The SUIKODEN Thread

[Tommy]

Okay it had 4100 HP.

UPDATE!!!!

I just beat Suikoden III. God, what a great game. If would've been better than Suikoden IV by far if you could use Viki a tad bit more. She sort of ocmes as pointless since you can only use her for one small point in the game.

Hardest Boss for Me: The last fight against Sarah. It took SO LONG to form a stradegy to take her down considering the other enimies that defend her. UGGGHHH.....

The last boss was AMAZINGLY easy. I was expecting some wicked hard battle like Great Tree (he was to me) but he was just a pipsqueak that took no effort to beat.

Now to compare since I have completed both:

Suikoden IV (7 out of 10)
The battle system was nice and completely different than the 3rd, or the 3rd is different than the rest. The story was sorta stale as well as the graphics. The character moved very swiftly making dungeons less aggrivating. Naval battles were fun but the maximum of ships versing each other was 3 on 3 which is sorta lame. The last boss was the only hard part.

Suikoden III (8.5 out of 10) Battle System was great. Sorta like a slower version of Grandia's. I love how just like in Grandia you can interrupt an enimies spell, but they can do the same, just like in Grandia. The story and characters were FAR superior to that of IV. Even the graphics were better and it was made before IV (obviously). The one annoying part is that the characters move very slowly and you spend alot of time crossing random fields over and over again to get to one town. Beats the slow-moving ship in IV though. The Tactic battles were sick, and towards the end they got REALLY hard. The music in this game is very good, and is tied with Suikoden IV. The whole game was spotted with difficulty.

So, I'm trying to decide which game to go for next:
Suikoden I
or
Suikoden II

Where I live, V is already rare...
And I feel sorta uncomfortable playing them backwards for some reason. Is I tied with II or is II far better?

[Tommy]

BUMPITY BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP!

I just purchased Suikoden I and I'm halfway through it.
It's been a year since I've played anything Suikoden0related, and this game really reminds me of last summer as far as gaming goes.

I plan on going for V and Tactics as well as Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (irrelevantly enough) on my next Gamestop trip.

Thoughts, comments?

[uc pseudonym]

It is an interesting coincidence that you revived this thread. I was planning to make one for Suikoden V when I logged on today, but this thread will be more than sufficient. As the previous sentence implied, I am playing the fifth game in the series (I may go for the fourth as well, we'll see). Various thoughts, questions, and comments follow.

Overall I am enjoying it. The storyline, though starting with pacing issues, is involved enough to interest me, the graphics and music are nice, and the combat system is fun enough (the omnipresent loading screen is getting on my nerves, though, as are pointlessly large town areas). So far it has been rather easy; I've been handicapping myself to make battles more fun.

This is via rental (more on that later) so I can't afford to play through twice or get all 108 Stars. Basically, I'm getting the ones that seem expedient, so there will be plenty I miss. Otherwise, I'm trying to level up the characters that I either think will be mandatory or have high potential. We'll see how well it goes for me; I plan to watch all the endings on YouTube anyway. Given the level of politics and characterization involved, I have sincerely high hopes for the resolution and consequently will be irked if it is less than satisfying.

For the large-scale battles, what does "Victory+" mean? Is there a "Victory-"? Just curious; the "+" seem superfluous. These and the duel sequences are interesting little additions.

Veteran fans of the game: anything I should really do or characters you think I should make sure to get? I'd like to get the most out of the playthrough experience. Just to tell you, I most recently finished the events in Kelcar (sp?). The city that Zahhak burns after the battle.

As I said, I'm renting this. I have these free rental coupons that can get you about 36 hours of rental if timed correctly (though I still plan to sleep, eat, bathe, etc, so I can't play all of that). To use these effectively I have to find a two day period in which I don't have to work or have other time consumptions. So far I've played one session like this and I hope to finish it next time I can get a free slot in my schedule.

[Tommy]

Ah, good to hear.

I haven't played Suikoden V myself, so I can't help you there.

I will say that if you enjoyed that one, I, IV, and III are excellent games as well.
I would say go for III, because I prefer that one of the three I've played through, but a more hardcore fan (everdred12a) says that's his least favorite so you should probably go by his input.

All I have to say is, of the three I've played, III is not only by far the longest and most epic, but the most challenging and most exciting RPG I've played in awhile.

I will say that IV is more addicting though.
The plot for IV is by no means epic and seems like they made I or II (my guess) with 3D graphics and was by no means epic.

Also III is the only Suikoden (except maybe II) where the lead character isn't a mute, innocent looking character that leads an army in a fortress.
Nope, each character has depth.

Plus, III to me, has the bst soundtrack, character developement, ect.

