Falling Apart.

[Kiku]

yes kit, skylender is jay jay as in Devi jay jay ^^

doesnt that rock?

[RedMage]

God hates evil, to give in to temptation and give up is not of the lord.

No, it isn't. But we all do many evil things that aren't of the Lord. And none of them are beyond His forgiveness.

Hey red mage, i never knew you ask for forgiveness when you die...

You don't. You ask for forgiveness when you accept Christ as your savior, and your sins are forgiven once for all by His perfect work of redemption on the cross. God exists outside of time and knew every sin that you would ever sin before you were even born, and Christ paid the penalty for it on the cross.

[creed4]

this is not the place for this. people please lets not let do this here, Arguing isn't going to help Okami or any one else, lets keep this situation in our prayers.

[Radical Dreamer]

this is why i hate others so much... cuz they dont care...

Don't care? Don't care about who? You? I thought this was Okami's prayer thread. I thought she was the one going through a rough time, needing prayer. And now you're complaining because someone's called you out for saying something untrue and unhelpful? I already have a feeling that this thread isn't going to last a whole lot longer, but I feel like I need to say something.

First off, no, Christians that commit suicide do not go to hell. Murder is a sin like any other, whether it's self-inflicted or otherwise. And all sins are equal in God's eyes. If it were true that people who committed suicide went to hell, then EVERY Christian that's sinned would go to hell.

There was once a girl in my old highschool that was going through a really rough time. She had recently lost her brother to suicide, and her father a few years before. In her Bible class, a theologically off-base teacher told the class that she "knew for a fact" that everyone that committed suicide went to hell. She stood up and told the teacher, "I know for a fact that that's not true," and then left the room, which I applaud.

Secondly, when trying to comfort someone in their depression, you don't tell them, "Oh, God hates you because you hate yourself," or, "God hates people who commit suicide." That's a terribly backwards approach, not only because it's completely untrue, but also because it in no way helps the person feel any better. Our God is a God of love, not of hate, and trying to guilt-trip someone out of genuine feelings of depression is just...not right.

Anyways, I hope I haven't come across as harsh, but there were just some things I felt I needed to get out. Okami, I'm sorry your thread's been so derailed by this, and I'll be praying that you feel less stressed. Keep it up; stress like this doesn't last forever.

[skylender]

No, it isn't. But we all do many evil things that aren't of the Lord. And none of them are beyond His forgiveness.

Okami sounds like she is openly denying God to me "A lie.not the way"

You don't. You ask for forgiveness when you accept Christ as your savior, and your sins are forgiven once for all by His perfect work of redemption on the cross. God exists outside of time and knew every sin that you would ever sin before you were even born, and Christ paid the penalty for it on the cross.

Dude you're missing the point, what your implying is that i can sin all i want, and never ask for forgiveness...Jesus wants you to admit when you're wrong, to deny you've done anything and think you can sin and never have to ask for forgiveness is foolhardy....

[Kiku]

i have to agree with jayjay. you have to be as pure as possible to get to heaven.
in church yesterday, we went through a story that went like this:

a man believed in god, but was horribly greedy, and wouldn't give any of his money to the poor, while a poor man lived outside his house, and the only ones who cared for him where the rich man's dogs. then the two died, and you know what happened?

the rich man, although he believed in god, still went to hell.
and the poor man, who also believed in god, went to heaven.

[RedMage]

Dude you're missing the point, what your implying is that i can sin all i want, and never ask for forgiveness...Jesus wants you to admit when you're wrong, to deny you've done anything and think you can sin and never have to ask for forgiveness is foolhardy....

No, you're missing the point.

You ask for forgiveness when you accept Christ. Then you try to live without sinning as much as possible because it pleases God and He's commanded us to. But when we sometimes fail and sin (and we all will), we know that God does not hold it against us because the price was already paid by Jesus' sacrifice and that we have already been forgiven.

What you're implying is that we have to ask for forgiveness for each individual sin. The Bible says the penalty for all sins is death; as Radical Dreamer said, all sins are the same in the eyes of God. So it doesn't matter if the sin is murder or list or shoplifting candy. If I'm walking down the street, and I look at a girl a lustfully, then get hit by a car and killed before I have a chance to ask for forgiveness, do I go to tell? We'd have to conclude I would, based on your views.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Okami sounds like she is openly denying God to me "A lie.not the way"

Would someone who is openly denying God ask God for help as well as ask others for prayer? I think not. Once again, I think you're insinuating too many things that aren't true; both you and Kiku, really.

[Okami]

Oh God....look at the mess I've made. *wipes her tear-stained face with a tissue*

I didn't want to say the things said, I haven't wanted to do the things I've done....
I've been so desperately trying to reach out to people, my family and closest friends. Mostly not by words, but by actions and music. And it's come to this, because no one has given me the chance to speak my mind, get my thoughts straight. Either I get yelled out or the subject gets changed. And so I sit with all this poison injected by Satan, with no where to put it but the internet.

