What kinds of fans scare you the most?

[uc pseudonym]

Multi-posts have been merged. Please edit.

One thought on the sub vs dub issue, not to anyone in particular: I've never understood how people who don't understand Japanese can advocate/oppose the Japanese voice actors so adamantly. The sentence cadence, the inflection on specific words... if you don't understand the language, none of that has any meaning. For that reason, I've never felt I can have an opinion on the subject. There are voice actors in both languages that annoy me, but other than that I find most of them just average.

[Stephen]

I love how the sub vs dub people ignore it when the Japanese that make some anime even say the English is better....But if it makes you feel like a cooler anime fan to bash the English dub, go right ahead.

[kat-su-chan]

I don't really think it's a matter of bashing the english dub. This is kind of how I feel about sub vs dub and why I prefer sub.
First of all, I like the sub because I feel it's more authentic. Original language, less things are lost in translation and since it's definately Japanese, it just feels like it makes more sense and is better in Japanese.
Secondly, I find a lot of dubbed versions of animes become a lot more of a joke, a lot more appealing to all ages and moreso to younger kids. Because I find a lot of the time, a lot of people I come into contact with are like - you like cartoons? what? It's just a different culture in America and Canada, so cartoons are more childlike and often lose a lot of the original content. I don't know if that makes sense, but I feel like the maturity level and I don't mean in terms of content as far as nudity, sexuality or violence goes, moreso phsychologially and intellectually, is dropped vastly when in english as opposed to the original Japanese.
Thirdly, I love Japan and I study Japanese. So I like to watch it in Japanese because it helps my pronounciation because I'm used to hearing it. It's also fun to see how much I can figure out without reading the subs
I mean, this can even branch off into whether you like manga versions or anime versions better. because it's almost the same thing. If you're a purist you're going to say you like manga better because that's where it starts, then you like the Japanese original anime, because that's the next level down and then the dub the least because that's the farthest from the original.
I guess I just feel like the anime always is so far off or so different from the manga already to begin with, that when it's dubbed it loses it's Japanese-y culture and general level of 'goodness' too.
I don't know. I really feel like a lot of the things they play on tv nowadays and what they played when I was a kid in english dub (pokemon, inuyashu, dragon ball z etc etc) really kind of puts a bad name on anime, manga, Japan, whatever. Because it's just so daaang annoying.

Haha, sorry, very opinionated... If you like the dub, it's ok with me, nothing against you! BUT (dan dan dannnn...) we can never truly bond by watching it together late into the night and giggling!!! (soap opera dramatics) because I will be on the other side of the country reading subtitles XP
(lol im so cheesy)



Oh! and I think what scares me the most is...when there are people who you meet and you just KNOW they like anime and not just like it either, to correct myself, are obsessed with it. Not just obsessed with it either, live thinking they are animated. And not just because they have a monokoroo boo or hello kitty bag or something. But just because...I don't know. They're...weird. somehow...IDK.
if anyone knows what I mean or what I'm talking about please testify and come to my rescue so I don't look like a complete nut.
<3 Kat

[RobinSena]

That instantly reminded me of a friend(online) of mine, who mostly talks about dragons, her dragon form, etc. Kinda scary.. She also likes yaoi.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that she wanted to draw myself and a mutual online friend in a shounen ai/yoai(non-explicit) drawing..

[kat-su-chan]

haha kowaiii (scary)

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Lolicon and furries... That's what bothers me. Hentai and Yaoi fans bother me too, but not as much...

certain Yaoi fans bother me. I've got a story that applies to most of the above. At my first convention a friend of mine and I were dragged in to Inu Yasha cosplay. I was Miroku and he was Shippou. We were wandering through the Artist's Alley when the girls in the group came across a pair of artists at a table with lots of stuff that they liked. The two artists went Gaga over Jon and I in our costumes (Jon's Shippou). They asked for pictures. We shrugged. Getting pictures was kind of the point for us so we posed. Then they started asking for... weird pictures. One of them handed me a banana and told me to stick it in Jon's ear with a maniacal grin. Yeah... Later that weekend they were arrested for seling shotokon.

