The "Windows VS. any usefull OS" thread.

[Mithrandir]

Yeah. Enough of you are bad mouthing me (or what I belive) that I'm gonna post this). If you can contribute something usefull (read intelligent) to the discussion, by all means do. But here's my take on this - as a PROFESSIONAL in the field. I don't wanna hear any more "My daddy says..." posts. Just personal opinions, OK?!?!

Computer Testomony:
I make a fairly decent living by providing support to people who use computers and (not to be arogent about it) are not as competent as I am. The Mac users, by and large, have issues that can be solved by changing settings, etc. The windows users (I WAS a unix/windows tech until I was forced to use OS X - then I became a mac guy. It's THAT much better) ALWAYS HAVE MORE PROBLEMS THAN THE MAC USERS.

It's statistics. I HATED/LOTHED the morons who were mac fanatics until I had to deal with those systems. Grudgingly at first, be I have become an apple supporter. (Yeah, I was wrong. I'll admit it.)

Yeah. One of these days people will stop believing that they actually have something intelligent to say on this matter, and start THINKING for themselves. Let me say this up front:

1. I live in the bay area, silicon valley.
2. I am a linux nerd.
3. I love video games.
4. I have a BS in Computer Science.

That being said, I used to be a windows supporter. Then I went into tech support. I'm not kidding, windows is absolute crap. It's like a pet rock. No one REALLY needs it, but everyone thought it was cool (early on) and jumped on the band wagon. After having been a...
1. User,
2. Tech support,
3. Re-seller,
4. Programmer
for these OSes, then going off to do my own consulting, I have reliazed that it's a bunch of marketing hogwash (I used to be in maketing, I can say that).

As I said, I was annoyed when I had to start dealing with Macintosh computers, but (after being FORCED to) working with them - I have decided that they are the best out there.


So yeah, go ahead, explain why a computer that runs windows is so much better than the one I'm using now. It's as fast as it was the day it was built, and it hasn't crashed in almost 6 years.

Go ahead. Let the war begin. But be aware, it's not wise to disagree with a mod...



(I'm kidding. You wont get banned for liking windows!)

[Omega Amen]

oldphilosopher, I just came here to let you know you have my support, and practically the whole College of Computing and the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering from Georgia Tech basically support your stance for the reasons you have just stated here.

I am in your corner, oldphilosopher.

*goes to oldphilosopher's corner with towels, water bottles, boxing gloves and a mouthguard.*

*starts giving a good pep-talk to oldphilosopher and then hops back behind the ropes.*

[Straylight]

This thread had to be done. Kudus to oldphil for starting this noble war!

As you can probably guess, I'm on oldphil's side here as well. Though I have no macOS experience whatsoever (although I occasionally have dreams about it), I prefer linux over windows greatly for the following reasons:

1) Very very customisable. I love the modular windowmanager system. You can change the look and behaviour of your GUI simply by installing or switching to a different WM. My favourite is Fluxbox, which loads up in about 2 seconds after you run the command to start it. Also, the guts of Linux is script based, allowing you to create all kinds of aliases and startup scripts. As an example, I have Fluxbox set up to open various programs and position their windows everytime I boot Linux.

2) Free. Getting mandrake just costed me 3 blank CDR's.

3) More secure.. there are very few Linux viri around, so it's less likely that I will be suddenly hit by a random virus just because of some lame Windows security hole.

4) Faster. When I run Windows, even though I have loads of memory, the hard disk is always croaking away. In Linux, things tend to run a lot faster, and it seems to manage the computer's resources a lot better. No surprises there, webservers that run Linux can stay running for months without crashing even though they have to deal with some hefty computational tasks (for example, databasing).

I wouldn't recommend Linux to everyone, but it's certainly the best OS for webdesign or programming.

[Mr. Rogers]

i used to have a mac but sadly, for the past few years ive been forces to use a windows computer because macs are still expensive (but in my opinion, what you get is more than worth it.) it was so nice and easy to use and ran well and only froze when i tried to play this one game (which could have easy been fixed but i didnt know as much about computers then as i do now.) ive noticed too, that most of the mac-bashers have never even really used a mac before.

[LorentzForce]

I'll keep mine simple.

Currently using: Windows/Linux dual boot.
Reason for Windows: Forced, job issues.
Reason for Linux: Better overall, in both performance and visual coolness per dollar spent.
Preferred OS: Linux.
Reasons for preferred OS: 1) Stability 2) Cusomisability 3) Free
Reasons not to use Windows: Unstable.

In the end, if I didn't have to use Windows for mapping in CS I'd use Linux all the time.

