FullMetal Water Cooler (FMA chapter discussion)

[the_wolfs_howl]

Umm... Has MangaHelpers released the non-RAW chapter yet? Did I miss it, or is it still being worked on?

[uc pseudonym]

Ah, you must have missed it. I had read the chapter when I made my previous post.

[the_wolfs_howl]

I was afraid of that. So where do I find it?

[the_wolfs_howl]

Finally got to read the not-so-new-anymore chapter. I like the MangaHelpers version, but I think I like the ZOMGFTA version just slightly more. Still, MangaHelpers is a lot faster than ZOMGFTA ^_^

[spoiler]I really liked this chapter. There were quite a few moments, especially towards the beginning, where Ed almost looked...grown up. Mainly around the part where Winry was suggesting becoming Scar's "hostage," there were some parts when I almost forgot that Ed is still only around 16/17 years old (how old is he, anyway?). It's in moments like that where he really looks like his father.

I liked how the captured chimeras actually had more to them than "I'm a bad guy!" Arakawa-san really does a good job with her antagonists. And I must say that I really liked how Yoki has started being useful. I wonder if Arakawa-san had been planning this for a long time, or if it just sort of came up when she decided they'd be going to a mining town, and that was the obvious solution to their problem. It's rather like Gollum; even the despicable, pitiable ones have a purpose.

And then Al was pretty cool in this chapter. I like how he urged the chimeras to not give up (when, a chapter or two ago, they'd been fighting each other), and how he came up with the solution to the dilemma with Marcoh's group. It was such an obvious solution, yet I didn't even think of it till I saw the frame where Al kinda straightens up and says, "There is one way." And then I smiled, because I instantly understood what he was going to say. The knowledge that the armor is starting to reject his soul is a little frightening, but I think it's pretty safe to say that even if he does go through a rejection, his soul will be reunited with his body. It's a lot more certain and possible than it was in the anime.

And then the ending! It's always tantalizing to see what Father's up to, and this time is no exception. We know that he needs five human sacrifices, and that they're Ed, Al, Hohenheim, and possibly Izumi - besides the one he hasn't decided on yet. The thing in common with these four people seems to be their exceptional skills in alchemy. Ed, Al, and Izumi are able to transmute without a circle, and though the only alchemy we've seen Hohenheim do was that weird thing when he pulled souls out of his chest or whatever, I'd venture to say he can either transmute by clapping or without even moving, like Father. So actually I don't think the final sacrifice will be Marcoh or Kimbley. They're both good alchemists, but they don't seem to me to be on par with those who can transmute without a circle. I just had an interesting idea right now: What if the final sacrifice will be Scar? We already know Father's intrigued by his different branch of alchemy, and Scar's ability is quite impressive. Anyway, just a thought, because after Scar I can't think of another really good alchemist, unless it was Mustang.

Did anybody else notice the one frame on the last page, where Ling/Greed is lounging about with a couple chimeras? It struck me as odd that Greed would be shown when he doesn't say anything, doesn't really have much of an expression, and Father isn't really talking to him either. Is there some significance to this frame, or am I trying to read too much into it? Maybe Arakawa just needed another frame, so she drew Greed because he was the Homunculus most likely to be with Father.

Another thing I noticed with this chapter was that it wasn't quite as funny as some other ones. Usually, when I read an FMA chapter, I'm very serious on one page, and then on the next I'm bursting with laughter. But I didn't even really laugh with this chapter. Did you experience the same thing?[/spoiler]

[uc pseudonym]

[spoiler]Sacrifices: The reason I suggested Marcoh was because Lust explicitly says he is potential sacrifice material when confronting him earlier. While I would imagine people that have seen the Truth are automatically of value, from this line I have been assuming a sacrifice can be anyone with significant alchemical ability. Has anyone made any related statements concerning Scar? I hadn't even considered him.

Ling: I assumed it was just to show that he is currently hanging around with Father (hence under complete control of Greed and not on any sort of mission), but didn't think much of it.