[Shadowalker]

I don't really think it's a matter of bashing the english dub. This is kind of how I feel about sub vs dub and why I prefer sub.
First of all, I like the sub because I feel it's more authentic. Original language, less things are lost in translation and since it's definately Japanese, it just feels like it makes more sense and is better in Japanese.
Secondly, I find a lot of dubbed versions of animes become a lot more of a joke, a lot more appealing to all ages and moreso to younger kids. Because I find a lot of the time, a lot of people I come into contact with are like - you like cartoons? what? It's just a different culture in America and Canada, so cartoons are more childlike and often lose a lot of the original content. I don't know if that makes sense, but I feel like the maturity level and I don't mean in terms of content as far as nudity, sexuality or violence goes, moreso phsychologially and intellectually, is dropped vastly when in english as opposed to the original Japanese.
Thirdly, I love Japan and I study Japanese. So I like to watch it in Japanese because it helps my pronounciation because I'm used to hearing it. It's also fun to see how much I can figure out without reading the subs

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I will say that I myself perfer the subs for some anime. Certain anime strike me as being uniquely rooted in the Japanese culture and the broader Japanese society - Bleach, Full Metal Alchemist, Shakugan no Shana, and a lot of school-based anime are like this to me. With the sub version, you maintain a bit more of the original Japanese cultural flavour, I find.

OTOH, some animes have a less Japanese-centric feel to them. A lot of the magical girl and mecha animes are like this to me (i.e. it's not like magical girls or big giant robots aren't popular in North American culture as well), so I generally perfer to see them in English Dub format.

I'm not hardcore either way, though. It's just the folks who act like, say, it's a terrible crime to watch English dub Sailor Moon but not sub Sailor Moon, that bother me a bit.

I mean, this can even branch off into whether you like manga versions or anime versions better. because it's almost the same thing. If you're a purist you're going to say you like manga better because that's where it starts, then you like the Japanese original anime, because that's the next level down and then the dub the least because that's the farthest from the original.

Well, it should be pointed out that in some cases the anime actually came before the manga (i.e. the manga was based on the anime - not the other way around). Off the top of my head, I know that this is true of El Hazard, and Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha - two of my favourite animes.

Still, I get your points.

[Tyrel]

:/ FYI, you are being the poster child of such snobbery.

Ok, I can accept that.

Not so. Some people leave a fandom because once it becomes mainstream, perversion of the series becomes all too rampant. It's because of fangirls that I personally would leave a series, unless I liked it too much. Yes, rabid, senseless fangirls are enough to drive people away from a series.

And YES, I don't like lolicon/shotacon fans and especially how it's become more acceptable.

When you say that the fandom can pervert the series, are you speaking about one of the "never ending story" series, which are simply aimed as continuing all the time, being changed in accord with what the majority of fans want, or are you talking about a series, from beginning to end already completed, gaining a following from such people being inherently perverted simply because of the following?

If you mean a show changing because of the fans, then I might agree depending how it changed. However, if you mean to say that a show having a certain amount of fans you don't happen to like, then I probably thoroughly {though respectfully} disagree with you. I think that's one of the silliest reasons to start or stop watching/reading/playing anything at all. I mean, I don't care who else is or isn't watching Ergo Proxy, I enjoyed it. I don't care who else does or doesn't watch Arthur in the morning on PBS, I like that show, and having younger siblings, it's the perfect weekday morning show. I don't care how many people like "Fruits Basket" That show almost killed me with only one episode, and nobody can convince me there is any real redeeming factor making it worth watching.

One thought on the sub vs dub issue, not to anyone in particular: I've never understood how people who don't understand Japanese can advocate/oppose the Japanese voice actors so adamantly. The sentence cadence, the inflection on specific words... if you don't understand the language, none of that has any meaning. For that reason, I've never felt I can have an opinion on the subject. There are voice actors in both languages that annoy me, but other than that I find most of them just average.