I hate isolating myself. From my friends, family, and God Himself. And it's only now that I truly realise, how many people do care for my individuality, whether it be online or off. I regret so much, this entire schoolday included. I can only pray the people I've hurt would forgive me, because I'm only human, a stupid, foolish, downfallen person.

*wipes her face again* And those of you who posted songs, thank you. God only knows how music rules my worship.

I'm so sorry....

I don't want to die. Not now, my life is so young....


By the name of Christ Jesus, Satan, get out of my heart, my mind, my life. Leave me.

Why have I turned my back on those dearly loved? WHY?!
I love you two with a love that knows no bounds, I've put my trust in you guys so many times before. Do you think...maybe tomorrow morning...we could kneel in the hallway and pray together? We never have before...and it might help...

[Kiku]

YEAH!

*trying to immitate a man* let's do it
X)

[Kitsune]

Oh God pal, I don’t know what to say…other than why? Please don’t think of this as trying to pressure you too much, but why, why haven’t you talked to me, have you not realized that my arms have been open from the very start, and have you not realized that if you didn’t want to talk to me, Ryu and my mom, and especially M-shell all know hands on what’s happening to you, they’ve gone through it, and are still in it. We’re all her Okami ready to help if you’ll just let us. It’s like Kiku said, you were the first person I turned to when…when M…you know, and that’s because I knew you would be there for me, and know I’m here for you, I wont let Satan take you away from me like he’s done with so many others I love, I’ll beat him back with a stick if I have to, to keep you safe, lean on me, I’m here, my whole family is here, Kiku is here, and God is here even if you haven’t realized it. Where do you think that idea about getting together once a week, for homework, bible, and re establishing our connection came from, it was God, even I didn’t realize that until mom opened my eyes, and I realized how truly wonderfully spur of the moment that was. And bud, to show that I trust you, you will be the first to know something I’ve been keeping locked up. At least once a month I cry myself to sleep, if not more often. I cry because I worry, about you, I’m afraid I’ll lose you too the monster known as depression. I cry because I’m afraid, I’m afraid that M-shell, and Mom will never be better. I cry because I miss, I miss my grandmother, our elementary gym teacher, my grandfather who remembered me, my life before depression. But every morning after I wake up and think of all the wonderful things that I have in my life, a wonderful family, no matter how dysfunctional, a brother who sings at the top of his lungs for no reason, a sister who is strong and brave even when the odds are against her, another sister who had those same horrible thoughts as you and prevailed, a mother who even though she’s in pain gets up everyday and goes to work or just comforts us kids, and a father who can brush anything off with a laugh and a smile. And I have friends, two of the most awesome friends a girl could ask for, two friends who she could turn too when times were against her. And now Okami I’m telling you this, you have the same, two friends willing to stick by you no matter what Kiku and I will stand with you, as long as you let us. And in closing I would like to say this, if you wont talk to me, talk to Ryu, she know exactly, and mean it, what your going through this same thing happened to her after she got back from Poland. So bud, be strong trust your friends, and trust God, and remember like said in Lets Roll! “We Stand together.â€

[RedMage]

i have to agree with jayjay. you have to be as pure as possible to get to heaven.

Then you've completely missed the point of Christianity. You're following some other religion, you just don't know it.

Try to be as pure as you like, you'll never be compared to a completely holy, sinless God. Spend your whole life doing good deeds, they'll never outweigh your sins.

Getting to heaven isn't about whether you were a good person. There aren't any good people. (Romans 3:10.)

Getting to heaven is about becoming pure through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - not about doing good things and avoiding bad ones.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9.)

"Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified." (Galatians 2:16.)

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:16-18.)

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved." (Acts 15:11.)

"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." (1 Cor. 15:2-4.)

Read your Bible, Kiku. It's all in there.

in church yesterday, we went through a story that went like this:

a man believed in god, but was horribly greedy, and wouldn't give any of his money to the poor, while a poor man lived outside his house, and the only ones who cared for him where the rich man's dogs. then the two died, and you know what happened?

the rich man, although he believed in god, still went to hell.
and the poor man, who also believed in god, went to heaven.

The story as it appears in the Bible never says that rich man believed in God. It's Luke 16:19-26. Again, read the Bible yourself and stop accepting what people tell you. But it doesn't matter. Believing there's a God by itself means nothing. Lots of religions believe in God. Demons believe in God. (James 2:19.) What gets you to heaven is knowing God personally through His son, Jesus Christ.

[Kitsune]

Crap! I posted too late T.T anyway plz read what I posted even though it was kinda late...and Yeah I will pray with you you know I will....and have your mom check her messages, and check yours too my family left an important message...Heh heh heh

[Okami]

Okami sounds like she is openly denying God to me "A lie.not the way"

You've got me backwords, Jay. That is "A lie. Not the way..." meaning suicide is not the answer, but a lie that Satan has put in my head, to end it all.

God is the only way in this life...

[Kiku]

redmage... stop, or ill bother you about stuffs...

[Kitsune]

I think dad just burned the garlic toast *goofy grin* sorry just trying to lighten the mood a little

[Kiku]

thats okay. i know your dad ^^ he's funny

[Radical Dreamer]

redmage... stop, or ill bother you about stuffs...

