Illegal downloads: A HUGE problem for Liscened Anime

[ChristianKitsune]

Hey everyone! I just recieved an important email from Vic Mignogna's website.

Apparenly he starting a campaign to stop illegal downloading of liscened anime. Why you ask? Because it is seriously jeopardizing the US anime industry. Because people constantly download anime, it's really hurting the industry. And some companies are threatening to stop distributing anime altogether.

Here is the email I recieved:
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:35:23 PM

Subject: [vic_fans] IMPORTANT: Crusade to stop illegal downloading of anime

Hello everyone. I am going to address a matter that is important at
the moment. Right now the anime industry here in the USA is spiraling
downward. The closing of Geneon is a prime example of the shape the
industry is in. One problem is the excessive illegal downloading of
licensed shows.

So I urge you all...if you care about Vic..if you care about other
VAs, please stop illegally downloading these licensed shows or the
anime distribution in the USA could come to a halt. If you can't
afford a series there are alternatives to illegally downloading it.
You can rent it, borrow it from a friend or earn money some how by
either getting a job or doing chores around the house. Netflix is a
good site to rent anime off of.

I can't make you stop, but I request that you think about our beloved
Vic and the fact you are jeopardizing the very thing you love. If the
anime companies go under, what is left to enjoy?

Thank you for your time.

Pammy

This is the lady who runs the Risembool Ranger's website (aside from Vic of course) And she is pretty close to this voice actor.

Anyways, I just though I would post this. I am not sure how valid this is, (and I would like someone to validate or discredit this) but a friend of mine told me that Newtype magazine is starting to suffer from this as well.

So yeah... Thanks everyone! I am not wanting to start a debate, and I am not even sure if anyone is downloading anime at all. but I thought I would spread the news around but I don't want to see anime go away because of over-eager fans! That would be so ironic wouldn't it?

I myself don't download anime... (mostly because I am not sure I can trust it and I am terrified of losing my computer again).....

ANYWay! >_>

talk to you later, sorry if this is annoying or whatever....

[ilikegir33]

Yeah, I never download anime. I hate BitTorrent. Too...very...slow...

[Tenshi no Ai]

Anyways, I just though I would post this. I am not sure how valid this is, (and I would like someone to validate or discredit this) but a friend of mine told me that Newtype magazine is starting to suffer from this as well.

How would a magazine suffer? Well, then again their news is quite outdated once it becomes published, because of sites like ANN that give you straight up to date news. But saying Newtype would suffer, means people are ONLY buying it for a sample episode or two :/

[ChristianKitsune]

How would a magazine suffer? Well, then again their news is quite outdated once it becomes published, because of sites like ANN that give you straight up to date news. But saying Newtype would suffer, means people are ONLY buying it for a sample episode or two :/

XDD I have no idea.

I didn't really post this to step on anyone's toes either. I am not saying anyone on CAA DOES bit torrent things... but maybe we have friends that do?

*shrugs*

[Stephen]

Perhaps not ripping fans off might help stop downloading. Stuff like Geneon. I am bummed that Hellsing Ultimate is up in the air, but the prices some anime companies get for stuff...is just retarded. Same goes for some manga. If you were selling water for 50 bucks a bottle, would you be shocked if someone started using there buddies hose?

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I'll admit that when I used to download anime, a good number of the titles were licensed. Also I've kept fansubbed anime even after their licenses were acquired.

Though I must say doing so DID help me end up purchase an anime, lol. Nonetheless, it's wrong.

[Stephen]

I download stuff from time to time, heck. The first time I saw Hellsing Ultimate was on Youtube. Which, then I went on to pay Geneon like 35 bucks for each episode to come packaged with the most barebones bonus disk ever made. Lesson to be learned, you mess over the fans...it comes back to bite you.

[ChristianKitsune]

All true complaints and I wish it wasn't that way...:/

I watch stuff online (majority not liscened, of course, or if it is, its airing on TV) but I havent downloaded and most of the series I have viewed I plan to buy when they come out in box sets (I hate waiting for DVDS to come out indiviudally) I am still waiting for a lot of series to come out here in America, but I doubt they ever will. :/

I haven't watched a series that I don't intend to buy when it is finally released. I guess this is for those who just download and don't buy it when it comes out...

I think they are only talking about liscened anime though... is Hellsing Ultimate liscened?

[Roy Mustang]

I first one to be clear on this matter, before I say anything.

