I have to get braces

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I have to get braces

Postby jon_jinn » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:34 pm

about a month ago, i found out that i had to get braces because my lower jaw is growing faster than my upper jaw. i wasn't all that scared about getting braces because many of my friends have it and they say that it isn't that bad. only at first. however, my orthodontist said that if the condition gets worst, i may have to get jaw surgery. :wow!: this, i am worried about. so, i was just wondering if you guys could pray for me. thanks.
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- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:30 pm

No problem. I had orthodontic work done for a grand total of 7 years (including oral surgery to get teeth pulled), so I totally know that while it isn't fun, it's tolerable, and you'll be better off for it in the long run. I'll be praying! :)
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Postby Tenshi no Ai » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:38 pm

I've still got my braces and jaw surgery WAS an option, but it was obviously turned down^^ Sometimes, it's not as bad as you would expect it to be (although I still apparently need to get 2 teeth knocked out next month >_<) but at least unlike my cousins, I don't have to wear the dorky headgear. Everyone's a little different. But, of course I'll be praying for the situation, because surgery in itself is a big issue...
神 は、 その 独り 子 を お与え に なった ほど に 世 お愛 された。
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Postby Rogie » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:11 pm

Went through the same thing as a kid, including the one jaw growing, one jaw not issue. I had to wear head-gear for a while at around 9 years old (I stayed home all summer for that) then had braces, a skin graft for my gums, and... well, you get the point. If it's any comfort, while the braces were on longer than anything else I went through, it was also the easiest part of anything I went through.

I'll pray. :thumb:
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Postby jon_jinn » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:18 pm

thanks for the support. i was a little worried about the headgear issue, because when i first saw it, it looked like some sort of torture device, but it doesn't seem that bad. the worst is probably when i would have to wear it around my friends. that's gonna be rather embarrassing...
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"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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Postby Rogie » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:48 pm

If you do have to get head-gear, I would suggest waiting until the summer to wear it (if you can). While your summer would be a little ruined, you could still isolate yourself since school will be out and maybe ask your better, more supportive friends to come visit you and hang out. I did mine during the summer and it saved me a lot of embarrassment.
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But sanctify the Lord your God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
-- 1 Peter 3:15
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Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:50 pm

At least your wisdom teeth aren't growing. ;)
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Postby jon_jinn » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:31 pm

[quote="Mr. SmartyPants"]At least your wisdom teeth aren't growing. ]

yeah. both my older brother and sister had to get four of their wisdom teeth pulled. one thing i don't really like is that my brother's engaged and he's gonna get married in the summer. i'm sorta sad that i'm gonna be wearing braces when they take all the wedding pictures. I feel bad because I sorta ruined the pictures for him. :drool:
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

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"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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Postby silver_wolf454 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:24 pm

I have bracesand the're not to bad after the first week but I'll pray ^^
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Postby Raiden no Kishi » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:52 pm

Don't sweat it. Here's a tip: take an Aleve about 15 minutes before you go in to get your braces tightened. It works wonders, believe you me. Getting to pick out colors is fun. Try getting them to alternate your favorite color and smoke. It looks really cool.

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Postby Tenshi no Ai » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:10 pm

Raiden no Kishi wrote: Try getting them to alternate your favorite color and smoke. It looks really cool.


??? ...say no to drugs!
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:51 pm

Raiden no Kishi wrote:Don't sweat it. Here's a tip: take an Aleve about 15 minutes before you go in to get your braces tightened.


Geeze, why didn't I ever think of that? XD That's a brilliant idea. XD
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Postby Raiden no Kishi » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:57 pm

Tenshi no Ai wrote:??? ...say no to drugs!


Not smoke as in "smoke cigarettes", silly. Smoke-colored bands.

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Postby Mangafanatic » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:26 pm

Don't worry. I had to have a pallet spreader (Basically, it's this crank device that they put in roof of your mouth. You crank it every day and it stretches the roof of your mouth and stretched it. And stretches it until one day the bone in the roof of your mouth actually breaks) and braces, so I can associate with having unusual othodontic needs. Let me just tell you, though, while it can be painful, it's TOTALLY worth it. If I had to do it all over again to keep my straight teeth-- I would. It's totally worth it, and you'll be glad you did it!

I'll be praying that things will go well for you!
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.

Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.

But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:30 pm

Mangafanatic wrote:Don't worry. I had to have a pallet spreader (Basically, it's this crank device that they put in roof of your mouth. You crank it every day and it stretches the roof of your mouth and stretched it. And stretches it until one day the bone in the roof of your mouth actually breaks) and braces, so I can associate with having unusual othodontic needs. Let me just tell you, though, while it can be painful, it's TOTALLY worth it. If I had to do it all over again to keep my straight teeth-- I would. It's totally worth it, and you'll be glad you did it!