I am yet to touch Mac, though I am hearing good things about it, so I will when I get a chance.

[shooraijin]

Well, naturally, I use a Mac too. And when I'm not, it's usually a Commodore.

[Bobtheduck]

*exercises minimal self control*

*leaves thread*

*shakes fist at the program closing end button that cost him hours of work on OS 9.x and the lack of eject button that ate his CD and Zip Disk and almost cost him his project while mac fans still talked about how superior OS9.x was to Win95*

Oops...

*leaves thread*

[ShiroiHikari]

Lol...I almost forgot about Macs having no eject button...thing. I remember something about having to drag the CD icon to the Trash can to get it out...? But other than that...; _ ; Me want Mac, yes.

[Zar]

I'm thinking about buying a mac because thats what our whole graphic design department at my university uses. I've basically been a straight PC guy up until this point so I'm still debating the issue.
Those Macs are soo expensive, but they look awesome. (Ahh, what to do?)

[shooraijin]

> the lack of eject button

That's not unique to OS 9, that's just the way Macs were designed. Even on those that do have eject buttons on the CD-ROM, ZIP drives, etc., they're locked out in software while the disk is mounted to prevent damage.

If you have a Mac that does that to you, turn it off, and hold down the mouse button while turning it on. It should kick out any CDs, and any ZIPs and floppies (for an older Mac) that it has inside should also automatically eject if it can't mount or boot from them.

New Macs with the USB floppy drive options, obviously, are not Apple parts and have a "proper" eject button.

[Fsiphskilm]

But Don't AL

[Mithrandir]

Correction: The DRIVE has it, but the manufacturer may opt to not allow it to be accessable. To quote someone very wise: "This is generally construed as a feature." It's also very annoying, but that's why allenwrenches were invented.

[ThaKladd]

my dad says.... eh.. he don't know anything!!

anyway.. true about mac don't crash, I had a mac for about 4 years I think, and it never crashed until it got a internal harddrive problem or something - nothing wrong with the OS.

But for me, as an awerage computer interested boy, the OS does not matter. I care about the system to easily play every game, every file, every program without installing any patch or buying any special version for linux or mac.

Windows crash... maybe twice a year.. but I do not care - I just fix it again. Windows is easy to use, easy to understand, manage most programs and stuff like that easily and have everything that a OS should.... For me the security don't matter that much(windows has a firewall)- but for the people that has sensitive data, are afraid of viruses, hackers and stuff like that it matters.

Maybe I'll be surprised on the stability of the new mac's or linux - but I am pleased with what windows can show.

I dont have any other argument than - I dont care - and it's (almost) the only people who are computer fundamentalists, work with coputers, or love they so much that they only want the best - that cares. (by my thinking...)

But what do I know....?? I, myself used DOS until 1999...

btw. I use one older computer(P2 266) for all internetstuff and my better computer to everything else. That's better than any firewall, because the two computers are not connected and I don't care about the old one... the security problem fixed?

[madphilb]

> the lack of eject button

That's not unique to OS 9, that's just the way Macs were designed. Even on those that do have eject buttons on the CD-ROM, ZIP drives, etc., they're locked out in software while the disk is mounted to prevent damage.

Unless I'm wrong (not a native Mac user, sorry), isn't there an emergency eject hole in it like most CD drives have on PCs? (small enough that you need a streached out paperclip to fit in there).

I seem to remember having a disk get stuck in a Mac in Kinkos one time (the machine with the scanner didn't have the option to read/write PC disks, so my PC formatted disk was useless).

[shooraijin]

On all of my Macs except bryan, the "Big Mac" (my dual 1.25GHz G4), they have eject holes that work just like you say. Even my Apple servers have little eject holes by the CD-ROMs and the internal floppy.

However, bryan, my dual G4, is one of the mirrored drive door varieties and the DVD-RW is hidden behind a door that opens downwards when the drive tray ejects. I don't see any way of opening the door other than wedging a screwdriver in the crack (which would probably damage the finish), let alone a manual eject hole here. OldPhil and Eire's his-n-hers G5 systems didn't have one either IIRC (the drive door actually *slides* down to allow the tray out, which is really cool looking).

Pictures of the 7300, the near end line of the beige Macs (my second Power Mac; I owned a 7200 beforehand); and the MDD G4, and G5:

[mechana2015]

*Eep... my computer has thedoors over the CDs too. It seems I could pry them open easily.... I run XP... simplicities sake currently.

The really fun one is me friends PC(!). The lock thing button dosnt work, and we literally tried to pry it out... the funnier thing is shes using win95... still...