As a friend of Vic's, I just want to say that no one should get mad at him or have any bad feelings from reading this to him.

This comes from the fan club of site and one that I'm close to join because of some friends that I meet are members of it and I do understand the worry from fans.

As some people know that I'm not a big fan the downloading of liscened anime that comes over here. But I never had a problem with anime from Japan that hasn't been liscened over here yet or may never be. After all, if it wasn't for fansub's of Death Note and other animes, we wouldn't see them on Adult Swim right now.

But I have to point out something.

Right now the anime industry here in the USA is spiraling
downward. The closing of Geneon is a prime example of the shape the
industry is in.

I'm sorry, but that is just panic from the closing of Geneon USA, because they bit off more then they could chew with anime titles that no one really cared for and bad marketing.

Geneon did have a few good titles like Hellsing, Last Exile and Tenchi and a few others, but other then that tell me what other titles did they have that people were buying.

The talk about the anime industry in the USA is spiraling is nothing but some anime armchair fans that think oh noes! Anime is doom in the US after Geneon USA closing up. The funny thing about it is, most of them that say that are mostly the ones that do download anime are liscened over here. Also as Geneon has left, another company has pop up.

I know fans are doing what they feel is right and I do support no downloading liscened anime in the US.

But I have a problem with the lets blame fansubers for the closing of Geneon USA. When the closing of it was because of bad marketing and planning.

ADV and Fun are making money right now and they are in the top. Bandai is int trouble, but again, its because of bad marketing planning and they just not hurting in the US but as Japan as well.

some companies are threatening to stop distributing anime altogether.

I have never heard any news about this. If a US anime company did that, wouldn't that put them out faster?

Now there was one thing that Japan has ask the USA for and was reported on ANN in Oct.

The Japanese government issued a formal statement of requests to the government of the United States on regulatory reform and market competition policy on October 18, and included a request for the United States to help stop the unauthorized reproduction and distribution of Japanese animation online. Specifically, the formal statement mentions the spread of Japanese animation and other materials on video-sharing sites and peer-to-peer file-sharing networks.

Also, Japan needs learn from ADV and Fun. If they really want to stop this, they should do the anime on the net for a small price like ADV and FUN has done. They could go and sub it and within a week of the TV airing date, put it on the net for people in the USA.

I think they are only talking about liscened anime though... is Hellsing Ultimate liscened?

Was untill the closing of Geneon USA.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Stephen]

I think it comes down, to what are people downloading for? I download anime to sample it. I would never walk into Bestbuy and throw down 22 bucks for something that I might hate. But, like with Hellsing (yes its liscensed) I spend a ton to get those nice metal dvd cases from Bestbuy. I don't agree with people downloading entire series without paying a dime, but at the same time...the industry has done it to itself. Rather then lower prices on anime, as near as I can tell...stuff is going up. Manga, Anime, you can't get much cheap thats for sure. I remember when I first got into anime, I got Trigun and Bebop off a website. They turned out to be bootleggs, but at the same time...charging 140 bucks for a single season show....you are asking for someone to come along and sell it cheaper.

[ChristianKitsune]

I first one to be clear on this matter, before I say anything.

As a friend of Vic's, I just want to say that no one should get mad at him or have any bad feelings from reading this to him.

This comes from the fan club of site and one that I'm close to join because of some friends that I meet are members of it and I do understand the worry from fans.

As some people know that I'm not a big fan the downloading of liscened anime that comes over here. But I never had a problem with anime from Japan that hasn't been liscened over here yet or may never be. After all, if it wasn't for fansub's of Death Note and other animes, we wouldn't see them on Adult Swim right now.

But I have to point out something.



I'm sorry, but that is just panic from the closing of Geneon. Geneon USA close , because they bit off more then they could chew with anime titles that no one really cared for and bad marketing.

Geneon did have a few good titles like Hellsing, Last Exile and Tenchi and a few others, but other then that tell me what other titles did they have that people were buying.

The talk about the anime industry in the USA is spiraling is nothing but some anime armchair fans that think oh noes! Anime is doom in the US after Geneon USA closing up. The funny thing about it is, most of them that say that are mostly the ones that do download anime is liscened over here. Also as Geneon has left, another company has pop up.

I know fans are doing what they feel is right and I do support no downloading liscened anime in the US.

But I have a problem with the lets blame fansubers for the closing of Geneon USA. When the closing of it was because of bad marketing and planning.

