BIG mistake! I feel so low

[itch]

[color="Indigo"]Okay, where to start? I really don't know how to explain this but I'll try my best.

I wrote something in a thread on another website concerning salvation. I was trying to lie low but I couldn't help but say something. . .

This is the post that started the conversation (not mine, another person): [/color]

"Hello there!
While I know that questioning the many flaws in Christian faith will supposedly cause me to be damned to Hell for being correct, I'd still like to point this out":

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/gardyfunkle/Christianity.jpg



So I said:

[color="DarkRed"]"If you're worried about being damned to Hell why don't you assure your place in Heaven? Just in case, right?"[/color]




And someone else said:

"then it'd be faith by fear."



Then someone else said:

"faith by fear isn't a bad thing! We are supposed to fear God and what He could do to us! So I think that "faith by fear" is perfectly ok, as long as it grows later. I mean, I know plenty of really Godly people who came to Christ because they were afraid of going to hell."


So I said:

[color="DarkRed"]"Right on. Also, fear means respect."[/color]

Then someone said this concerning my earlier comment:

"Why not try to reach Nirvana. Just in case, right?

Hell, why not live life to the fullest, just in case it's your only one?

This is not an answer, it's an excuse. "

[color="Indigo"]I really need help to straighten up what I said since I can't take the words back.

Please try to understand what I meant to say first. I meant to be a bit sarcastic and humorous and laid-back about it. It made sense to me in my head and since I was rushing to put something down, I screwed up big time and didn't expect it to be taken the way it was. . . although I should have.

I have Skype so if anyone wants to talk about it that way I'd appreciate it soooo much.

Please send me any comments through this thread or PM's or Skype.[/color]

[ClosetOtaku]

Another person matched your point with an apt counterpoint. The core question, as C.S. Lewis might say, is whether Heaven or Nirvana are "Real". You played down the "Real" of Heaven. In your opinion -- from your point of view -- Heaven and God and Jesus are Real. But you replaced "Real" with "Probable", and that is where you left it.

You have reasons -- both academic and experiential -- that have convinced you of what is Real. (If you haven't, better check your faith to see why you believe what you believe.) The delta between what you have seen and what you hope is Real must be covered by faith. That's an essential ingredient of Christianity. But you have exchanged your faith for Pascal's Wager -- betting on God pays off more than betting on no God.

So, explain why you believe what you believe, and that you have faith in what you haven't yet seen. That will certainly distance your beliefs from those of other religious systems -- especially Nirvana, which is based on works, not faith.

But, yes, you were outwitted by that other fellow on the board. He took your argument, and turned it effectively against you. Chalk it up to experience...

[Shao_Zeng]

well i think your both wrong in this..#1 you can't "assure" you're place in heaven only God can.

i had a number two but in writing number one i forgot..oop's.. i'd like to go further into this but i won't..

[Reba]

Well I think your both wrong in this..#1 you can't "assure" your place in heaven only God can.

I had a number two but in writing number one i forgot..Oops.. I'd like to go further into this but i won't..

It's true, You can't Assure you're own place, Only god can through Faith, It takes Faith To have Faith right? Who gives the faith? We can't get it on our own so how can we get into heaven on our own?

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God Takes you, You don't take him.

John, You could be a bit more nice?

[Shao_Zeng]

It's true, You can't Assure you're own place, Only god can through Faith, It takes Faith To have Faith right? Who gives the faith? We can't get it on our own so how can we get into heaven on our own?

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God Takes you, You don't take him.

John, You could be a bit more nice?

eh sorry..

[Momo-P]

I think ClosetOtaku gave the best response, however...isn't Nirvana part of Hinduism? If I remember correctly, you basically get so many lives in the Hindu belief, so technically speaking to "miss out" on it for Christianity isn't such a dumb idea. I mean, if Christianity really wasn't right, you'd just get another chance anyways, so...ya. Big whoop. Course perhaps I just mixed up Buddhism and it...ugh. Been so long since that dang class. x_x

But either way, I still stand by my original response. Your response wasn't totally bad, but next time it's a good idea to read over what you post before saying it. Make sure it stands good on it's own or if you need to add extra.

But otherwise don't feel too bad, we've all made that mistake before. Probably more than once unfortunately. x_x

[Mithrandir]

In my experience, learning from embarrassment is likely the most effective form of learning. Learning not to DWELL on it, probably the hardest.

Required mod note:
On the whole, I'd say a discussion ABOUT debating probably walks as close to the line as we'll be comfortable with. Please keep things above the board, and no one will get hurt.

[Reba]

[quote="Mithrandir (post: 1196704)"]In my experience, learning from embarrassment is likely the most effective form of learning. Learning not to DWELL on it, probably the hardest.

Required mod note:
On the whole, I'd say a discussion ABOUT debating probably walks as close to the line as we'll be comfortable with. Please keep things above the board, and no one will get hurt. ]

Agree'd.

[ClosetOtaku]

however...isn't Nirvana part of Hinduism?

From our friends at Wikipedia:

In the Visuddhimagga, Ch. I, v. 6, Buddhaghosa identifies various options within the Pali canon for pursuing a path to nirvana, including:

1.by insight (vipassana) alone (see Dh. 277)
2.by jhana and understanding (see Dh. 372)
3.by deeds, vision and righteousness (see MN iii.262)
4.by virtue, consciousness and understanding (7SN i.13)
5.by virtue, understanding, concentration and effort (see SN i.53)
6.by the four foundations of mindfulness (see Satipatthana Sutta, DN ii.290)

Depending on one's analysis, each of these options could be seen as a reframing of the Buddha's Threefold Training of virtue, mental development and wisdom.

Hence my assertion that Nirvana can only be achieved by works -- which may not be totally accurate depending on the Buddhist POV, but stands as an appropriate way of distinguishing Buddhism from Christianity (righteousness by faith).

[steeve]

An old sensie of mine once said that if you are bold enough to share God and his word with someone -- no matter what you say or how little -- there is no way it cannot affect thier lives. God's word does not sit in thier brain and do nothing, it has power -- an effect. because you sucked up your pride and said something they will consider God in thier head for another five seconds. that same five seconds could be THE five seconds.

Part of me feels like i have no business here saying things and all, but I had to comment this because I have said waaaaayyyy stupider things, and it still affected people.

I am darn proud of you.

[itch]

wow guys. thank you so much for your support and advice. it's really nice that all of you cared enough to put so much thought into your posts.

when i figure out how i will apologize and explain to those people what i meant to say, i will let you know how it goes. i still need to pray about it though.

and sorry for putting this thread in the wrong place. can you tell me where i should have put it?

[SnEptUne]

Although I got confused about who is doing the talking and who is claiming faith by fear and such, I don't think it really matter whether Heaven or Hell exist in afterlife, but living by God for me is Heaven by itself. Nothing pain me more than committing a sin without even feeling guilty about it.

What is fear? Is it sickness or is it self-preservation? Or does fear exists because we think we fear? People have the ability to see future, just not the present. Cause and effect, events happen, whether good or bad, but not without causes. But then, what do we fear of since we choose and can see the road we walk. We don't jump into a pit of hell on purpose, just like we don't deliberately avoid faith. Is that faith by fear? I doubt it.

[jaems-kun]

Sorry, I didn't read the initial post very closely (I have two 4 year old nephews trying to grab my laptop) so forgive me if my reply is inadequate, but I wanted to specify that fear of God is not the same as fear of hell. Thus, I personally don't believe that "just in case" style salvation works.