Actually, RedMage is one of the few people making sense in this thread. If you'll notice, he's backed up everything he's said with scripture. That's good to remember next time you hear your pastor say something that doesn't fall in line with God's word.

[Kitsune]

Thx You can see my post now right?

[Kiku]

Just Stop It! For God's Sake!

[Mr. SmartyPants]

redmage... stop, or ill bother you about stuffs...

Au contrare, how about you stop acting like a little child?

If you believe that you have to be absolutely, 100% pure to get into Heaven, well A. I guess we're all going to Hell. B. You missed the point of your own religion. (Like what Redmage said)

[Kiku]

what post kit? what's it supposed to say? (sum it up if you can...)

[skylender]

You ask for forgiveness when you accept Christ. Then you try to live without sinning as much as possible because it pleases God and He's commanded us to. But when we sometimes fail and sin (and we all will), we know that God does not hold it against us because the price was already paid by Jesus' sacrifice and that we have already been forgiven.

"And he gave unto Moses ... two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God." "And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables." Exodus 31:18; 32:16.

God wrote the ten commandments with his finger, what you're saying is, we can sin and the commandments don't matter anymore.

"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

Sin is breaking God's law.

The law of God is perfect, to break the law is to sin and sin is evil, and tell me friend, what does evil come from?

it is impossible to commit a sin that is not condemned by the ten commandments. the commandments cover the whole duty of man, nothing is left out...

"Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." Ecclesiates 12:13. "By the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20.


Yes jesus died for our sins, but that doesn't mean we can just sin for the sake of it...

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law. ... I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. ... Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17, 18.

Jesus DID not destroy the law, he kept it himself.

"The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23. "He shall destroy the sinners." Isaiah 13:9. "Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10.

You cannot break a law, and think you'll be saved, The Ten Commandment law is the guide we must use in finding our way to God and holy living.

"I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts." Hebrews 8:10. "I can do all things through Christ." Philippians 4:13. "God sending his own Son ... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." Romans 8:3, 4.

If I'm walking down the street, and I look at a girl a lustfully, then get hit by a car and killed before I have a chance to ask for forgiveness, do I go to tell? We'd have to conclude I would, based on your views.

I like your thinking, so i guess if i lust after a woman or rape a cow, and don't ask for forgiveness i'll be ok right?, so i guess i can just go rob a bank up the street, it doesn't matter, you're so right, i was mistaking my bad. i'll never ask for forgiveness ever again.

[RedMage]

redmage... stop, or ill bother you about stuffs...

What's that, some kind of threat? I'll stop if the people telling lies about my God and spreading some other Gospel different from the real one will stop.

Thankfully, Okami seems to be doing better, so I wouldn't think there'd be a need for people to "help" her any further with their misinformation. I'll be praying for her and for you.

[Kiku]

i didn't say that you have to be 100% perfect.

i said you have to try to be as pure as you can. im not that stupid!

[Kiku]

redmage... just stop it!

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Yes jesus died for our sins, but that doesn't mean we can just sin for the sake of it...

Do you even READ? Nobody has implied such a thing! I also don't even believe you understand what the New Testament is all judging by the fact that what you're saying doesn't equal to what Christianity is even about.

Christ died for our sins so that when WE sin, we don't HAVE to die (i.e. go to Hell). Yes we ask for forgiveness, but that doesn't take out the fact that if we're saved by God's grave, we're granted eternal live regardless of our sins.

[AsianBlossom]

*squeeze hugs Okami*

I'll be praying for ya; you'll get through this.

And you two who are still arguing: Knock it off already!! This isn't the debate forum. Who are we to decide what God does with sinners who commit suicide? I suggest that both of you stop trying to put God in a box and just drop the subject, or else this thread'll get locked and you'll both get marks against you, possibly meriting a ban. You got that? Good.

[skylender]

Do you even READ? Nobody has implied such a thing! I also don't even believe you understand what the New Testament is all judging by the fact that what you're saying doesn't equal to what Christianity is even about.

redmage is implying asking for forgiveness is no longer needed.

Christ died for our sins so that when WE sin, we don't HAVE to die (i.e. go to Hell). Yes we ask for forgiveness, but that doesn't take out the fact that if we're saved by God's grave, we're granted eternal live regardless of our sins.

Could that be why i posted the scripture that says that?

[Radical Dreamer]

Skylender...wow. Just wow. I can't even make a full reply to your post. I'm floored, honestly. Yes, God wrote the Ten Commandments. And have you ever lied (no lying)? Ever disrespected your parents? Ever been jealous of someone for something they owned and you didn't?

If you've ever done any of those things (along with any other sins I didn't mention), then consider yourself a sinner like the rest of us humans, please. And I don't know what's with all of this, "You have to be as pure as you can" to get into heaven business, because as far as I know, we're saved by grace, not by works. No human can be "pure". We've all sinned, and we all fall short of God's glory. I don't even know why I'm trying to discuss this. Clearly, we've gone beyond what makes sense and into a different topic entirely.