III is my favorite because I love epic RPGs and I couldn't have seen that working with Suikoden, but in III, they definitely pulled it off.

I guess hardcore fans hated it because it was different, but I thought it was a breath of fresh air.

One last reason I love Suikoden.
It's the only RPG series I have EVER played where the most challenging aspect was NOT bosses.

[everdred12a]

I would say go for III, because I prefer that one of the three I've played through, but a more hardcore fan (everdred12a) says that's his least favorite so you should probably go by his input.

Actually, I believe Suikoden 3 was the most critically acclaimed in the series. I'm still yet to get SuikoV, but I might do it this summer when I can get the money to buy it.

But uh, things I didn't like about SuikoIII:
1) 3 main characters
2) Branching "choose your order" style of story progression
3) Pointless party setup system
4) Short, like all Suiko games.

Things I didnt' like about SuikoII:
1) Short, like all Suiko games
2) Not enough memorable characters
3) Poor translation at certain points
4) Mute main character

So yeah, each game will get some criticism from me. But it was also the most touching in terms of story. Of course, I can't really say why without spoiling parts of the story, but hopefully you all get what I mean.

PS: The main character from SuikoV rivals Tidus as the hottest video game babe in the history of video games ;p

[Tommy]

Wait...aren't you a gu....oh, it's a Tidus joke.
It must be hard looking like Meg Ryan.
Poor Tidus.
Another thing for him to cry about.

Anyways, everdred, I recall you saying earlier in the thread (first page), you found Suiko3 the worst in the series.

I loved the 3 main character system.
Well, only if you do all three of one character and move to the next one and do it in a specific order.

I mean, of course these games aren't flawless, but as a series altogether, Final Fantasy can't compare.

This series should be more popular than it is. -_-

[everdred12a]

Wait...aren't you a gu....oh, it's a Tidus joke.
It must be hard looking like Meg Ryan.
Poor Tidus.
Another thing for him to cry about.

Yeah, as long as the main character from SuikoV is the one I think it is, then yeah ]This series should be more popular than it is. -_-[/QUOTE]
That's part of what made SuikoIII and on have much higher production values than I and II. Konami didn't expect the series to really take off, and that's why copies of I and II are more difficult to come by - Konami didn't make a whole lot of them.

[uc pseudonym]

It's the only RPG series I have EVER played where the most challenging aspect was NOT bosses.

What is the most challenging aspect?

Yeah, as long as the main character from SuikoV is the one I think it is, then yeah ]
He's third from the left: http://www.deafgamers.com/06screenshots_c/suikoden_v_pic4.jpg

I think he's alright, myself. Despite being technically mute, he has somewhat of a personality via the options you receive and general actions. While I'd prefer he talk, he's not really all that bad, in my opinion.

I mean, of course these games aren't flawless, but as a series altogether, Final Fantasy can't compare.

Hm, I don't agree. They are different kinds of RPGs, good in their own way but difficult to set alongside one another. You can compare apples and oranges, but it ultimately comes down to preference, somewhat.

[Tommy]

Um, UC, what I meant was that I find all the games above average thus uniting it as an above average series, but there were some FF games I easily found mediocre.

[MasterDias]

For the large-scale battles, what does "Victory+" mean? Is there a "Victory-"? Just curious]
If I remember right, Victory+ means you got a perfect or near-perfect victory(killing all enemies, not losing any or very many units,etc.) and will get a better reward. You get regular Victories if you don't do as well.

Veteran fans of the game: anything I should really do or characters you think I should make sure to get? I'd like to get the most out of the playthrough experience. Just to tell you, I most recently finished the events in Kelcar (sp?). The city that Zahhak burns after the battle.

Well, you might miss Richard(a swordsman who has an absurdly high countering and parrying rate), and Cathari(a sniper who is really fast and is equipped with the GodSpeed rune). The former is relient on two characters(Wilhelm and Mueller) who are missable and the latter has an extremely low time frame to get her and is rather out-of-the-way. Oboro's detective agency is also really missable if you don't do his sidequest, and you miss like 6 characters if you miss him.

Other than that, I only really have one tip. Make sure you have much more than just six characters at an appropriate level for the last dungeon as you wind up having to [spoiler]break up into three different teams.[/spoiler]
I found that a little annoying, and had to do some leveling of some characters.

[uc pseudonym]

Um, UC, what I meant was that I find all the games above average thus uniting it as an above average series, but there were some FF games I easily found mediocre.

Right]If I remember right, Victory+ means you got a perfect or near-perfect victory(killing all enemies, not losing any or very many units,etc.) and will get a better reward. You get regular Victories if you don't do as well.[/quote]
That was what I figured. I guess I'll stick to my current strategies, then.