As far as humor goes, I think that FMA is head and shoulders above most Japanese comedy. However, that means that most of the time I either find the humor mildly amusing or at least not annoying. So I'm a bad person to ask.[/spoiler]

[Fish and Chips]

[spoiler]Edward, Alphonse, and Hohenheim are probably ushered to some choice front seating for human sacrifices, having seen The Truth. Neither Father nor Wrath know that Izumi has also seen The Truth, so Father is probably basing her candidacy based off her alleged skill; granted, if he knew she'd already seen it, she'd most likely also be trumped up. It's still uncertain whether or not Marcoh is alive (for the Homonculi), making Roy Mustang the most probable fifth candidate.

I doubt Scar is anywhere on the list, as his expertise relies solely in decomposition, which he also arguably does not understand. He couldn't open the gates.

Arakawa is found of teasing her audience with snippits of things to come. My assumption is that if Ling appears in this chapter, he'll take center stage in the next.[/spoiler]

[MasterDias]

[spoiler]The thing with Yoki didn't necessarily strike me as being planned out for a long time, although I suppose it could have been. He's quite irrelevant to the overall plot. But I'm glad Arakawa''s making use of him regardless.
It's also interesting that the person to come up with the plan to fake her capture was actually Winry herself. Now that she really is involved, she's taking a slightly more active role.

Sacrifices: Nothing to really say that UC or Fish haven't already said. I also think Mustang would be a good choice. He's a strong alchemist and too much of a loose cannon to truly leave alive.

Humor: I've... never really considered FMA to be that funny. Amusing at best maybe, but off the top of my head, I don't recall ever laughing at anything.
I've always thought it was a pretty serious title.
[/spoiler]

[Fish and Chips]

Volume 17 cover.

[Fish and Chips]

Chapter 74 RAW is now available for your descriminating tastes.
[spoiler]Bit of a mesh of events, easier to cover in bullet-point.

• Edward seems to be dealing with Scar's brother's book for the next couple of chapters.
• Career services! Armstrong (of general fame) arrives at the capital and tells Bradly she knocked off Raven in order to take his seat. Bradley finds this amusingly commendable, oddly enough, and grants her the position.
• Bido lives!
• Greed (2.0) meets Pride, who looks rather dashing in that black suit of his.
• Speaking of Pride, Riza's find a unique way of telling Roy who he is.
• Flashbacks to Xerxes/Cselkces. Young father or young Hohenheim?

[/spoiler]

[uc pseudonym]

[spoiler]Quite a bit happens in this chapter, really. FMA can always be counted upon to move the plot.

I'm curious as to how Hawkeye communicated the message to Roy, though the basic method of delivery seems clear. What I really want to see is the dialogue surrounding this scene.

With any luck this flashback will be informative. I'm not sure which of them I'd prefer it to be, though my hope is still that Father isn't human.[/spoiler]

[MasterDias]

[spoiler]Well, it's young Hohenheim. Interesting. He was a nameless slave and the 'homonculus in a jar" named him and offered to give him knowledge. This flashback should explain some things.

Am I supposed to gather that the homonculus then is the current Pride? or not?[/spoiler]

[uc pseudonym]

[spoiler]I'm not sure either. It does have some of Pride's common features, but we don't know how it got its name. One thought that occurred to me is that perhaps Pride is the original and all further humonculus were derived from it. That would make him similar to the others but also substantially different, as he claims to Hawkeye.

You could also assume that the person Hohenheim is working for is Father, but not necessarily. It wouldn't explain why they look the same, at least. Hopefully answers will come with the continuation of the flashback, yes.[/spoiler]

[rii namuras]

[spoiler](Well, I'm not sure how far alchemy goes in these ways, but could Father have created a slave for himself by using some DNA mutation or something? Like a clone? As I type it out, I suppose it'd count as human transmutation, but since Father and Hohenheim are not quite human, maybe it'd be different? I don't know, just a thought. We'll find out sooner or later.)[/spoiler]

[the_wolfs_howl]

My thoughts on the chapter (don't feel like you have to read them if you don't want to):