She sees the "Blue Screen of Death so often she made it a screen saver.

[TheMelodyMaker]

To me, every version of Windows seems to have its own strengths and weaknesses, but it depends on the hardware that it happens to be running on. Like I said in another post floating around the boards somewhere, I use a Windows 98SE/XP dual boot setup for my own computer. Some of the programs I use work fine under 98 and not at all under XP; and vice versa.

I've never used Linux or Mac OS, so I wouldn't know any better. However, I did once out of curiosity have a look at some Linux distribution sites; and I was so baffled by the number of different versions out there that I actually had a nightmare about trying to get it installed, hoping it was the right version, and never actually getting it right--and it looked just like Windows! (I have no idea what it actually looks like... ) Someday I may seriously give it a try just to see if The Traveller's Guide and my other applications will work with it, but for now--no more nightmares about it for me! ><;

*falls off soapbox*

[ThaKladd]

Eeeey I use dual win98/xp bootup also... and for the same reason as you

I am going to test linux in school this week...

[btboy500]

Time to put in my two cents. I currently run a dual-boot of Windows 98 and Slackware Linux 9.0. After over 4 years of using Windows, I converted to linuxianity after reading that it was recommended for people who are programming oriented. Well, after shelling out 3.16 bucks for a Slack CD and getting it installed up and running, I was extremely impressed with the stability and speed along with extreme customizeability. I setup a Windows Manager(IceWM was my choice) and I was all set. Also, the migration to linux was pretty much seamless because of the WINE implementation layer. I used Linux blissfully, until my family finally jumped on the broadband wagon and I learned that my broadband ISP(Bellsouth) didn't support linux at the time. The rep did say that off the record, linux was gaining marketshare at an accelarated rate and it'd only be a matter of time it'd be supported. So now, I am forced to use Windows, desperately waiting for the linux support.

[Link Antilles]

*Stands near a riot shield* Truthfully, I have no use for Linux or Macs. I'm a gamer, so I need Windows to run my games. Yes, I use to strongly dislike Windows and computers, 'til I got a new computer (during the time I join CAA) with XP on it. Yeah, yeah, XP is a resource hog, but my computer has plenty of recourses to feed it with. For me, it runs smooth as butter... yeah, of course there are glitches here and there, rarely though. My computer is nicely protected by a separated firewall in my network router and I don't use e-mail... so, what's a virus?, heh (and I do avoid outlook). And everything else use my computer for it does exceptionally well, watch DVDs, simple Photoshop, Word, listen to music, surf the net (yes, I do use Mozillia), and the other basic computer stuff like homework. So, in short, my computer and Windows fits me fine, after my customizing. I'm happy with what I have.

[shooraijin]

That's not exactly an unqualified 100% positive review there ...

[Master Kenzo]

Currently, I'm using Win2k. It's a balance between WinXP (resource hog) and Blue Screen Of Death OS (err...Win98). I'm trying to switch over to Mandrake Linux (on dual boot now), but I don't know if Steam is supported by WineX. I want CS - but even more NS. I would also switch over to Debian, but my video card is too new for even the latest release.

[shooraijin]

> I am not completely versed in the Macs, but I do know they recently released a completely new OS with no (or little) backwards compatablity

No offense, but this is totally incorrect. Classic actually provides a surprising layer of OS 9 and earlier application compatibility, even running System 6 and earlier applications -- I'm playing ZeroGravity, a game I remember playing on my best friend's Mac Plus, on my dual G4, and it runs fine (even the speed seems correct, although there's no sound since the old compact Mac sound chips are long gone).

There were some compatibility glitches in Panther, although certainly not to the point where large numbers of applications just quit working, and some patches to the apps and OS seem to have cured most of these complaints (although for a variety of reasons I'm staying with Jaguar).

[Bobtheduck]

Currently, I'm using Win2k. It's a balance between WinXP (resource hog) and Blue Screen Of Death OS (err...Win98). I'm trying to switch over to Mandrake Linux (on dual boot now), but I don't know if Steam is supported by WineX. I want CS - but even more NS. I would also switch over to Debian, but my video card is too new for even the latest release.

XP sure is a resource hog, but there is NEVER the BSoD... I haven't gotten it once since I've had XP. I worked on 2000, however, and it BSed every once and a while... BSed... hahaha... It's a joke, son, you're supposed to laugh. Anyhow. Out of Compatibility, Stability, and conservation of resources, if I can chose two, I'll chose Compatibility and stability. I get the best combonation of the two with XP... Compatibility is the most important one, so since XP is much more stable than any previous Windows, and can run pretty much all windows (but, unfortunately, not dos) programs, it's well worth it for me, and I can forgive the slowdown. Besides, when I run top priority stuff (like games) the slowdown goes away. Not that I really play games on here, but the rare occasions I do, it's good.

