CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Who here on this site of oh-so-awesome people have seen Pokemon Best Wishes? Played the games of Black and White? What are your opinions? Comments? Do you have any idea of what I am speaking? Fans of Pokemon, there are going to be spoilers all over this thread. If you don't want to know, don't bother looking. Find out all you need to know about pokemon at:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page

Now go ahead and rave about the new pokemon adventures...
You can ask me questions if you want, but I haven't played the game. I had to ban myself from them this summer (plus it's only out in Japanese as of yet). NOW RANT

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I gave up on Pokemon long ago, when it became apparent that it would never end.

And Misty left.

I'm a big pokemon fan (points at screen name) but I really want the show to end too. Its gone on for too long.

that said, I'm very interested in the new anime season for one main reason. NO MORE BROCK!!!!! *jumps for joy* I've been waiting for them to ditch him for YEARS! Its about time!! I'm hoping they do something cool with Dento.

I will miss Brock, but only slightly. I definitely will not miss him loving every single girl he sees. At first I wasn't sure about the eye color change Ash has undergone. Although, after a few episodes I feel much better about this. The Pokémon are drawn more complicated than I am used to. Which legendary is your favorite? Zekrom or Reshiram? I like Reshiram. He has a majestic dragon like beauty.

Dango Dango Dango Dango Daikazoku.

*enters a state of bliss*

cough*Kotomi is the best*cough*

*excuse me for the OT Clannad moment*

I stopped watching Pokemon long ago and now that I hear they're getting rid of Brock I don't think I'll be willing to start it again.

It's one thing to get rid of Misty, it's another to get rid of Brock.

The Geodudes shall avenge thee Brock.

But Brock never did anything. He had no relevance to the plot.

Atria35 (post: 1428205) wrote:I gave up on Pokemon long ago, when it became apparent that it would never end.

I fully concur. It was fun when I was a kid, but after awhile, it seems like it's never gonna end. I don't have the time to watch it. XD

And now they're getting rid of Brock too? Dang. And I thought getting rid of Misty was dramatic enough... Wow. It's like it's gonna be a totally different show.

Rocketshipper wrote:But Brock never did anything. He had no relevance to the plot.

Being the best and most awesome character always has relevance to the plot.

Nate (post: 1430566) wrote:Being the best and most awesome character always has relevance to the plot.

Yeah, he always did seem to be smarter and more mature than Ash or Misty. Those two seemed much more kiddish and likely to pick fights with people, so I liked Brock the best. His endless crushing did get annoying, though... And Ash and Misty seemed to typically have more to do with the story line.

I think the first season or so of Pokemon that I knew as a kid would definitely be fun. I might start watching again for the sake of nostalgia, but I doubt I'll ever watch farther than that.

What I think is funny is at the beginning of this new series they stated Ash is ten. Ash has got to be twelve now. They even had a miny episode for a movie where Ash and Pikachu had a one-year anniversary. He pretty much has already lost a battle (mostly because he couldn't use pikachu's electric moves), thrown a pokeball at a non-pokemon, forgot he has to battle before catching a pokemon, failed to battle the pokemon properly (again), and met a legendary. Ash is acting pretty much like he did in the first few episodes, an arrogant know-it-all... they also changed his eye-color...

I'm enjoying Best Wishes so far. I do miss Takeshi though, and I don't think that'll ever change.

I do agree it's ridiculous to say Satoshi is still 10. Just stupid.

I love Mijumaru! What a cute little guy. Pokabu has also won me over.

I'm wanting to get Pokemon White at Christmas time.

to be fully honest, I would like to know when they get rid of Ash from the show. In my opinion, he's a terrable trainer. he clamed in the beginning of it all that he's gatta catch them all, yet he has yet to lift a finger to try to capture a legendary pokemon yet!



I give more credit to that trainer with the ryhorn in the first movie! at least HE tried to get Mewtwo!

and even more over, when May got Mannaphy when it hatched from an egg (technecly making it hers) he sided with the ranger in saying she should let it go! that really inferiated me!

I mean honestly Ash, just because you don't have the guts to capture a legendary pokemon, even if it was once (or twice) in you LAP, dosen't mean you must stop at nothing to make sure all cannot have a legendary pokemon.


rant over.