[spoiler]I found it interesting that this chapter moved away from the goings-on near Briggs, but I was glad in some ways of the change. The last couple of chapters have been almost exclusively about Ed, Al, and the people around them, and I've been wanting more of Mustang and Hawkeye for a long time.
Well, I got that wish fulfilled. It felt very comforting to witness Mustang and Hawkeye just having lunch together and talking as friends without the tension of endangering each other's safety. And at first I thought that was all - Arakawa's way to assure the readers that the two of them are fine (though it would have been something of a waste of two to three pages of them just reminiscing). But when Mustang went into the bathroom and deciphered the hidden message Hawkeye was telling him.... I felt a thrill of excitement. And I actually tried to figure out the encrypted message myself XD I got "Selim Bradley is Homun," and after that got mixed up. It was nice to get a confirmation at the end that that was the message, though. I can't believe it - they did it! I couldn't figure out any way that Hawkeye could convey the knowledge of who Pride is to Mustang, but she did!
I wonder how Olivier Armstrong is going to play her cards, now that she's taken over Raven's seat. Someone behind the enemy lines.... And if what Buccaneer said is right, before too long she and Wrath will get in a fight. What a sight that will be *fantasizes*
I love every little tidbit we get about Hohenheim and Father, so naturally I was tremendously excited to get a glimpse into Hohenheim's childhood/teen years. I was struck very hard on page 30 with the amazing similarity between Hohenheim and Ed. They're not quite the same; I compared them and I think it's got something to do with the nose and cheekbones - Ed's cheekbones are more pronounced, and his nose is slightly upturned. Other than that, they're very similar (though in Hohenheim's last frame, he looked much less like Ed).
And what about Homunculus, the "little man in the flask"? I liked how Arakawa has made it be more like a homunculus in our world; I once looked 'homunculus' up in the dictionary, and it said it was a miniature, man-made human in a bottle. My first impression of the "little man in the flask" was that it was the thing that would become Father in the future. It seems to make sense to me, anyway: this creature advised Hohenheim and told him how to escape, and maybe in the future led Hohenheim to immortality (if he's immortal) and somehow formed a body for itself, which for some reason looks exactly like Hohenheim's (because Hohenheim gave it the blood that brought it to life?). I personally find that idea to make more sense than the little black ball being Pride; I got a sense that the creature had a great, evil plan forming in its mind, and it planned to use Hohenheim to achieve its ends. Not the sort of person who'd follow orders. Naturally, I could be wrong, but this is just what I think. I wonder who Hohenheim's master was, to have made something like that. I hope Arakawa continues to tell us Hohenheim's story; it already seems exciting enough to make a novel out of.[/spoiler]

My predictions for next chapter(s):

[spoiler]In the joint training with the Central and Briggs soldiers, Mustang and the Elric brothers will meet up and join forces (secretly, of course), to decide what to do about Scar, Mei, etc. Mustang might also tell the brothers about Selim.
Olivier Armstrong will confront and fight the Fuhrer/Wrath. As for who will win, I have no idea.
And of course, we shall see the continuation of Hohenheim's story.[/spoiler]

[uc pseudonym]

I personally think they'll wait a while longer and pool resources, becoming involved with other conflicts at Briggs and other periphery locations. After learning just how massive their opposition is it wouldn't seem smart to move too quickly. Having Armstrong on the council is a good first step, but I don't think it's time for a complete assault.

[Fish and Chips]

I personally think they'll wait a while longer and pool resources, becoming involved with other conflicts at Briggs and other periphery locations. After learning just how massive their opposition is it wouldn't seem smart to move too quickly. Having Armstrong on the council is a good first step, but I don't think it's time for a complete assault.

In any case, they're still scattered across the country for the moment.

[spoiler]And I'm afraid any swordplay between Furher King Bradley and General Armstrong would keep the latter strictly on the defensive. Looking over details from the FMA universe, Bradley is undisputably ranked 3rd/5th teir out of the entire cast in terms of power level (and could still survive, if playing "Defensively" against the upper 4 echelons, though possibly not defeat them).[/spoiler]

[MasterDias]

[spoiler]Yeah, the enemy forces are too massive for the Elrics and their allies to do any sort of major assault at this time. Right now, they will likely have to be satisfied picking off individual elements of the opposition. Looks like they are (understandably) planning to take on Kimbley right now.[/spoiler]

[Fish and Chips]