That's an interesting thought, but I have found that after having watched 3-4 anime, the words start to stick. I can almost hold a conversation with friends now. I know it's not all proper, but the inflections in the language aren't hard to pick up on at all, because the verbalization is similar to French and English to a degree. I mean, compare with Hebrew or.. Better yet, compare it with Chinese. Chinese the inflections are actually necessary to keep the meaning. Now, in Japanese {especially because English has had such an influence there, in many ways including cultural}, the inflections are similar to ours, and I find that as soon as you kind of understand the just of it, you can follow a good deal without subtitles even based only on "how" they say things. Sure there are nuances of the language, but you pick up on those as well. I find that, for example, things are more humorous in Japanese than English, often just because I can now pick up on the language a bit more and understand the connotations.

I love how the sub vs dub people ignore it when the Japanese that make some anime even say the English is better....But if it makes you feel like a cooler anime fan to bash the English dub, go right ahead.

That's an interesting point. Of course, I agree that a few English dubs are, in fact, better than the Japanese. Princess Mononoke is probably the only example I can think of offhand, but I did notice really bad dubbing in another series, that really bothered me.. Well not "another" series, as that was a movie, but point is, I've seen bad Japanese dubbing, and good English dubbing. Obviously it exists. However, more often than not, the Japanese is far superior to the English. I find that, often, the Japanese is almost better suited for the scenes. What I mean is that, for example, where the dialogue includes only a few words, or a great many words, in one language, it's hard to translate it in such a way as to preserve how long the character is speaking for. It is designed and structured for the Japanese language dialogue, and not for the English or the French. As a result, many times the English dubbing needs to compensate by changing {sometimes arguably significantly} the dialogue.

Granted, Subtitles can have similar problems, but I have found that they generally don't, if you find a good subber, and/or if it's the official subs.

And we can't forget to factor in the "over fascination" with western culture, which many Japanese have, just like many of us in North America have a tendency to glorify Oriental things. I think this might be a big factor in the Japanese people that claim that the English dub was better.

All that said, can you please give me some examples of series which are recognized by Japanese fans to have better dubbing in English?


By the way, to all, I don't mean to be a snob about it. I'm actually having fun with this conversation. Just the same, I think I have good reasons to stick with the Japanese most of the time. I just think people are perhaps missing out on some of the things if they listen to it in English. The points I made about the connotation of the language and picking up on it, I mean very seriously. Now, sometimes the English Dub compensates by offering something the Japanese didn't. I can appreciate that, but I don't know if I consider that originally part of the Anime itself.

[Shadowalker]

I will stand by what I said earlier concerning girls in Japanese voice acting. I dislike how most of them are annoyingly high pitched.

That hasn't been my own experience with Japanese voice acting, but then most of the animes I've seen in English sub format where typically male-dominated as far as characters were concerned (largely since I tend to watch magical girl animes in English dub format when possible).

Not so. Some people leave a fandom because once it becomes mainstream, perversion of the series becomes all too rampant. It's because of fangirls that I personally would leave a series, unless I liked it too much. Yes, rabid, senseless fangirls are enough to drive people away from a series.

I agree with you there. In one particular instance, I actually found that some of the fans of a popular anime show actually made me decide to not watch that anime in the first place. The anime in question was Naruto - all the massive degree of ranting and raving over Sasuke turned me off from even getting into the anime.

And YES, I don't like lolicon/shotacon fans and especially how it's become more acceptable.

I tried to argue against lolicon/shotacon on a popular secular anime board once. I actually had some success, but there was a sense of push-back from a few folks. I think that the mainstreaming of lolicon/shotacon is a bit of a house of cards - I find that when you really examine it with a critical eye, even amongst lolicon/shotacon fans, it's not that hard to make it seem unacceptable (which is is, imo).

[uc pseudonym]

If you're a purist you're going to say you like manga better because that's where it starts, then you like the Japanese original anime, because that's the next level down and then the dub the least because that's the farthest from the original.

I agree but come out with a different conclusion. When the manga is the first version of the story, the anime isn't original at all, regradless of language. It's an interpretation of the lines just as much as the American dub is. There have been times when the anime not only plays a scene differently than I interpreted it, it plays it differently than I think the author meant.

All that said, can you please give me some examples of series which are recognized by Japanese fans to have better dubbing in English?