ADV and Fun are making money right now and they are in the top. Bandai is int trouble, but again, its because of bad marketing planning and they just not hurting in the US but as Japan as well.



I have never heard any news about this. If a US anime company did that, wouldn't that put them out faster?

Now there was one thing that Japan has ask the USA for and was reported on ANN in Oct.





Was untill the closing of Geneon USA.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

According to a recent artcile on ANN Funimation is actually not doing as well as it was last year...

Funimation's Sales, Profit Meet Lowered Expectations
Navarre Corporation reported its fiscal year 2008 second quarter results on November 7 and said that the net sales of its publishing segment, which includes the anime distributor Funimation, was down 22% but within expectations. The segment's sales for the period ending September 30, 2007 was US$27 million, compared to US$34.7 million for the same period last year. Navarre does not normally report Funimation's results separately, but the report did say that Funimation accounted for most of the segment's drop. One of Navarre's cited reasons for the drop was Funimation's product schedule, which is weighted towards the first and fourth quarters. Nonetheless, Funimation met sales and profit expectations for the quarter.

of course they were expecting this, but still...>_>

It might be panic, but Geneon had some pretty cool titles for a long time. Including: Haibane Renmei, Chobits, Trigun (under the name Pioneer but it was eventually changed to Geneon with more releases)

So to say that Geneon didn't have good anime is an excuse...in my opinion......

I dunno if anyone is panicing...I just think that it's an issue that many people are somewhat in the dark about... thats all. ^^;

[Roy Mustang]

It might be panic, but Geneon had some pretty cool titles for a long time. Including: Haibane Renmei, Chobits, Trigun (under the name Pioneer but it was eventually changed to Geneon with more releases)

That doesn't really mean anything, that was stuff that was a hit a few years back. Look at the titles they pick up from the last two years and tell me how many of them were good or ones that people even knew about.

A good number of the titles were Tenchi knock offs.

A like Steve said, the SE vols for Hellsing OVA were a rip off.

Rip offs and bad marketing = doom for a company.

Navarre Corporation reported its fiscal year 2008 second quarter results on November 7 and said that the net sales of its publishing segment, which includes the anime distributor Funimation, was down 22% but within expectations.

So they are not like that worried about it and that was only for the second quarter. That really doesn't mean that much, because any company can have a down quarter. Now if it was 22% down for a whole year, that would be another story.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[MasterDias]

Perhaps not ripping fans off might help stop downloading. Stuff like Geneon. I am bummed that Hellsing Ultimate is up in the air, but the prices some anime companies get for stuff...is just retarded. Same goes for some manga. If you were selling water for 50 bucks a bottle, would you be shocked if someone started using there buddies hose?

They can't really help on the prices however. Licensing and dubbing aren't cheap you know. And we still get better prices than Japan...

I'm sorry, but that is just panic from the closing of Geneon. Geneon USA close , because they bit off more then they could chew with anime titles that no one really cared for and bad marketing.

Geneon did have a few good titles like Hellsing, Last Exile and Tenchi and a few others, but other then that tell me what other titles did they have that people were buying.

But I have a problem with the lets blame fansubers for the closing of Geneon USA. When the closing of it was because of bad marketing and planning.

Geneon's problem (especially the last several years) was that they tended to license niche shows with limited appeal. I'm sure Hellsing/Last Exile/Tenchi/Samurai Champloo/RODtheTV and so forth were pretty successful but they weren't enough to sustain the company in the end. On the other hand, ADV has Evangelion, Funimation has DBZ and FMA, and Viz has various Shonen Jump shows so they all can afford to take risks.

But, while I don't thing fansubs were Geneon's central problem, I doubt they really helped Geneon's case in the end.

[ChristianKitsune]

ahh, my mistake, Roy ^^; I am not an economics person...

[Roy Mustang]

I just think that it's an issue that many people are somewhat in the dark about... thats all.

I understand that and like I said, these fans are worried and have their heart in the right place.

But I can't buy the Geneon USA closing as the apocalypse of anime in the states.

If that was true, then why would ADV and others buying some really big hit titles from Japan right now.

What I worry about in an economics sense, panic from some anime fans. If they start to fear that another anime company is about to go, then they may stop buying titles and then the backlash will hit the company.

Fear is one of the worst enemy of economics.


[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Alexander]

*remembers the Dreamcast*

That was a very scary time. And this is much more scary. It definitely is a problem, and one that could affect my major interest along with the subculture.

I already rent/buy everything I watch, but I know there's been a lot of illegal downloading.