I'll be praying that things will go well for you!



Oohh, I had to get one of those, too. Luckily, I was in second grade, so my pallet was still pretty soft, but I do remember that it did hurt pretty bad one night (probably the night it broke XD). But yeah, as I said before, it was definitely worth it. XD
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Postby Tenshi no Ai » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:34 pm

Pallet spreaders? Ow >_< Those things sound scary!! Glad I've just got the basics when it comes to orthodontistry...
神 は、 その 独り 子 を お与え に なった ほど に 世 お愛 された。
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Postby Mangafanatic » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:51 pm

Radical Dreamer wrote:Luckily, I was in second grade, so my pallet was still pretty soft, but I do remember that it did hurt pretty bad one night (probably the night it broke XD).



You're probably right. Since I was 14, everything was pretty solid by the time I got my spreader. One night, my mom cranked the thing and I heard this massive "Crack" and I grabbed the top of my head-- absolutely positive that the top of my head had either split open or was on fire. :lol:
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.

Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.

But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:31 pm

Wait.... pallet spreaders are supposed to break a bone in your mouth?

I don't get it. Anybody care to explain how this works?
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Postby jon_jinn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:25 pm

Mangafanatic wrote:Don't worry. I had to have a pallet spreader (Basically, it's this crank device that they put in roof of your mouth. You crank it every day and it stretches the roof of your mouth and stretched it. And stretches it until one day the bone in the roof of your mouth actually breaks)


oh man. i have to get something like that installed in my mouth too. but i think it's called "spacers". but from your description, it sounds EXACTLY the same as what i have to get. *ouch*.

Raiden no Kishi wrote:Don't sweat it. Here's a tip: take an Aleve about 15 minutes before you go in to get your braces tightened. It works wonders, believe you me.


that sounds like a pretty smart idea. i'll be sure to try it out the first time i go to get my braces tightened.
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"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:46 pm

jon_jinn wrote:oh man. i have to get something like that installed in my mouth too. but i think it's called "spacers". but from your description, it sounds EXACTLY the same as what i have to get. *ouch*.


Oh, no, don't worry. Spacers are little rubber bands that they stick between your back teeth so they can make room for the main brackets for the braces. They may make your teeth a bit sore, but it's nothing Tylenol or Advil (or, like Raiden said, Aleve) can't help. I think the things that Osaka and I had put in are called "appliances" in most orthodontic circles. Well, that's what they called mine, at least. XDD

MrSmartyPants wrote:I don't get it. Anybody care to explain how this works?


Basically, they put two brackets over your back molars (or somewhere in that general area), and in between those brackets is this...metal...well, appliance that has a little hole in it. You get a little "key", and each night, you put the "key" in the hole and crank it once, so to speak. When you do that, it makes the appliance spread apart, so basically, over the next several weeks, you're spreading your pallet so your teeth have more room.
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Postby Puritan » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:08 pm

Ugh, all these tales of appliances and braces are making my teeth and mouth hurt, and I've never even needed any of that stuff! I'll pray for you, Jon. I'm told braces are painful at times, and my Dad had to have jaw surgery and has told me stories about it for years (had his mouth wired shut for a month afterwards and could only drink liquid food), so I know it's not enjoyable. I wish you the best.
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Postby jon_jinn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:37 pm

Puritan wrote:Had his mouth wired shut for a month afterwards and could only drink liquid food


:wow!: *sigh* aww man!!... I SERIOUSLY do not want to have to get jaw surgery now.
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"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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jon_jinn
 
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Postby Rogie » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:24 pm

About the Aleve thing, be aware that you could be allergic (unless you've taken it before and were okay). Some people are allergic to that. Really, any pain reliever: watch out for the potential allergy. Or any drug for that matter.

Thus ends my warning about allergic reactions to medicines. ;)
Zar wrote:Praise God for all things awesome. Life ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But sanctify the Lord your God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
-- 1 Peter 3:15
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Rogie
 
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Postby jon_jinn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:03 pm

[quote="Rogie"]About the Aleve thing, be aware that you could be allergic (unless you've taken it before and were okay). Some people are allergic to that. Really, any pain reliever: watch out for the potential allergy. Or any drug for that matter.

Thus ends my warning about allergic reactions to medicines. ]

Yeah. it would be wise to be on the careful side when taking pain medicines (or any medicine actually). However, I do not believe that I am allergic to it because I don’t think I HAVE any allergies. But I’ve never taken Aleve. But thanks for the warning. :thumb:
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California


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