By Japanese fans? I'm not sure there's any data on that.

But here's the odd thing: you hate the Naruto dub, but it's generally considered one of the best. In terms of accuracy and quality, not how annoying the voices are. Frankly, I think the Japanese voices are just as irritating.

Another series I would submit: Cowboy Bebop. I watched some episodes subbed, some dubbed, both professionally. The dub changed lines and added things... and I think this is an improvement. While the dub is witty enough to keep my interest, in rewatching some of the same episodes subbed I found out a lot of the actual dialogue was rather bland.

For the record, I almost always watch subbed because I watch series currently airing in Japan.

[Fish and Chips]

:All that said, can you please give me some examples of series which are recognized by Japanese fans to have better dubbing in English?

Hellsing Ultimate. Hirano himself said it made more sense being in English, taking place in England and all. Not to mention the casting for the OVAs was spot on, regardless of what you think of Hellsing in particular.

Concerning the sub versus dub debate, I tend to watch series in both languages. The Japanese track, for all its intended nuances of the source language, is really only picked up by people who are fluent in Japanese. To me, it's the delivery that makes the difference, and it's here that I can see the preference, as some American dubbing is arguably pretty bad. But then so is some Japanese dubbing. I enjoy the English dub of the Read or Die OVA very much, but the Japanese voice work seems so cut and dry. There is no question in my mind which track is better in this case.

[Roy Mustang]

we can never truly bond by watching it together late into the night and giggling!!! (soap opera dramatics) because I will be on the other side of the country reading subtitles XP

I don't think you have to worry about me truly bond with people that want to act like the Elitists brunch.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Stephen]

As already mentioned, I was thinking Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing Ultimate.

[LadyRushia]

As far as subs vs. dubs go, while I almost always favor the original Japanese, I have found that the beginning episodes of most English dubs that I've seen have the worst voice acting; however, as the actors get more comfortable with their roles, the characters sound much more natural. One specific example off the top of my head is the Naruto dub. Whether or not it's a good or bad dub is a matter of opinion, but I've noticed that the voice acting in the more recent episodes is much better than the acting in the beginning (at least for certain characters).

The elitist fans who threaten to kill you if you watch dubs don't seem to understand that they wouldn't know about many of their favorite series without dubs.

[Tyrel]

But here's the odd thing: you hate the Naruto dub, but it's generally considered one of the best. In terms of accuracy and quality, not how annoying the voices are. Frankly, I think the Japanese voices are just as irritating.

Another series I would submit: Cowboy Bebop. I watched some episodes subbed, some dubbed, both professionally. The dub changed lines and added things... and I think this is an improvement. While the dub is witty enough to keep my interest, in rewatching some of the same episodes subbed I found out a lot of the actual dialogue was rather bland.

For the record, I almost always watch subbed because I watch series currently airing in Japan.

Yeah, I was making fun of the Naruto Dub simply because whoever does Naruto's voice in english really annoys me. I don't mind it in Japanese, though some characters can be obnoxious I suppose, but that's their nature.

For the record, Y'all should know I'm not one of them crazy elitist crazies. At very worst I'm a snob, perhaps. I just really like my experience with the Sub and original Japanese, and am not very fond of most Dub jobs. The reason I voice my opinion, is that generally I find people are missing out on really enjoying a series fully, because the Dub is bad, but they have decided they absolutely hate subtitles and are too good for them. I don't really mind, but I do try to persuade them that they are really missing out, because I think they are.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

Not to derail this conversation by actually posting something about the original topic but...

A lot of the stuff people have mentioned about fans so far bug me, but I'm going to group them in (slightly) novel ways so that it seems less repetitious.

One thing that really gets me is fans that use their fandom as an excuse to basically go crazy. Rampant immaturity at anime conventions is probably the most extreme example of this, but there are lots of other examples of fans in all sorts of crazy/stupid/messed up behavior with the excuse that it's "just harmless fun." (fanfics, anyone?) What happens in fandom doesn't stay in fandom.

One other thing that bothers me is how shallow a lot of "fans" can be. You know, judging shows on the basis of how attractive the main characters are rather than the quality writing or animation, having debates just to see their side win rather than actually learning something, that sort of stuff.

