Fornication is not a sin?

[SnEptUne]

I have grown up from a culture that view fornication as a great sin, that those who have engaged in sexual activity must get married. Nevertheless, it seems in today's society that many people believe it isn't a sin, because it isn't even against the law.

Maybe I am just being prudish, but I was pretty confident that in the bible, it stated that fornication is a sin. In the other words, I do not believe single unmarried people should go play sex games with anyone he/she likes because he/she isn't bounded by marriage.

Or am I being deceived by my upbringing? Afterall, I was raised by grandparents, so my thinking may not be in touch with modern world?

[sharien chan]

Premarital sex is sin according to the bible. Sex is reserved only for marriage, as it creates a strong bond (something about becoming one flesh...I understand it but not able to explain it or find it in the bible...I know it's there though!)
So you are right, and society is the one that's wrong in regards to premarital sex. =)

[Shilohan ninja]

I agree whole-heartedly with sharien chan on this one. I believe it is clearly spelled out in God's word that there will only be sex inside wedlock, nowhere else. Society has been fooling itself for centuries. Don't believe the lie. Listen to gramps and granny when they tell these things, man. It's good for you.
-SN-

[termyt]

By any mainstream designation in line with Christian thought and teaching, it is a sin.

I hesitate to label anything as a sin, though. Not because I’m afraid of calling something what it is but because of the effect of that label on our society.

By categorizing what we do into this or that bucket, we also categorize the people who do those activities as a certain type of person. In society at large, Christians are people who categorize things a sins and then say we shouldn’t do them because God says so.

I would rather say that that is not part of the lifestyle God planned for us to promote healthy, joyful, and peaceful lives.

I suppose I am not exactly answering the question, but the word sin is a powerful one in our culture – it obviously does not have a positive connotation and its use rarely brings about a positive result. We unfortunately continue to be obsessed with it and mention it ad nauseam even though what is sin is of little relevance to anyone who is already ignoring God and seems an impassable hurdle to anyone who is interested but mired in it.

The logic flows this way:
We sin (to our pleasure or our shame)
Christians/The Bible/God says, “Sin is bad. Knock it off.”
To be a Christian, you must stop sinning.
To know God, you must become a Christian.
Therefore, before you can know God, you must stop sinning.

This is so very wrong. If we had to first stop sinning, who would be saved?

This is the way it should go:
Understand that that certain something that is missing in your life that you keep trying to fill with sex or drugs or Cheetos or work or marriage.
That something can not be filled by those things.
What you really desired is a relationship with your Creator.
Approach your Maker with an honest and open heart, devoting yourself to Him instead of whatever else it was you were pursuing.
He will change you into the type of person He wants you to be.

The Bible does not exist to tells that if we stop doing A, B, and C and start doing X, Y, and Z then God will love us and we get to go to heaven.

The Bible instead is filled with stories and examples of the nature of God. If anything, God is pursuing us. He wants us. We do not change to please Him, but we accept Him and by His very nature we are transformed into what He desires for us to be.

There is no restriction on who may approach God through the wonderful tragic mystery of Jesus Christ. Come as you are. Feel the warmth of His embrace. Be transformed by His being. Then you can worry about that – what was it again? I forgot. Oh well, it doesn’t seem all that important anymore, anyways.

[SnEptUne]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, we as humans are sinners, but that doesn't mean we cannot be saved. I have done many terrible things as a child, but I am trying my best these days to live by God's word in the past decade, not because of promise of heaven, but more for a peace of mind (and happiness).

Sadly, there are many expectations from the society that influence us, conciously and subconciously. One of which is sexuality, that somehow people equal lust with happiness O_o.

For example, if I enrolled in a classroom where 90% of my classmates are of the opposite gender, people would comment I am trying to get a mate. If a brother and sister are eating lunch together in school cafeteria, people automatically jumped to the conclusion they are a couple. Where on earth did they get that idea? School is for education, not a social club. *sigh*

So now, siblings are to hate (or be indifferent with) each other if they don't want people labeling them as incest. What society have we gotten in?