I can only hope this doesn't go too far...

[Nate]

So many people overreacting and freaking out. Just because of Geneon closing up shop due to poor business decisions. e.e That's like saying the video game industry is dying because Sony didn't do so well financially a while back. No, it's because Sony made some dumb marketing choices and it hit them hard. The video game industry wasn't dying because Sony did dumb things, and the anime industry isn't dying because Geneon did dumb things. Geez.

Everyone has already said everything I would've said. Most decent fansubbers stop fansubbing after a series is licensed, and in some cases fansubbing creates interest in a series. Death Note. Naruto. Fushigi Yugi back in the day. Let's not forget ADV releasing the Sailor Moon boxsets of the first two seasons so far after its premiere on TV and after it was mostly forgotten.

And come on. Do you really think One Piece would've gotten picked back up by Funimation if it wasn't for people from Kaizoku Fansubs keeping interest in the series alive? "Save One Piece" was a group of people who enjoyed the fansubs and they were probably pivotal in the revival of the series under a new company.

And what about shows that will probably never be licensed? I downloaded Aishiteruze Baby on fansub, it's a fairly old show, and while the manga has been licensed here, the anime hasn't. I ended up not quite enjoying the show that much, but what if I'd loved it? Should I be denied the ability to enjoy the show simply because no American company wants to license it?

I'm not going to say this makes downloading fansubs okay. It doesn't. But at the same time this is an overreaction. It's not going to destroy the anime industry.

There was an outcry over VCRs back in the day, by the way, kiddies. Companies claimed that if people could record movies and TV shows off of TV with their own tapes no one would buy home movies or VHS releases of shows. How did that turn out?

[Roy Mustang]

This didn't come to me untill now and forgot all about this.

This was not talk about in the news from ANN over the Funimation's profit down 22% down for this quarter but meets expectations.

The reason for profits are down right now is, because of a few reasons.

A. HQ move in the quarter. Funimation HQ has been moved to a new and bigger site.

B. A new ERP system implementation was absorbing a lot of company resources

C. They bought a good number of anime titles in the spring and summer and some of them are just now starting to be release.

So, they have been doing more spending in this quarter then taken in profits.

Also, Funimation said in the press release that they are on budget and with the factors above, this is why they are not shock over the profit drop for this quarter.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[mitsuki lover]

1.The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is another example of a successful
fansubbed series getting licensed.

2.Agreed,just because one company goes belly up does not mean that it is the end of the world.

3.The even greater problem is people's freedom of speech on the internet.

4.No matter what there will still be people who will download legally or illegally just as there will be people who will continue to buy bootlegs.

5.There are always ways to buy anime cheap and legal.

6.The number of anime that will never be licensed in America is larger than the number that will be so there will always be a need for legal fansubs.

[ChristianKitsune]

Nate I believe the email was talking about Liscened anime...^^;

Ah, that would be some very nce reasons why they were down 22 percent XD;

I am not sure if it's overreacting per se....its just to let fans know..

[Stephen]

3.The even greater problem is people's freedom of speech on the internet.

Uh what? Dare I even ask?

[SnEptUne]

I am sure only minority of people would download licensed anime. Since I am not from the USA, I can't say for sure, but anime isn't that popular to begin with as far as I can tell.

Beside, it is very troublesome and difficult to find licensed anime for download.

But that has nothing to do with BitTorrent, it is a technology to help content provider, especially for people working for non-profit organization. Not everyone can afford to serve their 4GB DVD ISO image of their software online, especially when it is popular like Ubuntu LiveCD.

[Momo-P]

I am sure only minority of people would download licensed anime. Since I am not from the USA, I can't say for sure, but anime isn't that popular to begin with as far as I can tell.

I'm gonna have to agree, I don't think most people download licensed anime either. Unless the dub is way behind certain episodes, or the dub absolutely sucks, it's pretty hard to find the episodes. Granted there are exceptions (I know you can find the Tenchi episodes easy because I needed Sasami screencaps), but otherwise? Not really.

And really, how many fans DON'T buy the series? I've heard of people watching LOADS of series online and then like...burning them to disks and stuff, but how many really do that?

I know I download series to see if I like them. I mean, I don't live in Japan. I CAN'T PREVIEW THEM ON TV. After I watch them though? I usually don't watch them ever again. Either I love them so much I buy the DVD or I just don't watch them again. ^^; Maybe that's just me though.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

5.There are always ways to buy anime cheap and legal.