[Puguni]

However, if you mean to say that a show having a certain amount of fans you don't happen to like, then I probably thoroughly {though respectfully} disagree with you. I think that's one of the silliest reasons to start or stop watching/reading/playing anything at all. I mean, I don't care who else is or isn't watching Ergo Proxy, I enjoyed it. I don't care who else does or doesn't watch Arthur in the morning on PBS, I like that show, and having younger siblings, it's the perfect weekday morning show. I don't care how many people like "Fruits Basket" That show almost killed me with only one episode, and nobody can convince me there is any real redeeming factor making it worth watching.

You really haven't met many fangirls, have you? It's easy to shut out fanworks, but if you're truly interested in a series, it's almost unavoidable that you will run into fangirls/boys, most of which aren't interested in mature discussions. :/ Soon you'll feel your brain turn into mush, the acidity of their fandom so powerful. Lol, probably not. If was merely about whether a show was widely watched or not, I probably won't care either. Physical fangirls are scarier than ones you meet online because you realize that they are serious. I haven't met any in a long time though.

For the record, I almost always watch subbed because I watch series currently airing in Japan.

I confess, this is exactly what I meant when I only watched subbed, lol!

[KeybladeWarrior]

Yaoi fangirls....and lolicon fans. I dont know how those girls find some of those guys in yaoi manga attractive when the guy is gay and doesnt have attraction toward women. Lolicon fans are just plain creepy. Read Welcome to the NHK to find how some take it too far....

[KhakiBlueSocks]

[font="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="4"][color="RoyalBlue"]Fans that scare me? The Cosplayers terrify me and yet intrigue me!

I do have two tiny, tiny requests for the cosplayers. Hear me well, members of the Christian Anime Alliance:

If you weigh more than 280 lbs...Naruto Cosplay is not for you! Many times I've seen pictures online of people cosplaying as Hinata, Sasuke, Kakashi or even the knuckle-headed ninja himself. Ummm, that's just wrong, and quite scary! Just walk on by the ninja section...Here's a test--if we can see if you have an innie or an outtie belly button, change immediately![/color][/SIZE][/font]

[Tyrel]

You know... There are all these terms.. Cosplayers.. Furries.. fangirls...

I have to say, I don't actually know what all of them mean, and even the ones I kind of know, I don't really. Anyone care to explain what the different groups are?

[Radical Dreamer]

You know... There are all these terms.. Cosplayers.. Furries.. fangirls...

I have to say, I don't actually know what all of them mean, and even the ones I kind of know, I don't really. Anyone care to explain what the different groups are?

Cosplayers: People that go to cons/etc. dressed as anime characters. Not a frightening ideal in and of itself; it depends on the person you meet, I think. Some participate in skits where they act out scenes or scenarios as their character.

Furries: Generally speaking, people who have created an anthropomorphic alter-ego of their own, for instance, a humanoid wolf, fox, bird, what have you. Not terrifying at first sight, and not all are like this, but as I understand it, a certain sect of furries take it a step (or ten) further and the fandom gets disturbingly sexual, with some very bizarre spiritual beliefs on the side.

Fangirls: Fangirls range all over the place, usually loyal to the death to a specific series and/or characters that do not exist. Some aren't as bad as others, but the ones that are can get pretty annoying. XD

[ShiroiHikari]

OTOH, some animes have a less Japanese-centric feel to them. A lot of the magical girl and mecha animes are like this to me (i.e. it's not like magical girls or big giant robots aren't popular in North American culture as well), so I generally perfer to see them in English Dub format.

This is totally off-topic but I just had to say it:

Mecha anime is probably one of the most unpopular anime genres in the US.

Nevertheless, I see your point. I'm something of a sub elitist myself, but sometimes dubs are just as good, if not better. I think those are the exception, though.

Anyway, all the perversion among anime fans frightens me, but that's already been talked about enough as is.

My pet peeve is-- surprise --people who write off all mecha anime as "just being about giant robots smashing each other". Maybe there are some series like that, but a lot of the time, the stories are more about the people piloting the mecha than the mecha themselves.