Well, you might miss Richard(a swordsman who has an absurdly high countering and parrying rate), and Cathari(a sniper who is really fast and is equipped with the GodSpeed rune). The former is relient on two characters(Wilhelm and Mueller) who are missable and the latter has an extremely low time frame to get her and is rather out-of-the-way. Oboro's detective agency is also really missable if you don't do his sidequest, and you miss like 6 characters if you miss him.

I have Wilhelm and Mueller. Missed Oboro's sidequest, but I've been pestering him to join me every so often and I hope he'll agree eventually (like some of the other characters you have to ask repeatedly). Part of me wanted to give up on him because it is irritating to go back to Raftfleet periodically, but if he's tied to a lot of characters I'll keep trying.

As for the other two, we'll see if I can get them. I have a strong party, but if I need several strong groups more characters are better. What level is suitable for the final dungeon? Currently I have around 9 characters on my highest tier.

[everdred12a]

As for the other two, we'll see if I can get them. I have a strong party, but if I need several strong groups more characters are better. What level is suitable for the final dungeon? Currently I have around 9 characters on my highest tier.

There are two 'rules' if you will, that hold true for every Suikoden game I've ever played.

1) The game is 24 hours long. It may take you more or less, but the game will take about that long.

2. Your final level is 60. You can go past that, but as long as your party is about level 60, you're fine.

[MasterDias]

1) The game is 24 hours long. It may take you more or less, but the game will take about that long.

Eh, 24 hours long? I don't think so. I clocked in about 64 hours on Suiko V. Now, for an average playthrough, you likely can shave 10-15 hours off of that as I spent of bit of time leveling, did a few things that turned out to be wastes of time, and generally took my time on it, but the game never struck me as being shorter than an average RPG.
I'm quite sure that Suikoden III was about average RPG length as well, although I don't remember what my final playtime was.

2. Your final level is 60. You can go past that, but as long as your party is about level 60, you're fine.

This is true enough. Leveling isn't particularly difficult in the final dungeon, as low-level characters can gain tons of levels at once, but upgrading equipment can get a bit expensive.

I have Wilhelm and Mueller.

Well then, head to the end of the Waterfall Basin, south of Beaver's Lodge...
...and don't bring Jean or Zerase with you, or I think you will meet another character instead.

[Tommy]

I heard SuikoV is the most challenging.
I found Suikoden III difficult at times, but I think I and IV were VERY easy, but really fun.

[everdred12a]

Eh, 24 hours long? I don't think so. I clocked in about 64 hours on Suiko V. Now, for an average playthrough, you likely can shave 10-15 hours off of that as I spent of bit of time leveling, did a few things that turned out to be wastes of time, and generally took my time on it, but the game never struck me as being shorter than an average RPG.
I'm quite sure that Suikoden III was about average RPG length as well, although I don't remember what my final playtime was.

I said for every Suikoden I'd beaten. I've beaten 1, 2, and 4. They were all 24 hours long.

[Tommy]

I've beaten III an IV.

IV took me about 24 hours and III took me about 30.

[uc pseudonym]

The Rules:
1) Yeah, I think Suikoden V is longer. I'm at 40+ hours right now.

2) Ah, I have a bit to go yet. Characters jump levels once they reach a new area, though, so I'll be fine. I've been focusing my equipment purchases on the characters I'll want for the final dungeon, so they're doing pretty good (weapons at 14+ and decent armor). New equipment is certainly expensive though.

Well then, head to the end of the Waterfall Basin, south of Beaver's Lodge...
...and don't bring Jean or Zerase with you, or I think you will meet another character instead.

We'll see if I have an opportunity. Right now the game is forcing me through events. Which is irritating, because I know there's an event in Estrise (with Isabel and Mathias) and I hope I don't miss it.

I found Suikoden III difficult at times, but I think I and IV were VERY easy, but really fun.

Yeah. Though it hasn't been challenging yet, I've enjoyed it thoroughly. Except for the Twilight Forest... that place made me want to punch the game designer (I was probably more frustrated than I have ever been playing any game). Perhaps I'm just not good at seeing the paths, but it took forever to get through it. Back out was worse, for some reason, though I retreated from all the battles because they weren't giving me much more than 5 exp.

[Tommy]

I will tell you for a fact that Suikoden does have epic and difficult final boss fights.

Suikoden IV was an extremely easy game, but the last boss was one heck of a challenge.

[uc pseudonym]

Real life has interfered with finishing V (random stuff and I'll be traveling to attend a friend's wedding), so I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to complete the game. However, I believe I am a few events away from finishing, as I'm ready to take back Sol-Falena.