[NJel]

Sexuality, unfortunately, is a powerful tool in the devil's arsenal in today's world because of the sheer impact it can have on both christian and non-christian lives. Not only that, but our society is completely surrounded by it. You're a loser if you don't lose your virginity by age (what's the age now?), or if the girl you're dating is not "hot" by their standards, or some other reasons.

There are divisions even among those who are already sexually immoral because of the their "taboo" in various societies (gays for example), so it not only destroys christian lives, but it also destroys non-christian lives, and these are the people we need to be there for instead of letting them become shattered to the point of death.

Fornication is a sin, don't let anyone deceive you, BUT, as a christian, be careful not to place judgement on people who do, because they, just like anyone else, can change according to God's Word. It is not what they do to come to Christ, but it is what we do to bring them to Christ. We are there to see them through, not to see through them.

[Nate]

I believe it is clearly spelled out in God's word that there will only be sex inside wedlock, nowhere else.

That's untrue, actually. I'm not saying the Bible says premarital sex is okay, what I'm saying is that it isn't clearly spelled out. It's one of those things where you have to read passages and go "Okay, from what these passages are saying, we can safely assume premarital sex is wrong." The closest the Bible comes is when Jesus says anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in their heart has already commited adultery. From this, it is apparent that having sex with said woman is also a sin. But there is no verse anywhere that says "Thou shalt not have sex before marriage."

[NJel]

Nah,

You're not deceived by your upbringing; in fact, my parents brought me up in the same manner I just didn't obey them (wishing I had now). Fornication, like anything else, is a "symptom" of what I like to, personally, call the "Sin Virus". Because the carnal nature is naturally sinful, we are all sinners, so it is only through Christ we can have victory over such natures.

Even if it is not spelled out "Thou shalt not have sex before marriage", the fact remains that each commandment, each law, is drawn into two categories "Love the Lord with all your Heart", and "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", so if we fail to love we break all of the law. Lusting after another woman in your heart is not love, and it's impossible to love if you are sleeping around before marriage. If you have sex with someone before marriage then obviously you do not love that person enough to wait, because you have just put sex before them.

Ergo, since it is impossible to love via premarital sex, then premarital sex is, therefore, wrong (sinful).

[Nate]

it's impossible to love if you are sleeping around before marriage.

Ergo, since it is impossible to love via premarital sex, then premarital sex is, therefore, wrong (sinful).

Without getting too theological, I will just say, I completely and totally disagree with these statements. It's very easy to throw stones and pretend that you know someone's motivation behind their actions, without even knowing their feelings or the situation.

[ShiroiHikari]

I'd just like to remind everybody that "fornication" and "adultery" aren't the same thing.

[uc pseudonym]

I'd just like to remind everyone that the main issue is resolved, at least for the thread starter. Before posting consider whether you're trying to help or just advocating a position for your own sake.

[JesusFreak84]

That's untrue, actually. I'm not saying the Bible says premarital sex is okay, what I'm saying is that it isn't clearly spelled out. It's one of those things where you have to read passages and go "Okay, from what these passages are saying, we can safely assume premarital sex is wrong." The closest the Bible comes is when Jesus says anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in their heart has already commited adultery. From this, it is apparent that having sex with said woman is also a sin. But there is no verse anywhere that says "Thou shalt not have sex before marriage."

Actually, it is clearly spelled out:

1Co 6:18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth is without the body: but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. (DRB)

All sex outside of a marriage is sin, be it fornication or adultery.

So yes, SnEptUne, your grandparents are spot-on. They grew up in a moral universe when right and wrong were still accepted as being clearly defined, rather than the postmodern garbage that tries to dictate our morality now.

*Steps off of soapbox.*

[NJel]

Amen! lol

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Actually, it is clearly spelled out:

To fully understand it's meaning and intentions, one would have to examine the Greek Septuagint. The reason for this is because not all English translations say the word "Fornication". For example, the NIV says "Flee from sexual immorality" as opposed to "fornication". The NASB, NLT, ESB, heck nearly all the other translations say otherwise.