[Myoti]

Since 'furry' has been brought up (and most everything on the anime freaks has been mentioned):

Fans that insist on pointing out every 'furry' instance they manage to find in any video game, TV show, anime, book, or commercial, despite the fact that the creators of such things likely have nothing to do with (or even knowledge of) the furry 'fandom.'

Being someone that refers to himself as 'furry' I could go on for a bit about it, but really, as long as they don't "Take it too seriously," most of 'em aren't that bad (and if they do, it just generates 'lulz' for the rest of us). :V



Oh yeah, and Smash Bros. Tourney[freaks]:

NO ITEMS. FOX ONLY. FINAL DESTINATION. >8C



*EDIT: Actually, strike that. No fans really 'scare' me. They just boggle my mind and/or cause a great source of humor and facepalming.

[KhakiBlueSocks]

[quote="Radical Dreamer (post: 1190049)"]Cosplayers: People that go to cons/etc. dressed as anime characters. Not a frightening ideal in and of itself]

You haven't seen the pictures of "Man-Faye" floating around the 'net, have you?

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Since 'furry' has been brought up (and most everything on the anime freaks has been mentioned):

Fans that insist on pointing out every 'furry' instance they manage to find in any video game, TV show, anime, book, or commercial, despite the fact that the creators of such things likely have nothing to do with (or even knowledge of) the furry 'fandom.'

Ah, erm... I uh... I kind of [SIZE="2"]do this with[/SIZE] [SIZE="1"]macs...[/SIZE]



[size="0"]We call it macspotting...[/size]

[Debitt]

You haven't seen the pictures of "Man-Faye" floating around the 'net, have you?

Your post wasn't directed at me, but I'm curious how having/not having seen Man-Faye bears any relevance to that particular definition of cosplayers. >>

[uc pseudonym]

Your post wasn't directed at me, but I'm curious how having/not having seen Man-Faye bears any relevance to that particular definition of cosplayers. >>

I imagine it was said in jest, related simply to the word "frightening." That or he actually believes Man-Faye is the ideal of all cosplayers. Unless he means to suggest that you need to gain some weight to meet this ideal (now I have terrible images of Fat!Agito in my head) I doubt he meant any offense.

[Shadowalker]

This is totally off-topic but I just had to say it:

Mecha anime is probably one of the most unpopular anime genres in the US.

Nevertheless, I see your point. I'm something of a sub elitist myself, but sometimes dubs are just as good, if not better. I think those are the exception, though.

Anyway, all the perversion among anime fans frightens me, but that's already been talked about enough as is.

My pet peeve is-- surprise --people who write off all mecha anime as "just being about giant robots smashing each other". Maybe there are some series like that, but a lot of the time, the stories are more about the people piloting the mecha than the mecha themselves.

You're right. Giant robots smashing one another is just the gravy - it's not the meat and potatoes of most mecha series', where the meat and potatoes tends to be thoroughly fleshing out strong, complex characters.

Along with a cousin of mine who's a big anime fan, I'm currently watching through the original Mobile Suit Gundam, actually. With that in mind, it's really cool that you have an Amaro avatar.

I very much like the character of Amaro myself. Char, and his sister, are two other characters that I like a lot from this anime.

I've also watched a bit of Gundam Wing, but I lost interest in that series just after the second Zechs'/Heero Yuy duel.

By "big giant robots being popular in North American culture", I was actually thinking more along the lines of cartoon shows like Transformers and Megas XLR than more clear-cut anime mecha shows like Voltron, or the Gundams.

[Tyrel]

Great, thanks for the answers... What about other groups? I mean, I gave those three as examples, but what about all of those names we keep hearing? There must be a "anime-freak dictionary" somewhere

[minakichan]

Hm~ fujoshi, otaku, otome, lolicon, shoutacon, maidcon, okamacon, meganekko, nekomimi, eroguru, futanari... are what i can think of on the top of my head.

If you don't know what some of those mean, it might be likely that you don't want to know, and don't look them up (particularly the last 2). I'm not responsible for the results of such ill-advised searching.