[spoiler]Yeah, the enemy forces are too massive for the Elrics and their allies to do any sort of major assault at this time. Right now, they will likely have to be satisfied picking off individual elements of the opposition. Looks like they are (understandably) planning to take on Kimbley right now.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Zolf Kimbley is currently the most clear and present danger out protagonists face. Fortunately, they should have the reasources and manpower to deal with him fairly swiftly; the Elric Brothers, Scar, Mei, and the entire Northern Brigg's army under General Armstrong.[/spoiler]

[uc pseudonym]

[spoiler]I love systems and general random analysis, so I'm curious: how are you setting up your tiers? But I definitely agree that Bradley is up there based on his previous fights.[/spoiler]

[Fish and Chips]

[spoiler]I love systems and general random analysis, so I'm curious: how are you setting up your tiers? But I definitely agree that Bradley is up there based on his previous fights.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Essentially it's a question of feasible victory, so the 3rd/5th status comes from potential variables. I'm working out some of the kinks in the list, and will post it in full by the end of the month if not sooner.

The top tier is filled mostly by the Homunculi, as well as characters with one-hit killing abilities (Scar, Kimbley, Mustang). A few characters are variables, though, as their power roof hasn't been fully clarified yet. For example, "Father" could defeat ANY Alchemist and all normal human beings, but how would he fare against his Homunculi? Things like this need to be taken into account.

Interestingly, when dealing with Bradley's placement the question was not so much whether he would be defeated but if he could win. Bradley is strong, but he's also strategic, and I think he could play it on the safe side against the arguable 2-4 characters higher than him to survive, though him actually killing them is...unlikely.[/spoiler]

[the_wolfs_howl]

Oh, I had a question, but I forgot: Hohenheim. In the manga, he's often referred to as "VAN HOHENHEIM." Well, I was wondering: Is his first name Van, or is he "_____ van Hohenheim"?

[spoiler]Or maybe he's "Theofilatos Bombastus van Hohenheim"? [/spoiler]

[Fish and Chips]

Van is actually a Dutch word, translating roughly as "From the place of." So dubbing our alchemically inclinded friend Van Hohenheim would mean "He who is from Hohenheim"

[the_wolfs_howl]

Van is actually a Dutch word, translating roughly as "From the place of." So dubbing our alchemically inclinded friend Van Hohenheim would mean "He who is from Hohenheim"

...so, is Van is first name, or not?

[Fish and Chips]

...so, is Van is first name, or not?

Think of it as a surname prefix, a la' the Scottish Mac "Son of."

[the_wolfs_howl]

Think of it as a surname prefix, a la' the Scottish Mac "Son of."

Thanks for clearing that up ^_^

<< >> [spoiler]*whispers* You'll always be Theofilatos Bombastus to me, Hohenheim [/spoiler]

[Sapphire225]

I'm reading the manga and get the books from the library, but other people read the book to so I have to wait to get the next volume. (I got to the part where Wrath attacks Lin, no further)

[Fish and Chips]

I'm reading the manga and get the books from the library, but other people read the book to so I have to wait to get the next volume. (I got to the part where Pride attacks Lin, no further)

I assume by (Anime) Pride, you mean (Manga) Wrath.

[Sapphire225]

I assume by (Anime) Pride, you mean (Manga) Wrath.

Yeah. Sorry about that. I often forget that Pride is Wrath in the manga. Thanks for the correction.

[the_wolfs_howl]

Dude, is nobody discussing Chapter 75? What's wrong with you people? lol

[spoiler]I felt very gratified to learn more of Hohenheim's past. All sorts of suspicions about Father's identity have been swimming about in my mind, but it's nice to be shown, flat-out, what the truth is. And I kind of guessed before, somewhere in the back of my mind, that Hohenheim was the Philosopher's Stone, but once again it was nice for him to just come out and say it, beyond all shadow of a doubt.
My main prediction for future chapters based on this one: Hohenheim will sacrifice himself for his sons, using the souls inside him to restore their bodies.[/spoiler]

[uc pseudonym]

This was indeed an incredible chapter. Some of the non-discussion may be due to the fact that F&C and I have already discussed it some by other means.

As I said there, though, I was rather pleased with this development. My basic prediction about the relationship between Father and Hohenheim was correct. Personally, I hope he doesn't sacrifice himself for his sons. Not just because I like his character, but because that has been done quite a bit already.