Such as? I don't know about you, but I don't spend 200 dollars a month on anime. How much have I spent on anime in my entire lifetime?

80 bucks. 100 If you count Christmas Presents for other people.

And really, how many fans DON'T buy the series? I've heard of people watching LOADS of series online and then like...burning them to disks and stuff, but how many really do that?

I used to do that. I still have stacks of cds with FMA, Naruto, Bleach, Monster, Full Moon, Boogiepop Phantom, etc. Granted I don't really watch them anymore.

But yeah, the ratio of "What I have seen" to "What I have purchased" is pretty huge. There was only ONE fansubbed anime I've seen that compelled me to purchase the DVDs: Paranoia Agent. I also bought Kino's Journey, but that was more of a semi-blind purchase.

[Roy Mustang]

I've heard of people watching LOADS of series online and then like...burning them to disks and stuff, but how many really do that?

That happens more then you think. When I work at one board, we had somone that did that. He would download all of this anime and manga that was licensed or non licensed and burn it to disk.

He would even talk about all the anime that he had, but all of it was stuff that he burn to disk. His reason for this was, he kept telling everyone that he was poor and just couldn't go and buy anime and manga like other people could.

Him and me use to butt heads a lot over this matter and really tried to get a rule on the board that we shouldn't give out links for sites that you could download licensed anime.

His case won out and one of many reasons, why I quit being there.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mutang[/font][/color]

[MasterDias]

I'm gonna have to agree, I don't think most people download licensed anime either. Unless the dub is way behind certain episodes, or the dub absolutely sucks, it's pretty hard to find the episodes. Granted there are exceptions (I know you can find the Tenchi episodes easy because I needed Sasami screencaps), but otherwise? Not really.

And really, how many fans DON'T buy the series? I've heard of people watching LOADS of series online and then like...burning them to disks and stuff, but how many really do that?

I know I download series to see if I like them. I mean, I don't live in Japan. I CAN'T PREVIEW THEM ON TV. After I watch them though? I usually don't watch them ever again. Either I love them so much I buy the DVD or I just don't watch them again. ^^; Maybe that's just me though.

If hardly anyone downloaded them, I don't think the various anime companies, on both sides of the Pacific would mention them. I don't have statistics or anything, but just looking around various boards, downloading anime still occurs quite a bit even after the particular series gets licensed.

And it's not necessarily that hard to find particular series after licensing. Even if a fansub group deletes the episodes, it's still almost certainly floating around the internet somewhere.

Such as? I don't know about you, but I don't spend 200 dollars a month on anime. How much have I spent on anime in my entire
lifetime?
80 bucks. 100 If you count Christmas Presents for other people.

But many do though. Just look around places like Anime-on-Dvd and calculate how much some of their collections had to have cost. And I know that some people on CAA have fairly large collections.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Perhaps not ripping fans off might help stop downloading. Stuff like Geneon. I am bummed that Hellsing Ultimate is up in the air, but the prices some anime companies get for stuff...is just retarded. Same goes for some manga. If you were selling water for 50 bucks a bottle, would you be shocked if someone started using there buddies hose?

Yeah, but we need water to live. And people would use their taps.

****

Buy boxsets, seriously. To buy each DVD of Samurai 7 from F.Y.E would cost $210. The Boxset is $100. (Though, the DVDs from Best Buy were $14 and the Boxset was $80

I downloaded and watched Haibane Renmei. When I get the money, I'll buy it. It helps that I'm limited with only 80 gigs of HDD space... XD

[Danderson]

And really, how many fans DON'T buy the series? I've heard of people watching LOADS of series online and then like...burning them to disks and stuff, but how many really do that?

1 way to find out.....YOUTUBE.....

But seriously, there are so many people who make (or try to make) amvs off of just about any anime series you can think of. I mean, they have to at least have downloaded the episodes they used......

Though techniquely, they may have bought the episode legally, though I don't know how you can do that nowadays.....

[Stephen]

Hey Shao. Bestbuy has 500 gig external harddrives for 120 bucks. *laughs*

[Mr. SmartyPants]

But many do though. Just look around places like Anime-on-Dvd and calculate how much some of their collections had to have cost. And I know that some people on CAA have fairly large collections.

I was actually challenging his statement when he said it's possible to get anime for cheap via legal methods. I for one don't think it's true, seeing that anime dvds are rather expensive.

Although "cheap" and "expensive" are relative terms, but that's just going too deep into the subject.