have pictures in it.

I was being mostly snarky in my post earlier but seriously saying "I don't like anime with a good story if it doesn't have good art" is like saying "I don't like girls with good personalities unless they're hot."

Besides, doesn't the Bible describe Jesus himself as being unattractive? Further proof that sometimes the best things don't always look good.

[goldenspines]

Simpy put, "Otaku" is a Japanese word. It should be applied with its Japanese meaning, wherever you are.
The western meaning of Otaku is basically a weeaboo. Although, most people don't call themselves weeaboos because it essentially means "a want to be Japanese person", but the only thing they know about Japan is anime, so thus this stereotype is placed on anime fans outside of Japan.

Therefore, following that logic, wouldn't it be, that if you don't take the original meaning of the word, "Otaku", and apply your own "westernized" meaning, because you're a diehard anime fan, that would make you a weeaboo?

But yes, people, please keep it nice in here, don't make me lock this. Also, think and research stuff before you post.