Hmm... I wanna get Simtower again... I loved that game... That's the Deist (aka "great clockmaker") type of "god game" (I know it's not really considered a "God Game" but for those of you that get my joke, it was worth it)... I just make sure I set it up right, and it survives without me... I can just get money on office rentals for like a day or two, and never run out after that.

[Mithrandir]

><

I got it. It's just *not* funny.

*groans*

[Retten]

Hmm my opinion the big problem with Mac OS X or LINUX is, software they just dont have as much to offer. One last thing I was watching The Screen Savers a couple days ago and they were comparing some laptops and they said in just pure speed windows is faster than OS X
*note I dont really like any operating software thats out right now*

[Bobtheduck]

So, for someone considering changing from XP to linux in a few years, what is the largest difference between different versions?

[madphilb]

XP is not as compatable as some make it sound. Much of the older hardware won't run it at all, and I've found quite a few programs that don't operate properly under XP (games specifically).

As for the BSoD, I hardly ever get them, and most of the time it's related to CD drives that aren't ready or something... and very in-frequently at that. Programs that crash, that I get a bit of (not too bad, depends on what and where).... my Mom's XP system on the other hand is plagued with crashing software.

A good portion of what I use on a PC is already ports of Linux software (or has a linux version), that or there are similar or better free software on the Linux platform to replace my Windows equals. A nice dual-boot with 98 will keep the gaming blues away for me.

And if the latest Ubersoft comic is any reflection of reality, you may see more and more software makers jumping off the Windows ban-waggon and starting to write for Linux

[Fsiphskilm]

To open the

[BishounenCookie]

Hmm my opinion the big problem with Mac OS X or LINUX is, software they just dont have as much to offer.

Au contraire, my friend. As a typical desktop user, I find that there is almost always at least one suitable replacement for my Windows ap for GNU/Linux. If not, there is always Wine. ^_^ Debian linux has THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of precompiled binaries for you to download and install with a few simple keystrokes. Sometimes if I need something, and I know what the program is, or sometimes I just imagine that maybe it exists, and I go, "apt-get install xxprogramxx" and.. Whoa, it really does exist! If something is not that obvious, I can simply go into my package manager and do a quick search to see what might suit my needs. I can update all of my current software to the latest bleeding edge version, by simply going "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade".

Here's my windows-to-linux success story.

I've always dabbled in linux a little, but not alot... I remember installing RedHat 5.2 on my old Pentium 200 and messing around with it a bit, although I was left mostly undocumented, as far as "newbie" docs goes. I had no access to the internet, and the man pages just don't cut it for me, usually... I played around with lindows-type things a little bit later on, and also did a dual boot of RedHat 7 (or 8, i forget) and WinXP once. However I still found myself constantly booting to Windows, because I didn't know how to do anything in linux and I never felt like learning.

A few months ago however, I said to myself, "I'm going to do this linux thing once and for all." No windows, no dual but, just plain linux. With a 97% full 40gig hard drive, and no alternative storage space other than CD-R, it was a nasty migration. I spent days burning, deleting, burning some more.. until I had freed a little over half of my space. Then I repartitioned, installed linux, and moved my keepable stuff to /home, fried the fat32 partition, and resized my /home partition. My first choice of distro was a poor one, Mandrake 9.2, but at least it got me into the game. I used it for the first month while I got the feel for linux.

Then I rid myself of drake and installed Debian stable, which I realized was grossly out of date. I immediately changed my apt sources to unstable/testing and upgraded to a 2.6 kernel. Contrary to what I was told by various people, Debian was actually a breeze to install. I used a 30meg netinst image linked from debian.org, though it's actually an unofficial image I believe.

I'd like to note that contrary to what alot of people say, linux is not simply "better" than linux just "because." It has its cons and pros depending on what functions you employ the box to.

And let's face it, not all open-source software is necessarily good or better than windows. (*cough, nautilus can be flakey just like explorer *cough*) Alot of linux aps are a bit lacking in the UI area, and usage is not always obvious, thus forcing you to actually *read* the readme's associated with programs. Be prepared for this.

If anyone is an experienced computer user at all, and has the time and patience to spend a few weeks becoming comfortable with a new style of computing, I would encourage you to give linux a shot, you probably won't regret it.

As for why I did it, well, I didn't actually have much of a reason. Maybe one day I just got frustrated with windows or something. I honestly don't know anymore. But I'm glad that I tried something different.