We'll see what I think of the final boss. I'm hoping I'll have all my good characters back together again at the end (which seems likely). They've been scattered, as I select my parties based on who needs to be leveled, but together they should be able to dish out some serious damage.

[Tommy]

Hey man, I had the 108th post.

Well at least you had the 108th response. XD

[uc pseudonym]

I had to rush (and consequently missed a number of Stars I'd have otherwise obtained) but I did finish the game. Around 55 hours and 80 Stars, which I think isn't bad for casual play. The final dungeon was a great deal of fun and the final boss only mildly irritating due to difficulty.

Having finished the game, I'm slightly disappointed with the plot. It was good, just not as elaborate as I was expecting. Before renting the game I read a review that said it had a number of shocking plot twists and I am honestly not sure what they were. It seemed straightforward to me; that's not my preference but not necessarily a bad thing.

We will see if at some later date (likely much later) I can play Suikoden IV.

[Tommy]

Knowing your tastes in RPGs UC, I would suggest going for III before IV.

[MasterDias]

[quote="uc pseudonym"]
Having finished the game, I'm slightly disappointed with the plot. It was good, just not as elaborate as I was expecting. Before renting the game I read a review that said it had a number of shocking plot twists and I am honestly not sure what they were. It seemed straightforward to me]
Well, people generally refer to [spoiler]Sialeeds' "betrayel"[/spoiler] as the game's plot twist, although it's far from the most surprising thing I've ever seen. While the plot could have been less straightforward, the only major complaint I had about it was that the villains were all pretty 2d and not all that interesting especially compared to your average Final Fantasy or Tales of... villain.
Some people also complain about how Lucretia was [spoiler]seemingly too perfect of a strategist[/spoiler] although that never really bothered me particularly.

I thought a lot of the main and supporting characters were fairly interesting though: your knights, Oboro's Detective Agency(which has a surprisingly dark past that is actually vaguely connected to the plot), the Raftfleet people, and poor Luserina who evidently grew up in a family of really obnoxious people and managed to keep her sanity...

[uc pseudonym]

Plot Twist:
[spoiler]I would have considered it a plot twist if they hadn't foreshadowed it with multiple scenes where Sialeeds talks to Dolph and numerous times where she seems suspicious. I'll agree that part wasn't just business as usual, though.

The villains didn't bother me that much because I was continually expecting someone else to be revealed as the true villains (I was wondering about Arshtat until we saw the flashback, and I half-expected the Sun Rune itself to be evil). Gizel is just typical and smirky and his father rather unimpressive altogether.[/spoiler]

I thought a lot of the main and supporting characters were fairly interesting though: your knights, Oboro's Detective Agency(which has a surprisingly dark past that is actually vaguely connected to the plot), the Raftfleet people, and poor Luserina who evidently grew up in a family of really obnoxious people and managed to keep her sanity...

Yeah, they did a good job with that. I liked Oboro's people among others. Mathias (he joins with Isabel) was pretty funny, I thought Luserina was a good character (if there was some way to make the Prince switch from Lyon to her, I'd have done it), and it is a shame Ferid wasn't a more major character. And as for Lucretia, well, I liked her. Smart isn't bad.

Knowing your tastes in RPGs UC, I would suggest going for III before IV.

Why, exactly?

[Tommy]

Are there ANY plans to make a Suikoden VI?!

Why, exactly?

The Suikoden games for the most part have weak stories, but fast-paced, fun gameplay.

Well, Suikoden III is slower-paced such as FF or Grandia games.
The effort put into making the game is much more evident in this game than any of the others.

The graphics look the prettiest in this one even in comparison to IV, Tactics, and V.

The story is much more emotional and deep and you see the story from three different characters' point of view.
The way the individual plots meet each other is also well thought out and the villian's identity is a SURPRISE!
Well, it would be if you've played the first two.

[everdred12a]

Are there ANY plans to make a Suikoden VI?!

My guess is yes. They're making games to cover the history of all the True Runes, and I don't believe they've covered all of them yet.

[Tommy]

It's just been awhile and there's NO word on a sixth.

I hope they make another Suiko game like III.

[everdred12a]

It's just been awhile and there's NO word on a sixth.

I hope they make another Suiko game like III.

No offense... but I think if they make another one like 3, I'll stop even thinking about playing the new games.

[Tommy]

Sounds like you didn't give it a chance.
III to me was by far the best.

[everdred12a]

Sounds like you didn't give it a chance.
III to me was by far the best.

I think I gave 3 a fair enough chance. I played until the point where
[SPOILER]you choose which character to give the True Fire Rune.[/SPOILER]
And I mean, if you have to play through what I'm estimating to be a good 1/3 to 1/2 of the game to get into it... then it's not a good game.