Granted I'm not saying fornication is not a sin. No way, it still certainly is. All the "little" verses in the Bible add up to make this claim true.

[JesusFreak84]

The Septuagint is a translation of the OT, and the verse I cited is from the NT.

[SnEptUne]

Actually, I don't think the "version" of bible matters too much, because they are authorized by God. So if the NT stated clearly that it is a sin, I see no reasons to see it otherwise, unless it was contradicting other passages or common senses. At least that's how I see it.

Beside, even if the bible didn't state so, fornication will only complicates matters, and may create unwanted children with no father (or doesn't know which one is the real father). Frankly, fornication just creeps me out, just like many of the modern novels I must read where the protagonist would have sex with strangers if not boyfriends. Oh my!

[12praiseGOD]

Fornication is bad...and my opinion comes from this verse in the Bible:
"But sexual immorality and any impurity or greed should not even be heard of among you, as is proper for saints... For know and recognize this: no sexually immmoral or impure or greedy person, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of the Messiah and of God." Ephesians 5: 2-5.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

The Septuagint is a translation of the OT, and the verse I cited is from the NT.

You're right. I thought the Septuagint was the entire Greek Bible. My mistake.

Regardless, I would still like to shine my own point on this matter.

[Raiden no Kishi]

Hey, 2nd year Koine Greek student chiming in. The word in 1 Cor 6:18 in question, "porneian," carries the meaning of "sexual immorality, harlotry (including adultery and incest)".

Sorry to interrupt; do continue.

.rai//

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Thanks for the explanation, Rai! Much appreciated, doktor.

[termyt]

Without getting too theological, I will just say, I completely and totally disagree with these statements. It's very easy to throw stones and pretend that you know someone's motivation behind their actions, without even knowing their feelings or the situation.

I believe we may be coming at this from very different points of view which is causing unnecessary confusion. There are at least three relevant but different definitions for marriage.

1. Cultural - what makes a marriage in the eyes of the community around you?

2. Legal - what makes a marriage in the eyes of the state?

3. Biblical - what makes a marriage in the eyes of God?

1 and 2 deal with appearances and legal contracts and will generally align pretty closely. The third is the basis for 1 & 2, but is more concerned with body and spirit. Sex out side of the social and legal marriages may have social and legal ramifications but, as far as sin goes, only the third is relevant.

[Nate]

3. Biblical - what makes a marriage in the eyes of God?

This is the one I'm most concerned with, which is where I was speaking from. The legal definition of marriage is necessary and important, but (in my mind) has little to do with sin.

For example, if two people have pledged their lives to each other and promised to be faithful, but can't get married because they're broke and can't afford it, I wouldn't see it as a sin if they had sex. They've devoted themselves and taken a vow before God. Just because they don't have a piece of paper, or just because some dude in a white collar doesn't say "You're now man and wife," doesn't make them any less married in my mind.

In fact, I'd be encouraging of a couple who wasn't married in a legal sense, but had been together for years and were devoted to each other if they had sex. I'd be less encouraging of a couple who knew each other for two days and went to a justice of the peace for a marriage and then had sex.

Really what I had a problem with was this statement,

it is impossible to love via premarital sex

I'm not sure what way it was meant. If he meant it in the sense that the world thinks you must have sex before marriage to display your love, then I agree with it and it was just worded poorly (or I just misinterpreted). If he meant it in the sense that "If you have premarital sex you don't love the person," then I vehemently disagree. That's why I made the comment about judging other people's motivations.

We're all sinful human beings, and any love we have for another person is imperfect. This imperfect love can cause us to do stupid things sometimes. Two people may love each other very much, and accidentally fall into temptation and have premarital sex. That doesn't mean they don't love each other just because they made a mistake. That was my biggest problem with the post, was the insinuation that anyone who has premarital sex is just acting on lustful impulses...which simply isn't true.