A88mph (post: 1433610) wrote:to be fully honest, I would like to know when they get rid of Ash from the show. In my opinion, he's a terrable trainer. he clamed in the beginning of it all that he's gatta catch them all, yet he has yet to lift a finger to try to capture a legendary pokemon yet!



I give more credit to that trainer with the ryhorn in the first movie! at least HE tried to get Mewtwo!

and even more over, when May got Mannaphy when it hatched from an egg (technecly making it hers) he sided with the ranger in saying she should let it go! that really inferiated me!

I mean honestly Ash, just because you don't have the guts to capture a legendary pokemon, even if it was once (or twice) in you LAP, dosen't mean you must stop at nothing to make sure all cannot have a legendary pokemon.


rant over.

Yeah, Ash! Why didn't you capture Lugia and the legendary birds when you had the perfect chance?! I mean, even though it would probably cause extreme environmental consequences and turn the world to ash, you'd still have an incredibly OU pokemon that everyone else abuses!

he clamed in the beginning of it all that he's gatta catch them all

That is actually a bit of a misconception brought on by the dub. its mostly the american advertising and the theme song that was full of the "gotta catch em all" message. Ash never said that his goal was to catch every pokemon ever, his goal has always been to simply become "the world's greatest Pokemon Master".

Ash really is a terrible trainer, though, just not for those reasons.

How so? Except for how the writers keep having him make rookie mistakes at the start of each saga for no reason (some speculate its because they want each new saga to be a "fresh start", which makes you wonder why they don;t just replace him completely) he's does well. He's shown some good stratigy in his battles since the first seasons, especially in DP, and recently he was strong enough to beat two legendaries used by an uber trainer in the league, something no one else in the league was able to do.

Maybe he's not a good trainer by the standards of real life competitive battling in the games, but the anime has established itself as quit different from the games many times anyway. If Ash is a bad trainer, then doesn't that mean pretty much *everyone* in the show is bad too?

When I say a terrible trainer, I mean in the sense of battling.

I wish I could find the "Ash gets a new Pokemon" flowchart, which basically amounts to the fact that any Pokemon that's strong, Ash sends to Professor Oak, with one exception. If it's strong and he can't control it, he keeps it. If it's pathetically weak, it goes in his roster immediately.

Also, although I'm only really remembering the original show, half of his badges, he didn't even earn. They were only given to him because he got his butt handed to him by the gym leader but he did a good deed so the gym leader gave it up anyway. So yeah, didn't earn them.

Not to mention (although this may have changed in D/P/Pt) he has NEVER beaten the Elite Four. Ever. I know he did win the Orange Islands tournament, and I'll give him credit for that, but never beating the Elite Four is pretty pathetic (again, unless he beat the Sinnoh ones).

Except for how the writers keep having him make rookie mistakes at the start of each saga for no reason

Yeah the "I'm Ash and I've fought against Legendary Pokemon and made it to the League Championships OOPS I LOST TO A WURMPLE IN THIS NEW REGION!" is pretty pathetic, which again, makes him a horrible loser of a trainer.

Red from the Adventures manga is pretty much a thousand times the trainer Ash could ever hope to be, and in a match between the two, Red would curb-stomp Ash with little effort.

Also, the creator of Pokemon died today. A bit off-topic but...just throwing that out there because it's a bit relevant to this thread.

Yeah, the show definitly had some flaws in how Ash behaved back in the early days. They have improved on that a lot though. Since the original Kanto series, he's only gotten ONE pity badge total, and even that was an arguable case (at Watson's gym in Hoenn, Pikachu was accidently powered-up by Watson's Raikou robot, to the point where it OHK'ed all of Watson's pokemon. Ash suggested redoing the battle after they found out, but Watson said since it was his fault to begin with, Ash should keep the badge. and they had a rematch in a later episode)

And he rarely ditches pokemon much now either. He leaves his team (except Pikachu) back at the lab at the start of every series now, but thats obviously for the marketing and "starting fresh" aspect, since they want to focuse on new pokemon with each new series. And it would be kind of boring if he never caught new pokemon or ever rotated his team. Obviously new catches are going to be weaker than his older pokemon, but they'll never get strong to begin with if he doesn't use them. He did give up his Gliscor late DP, but then it made a totally epic comeback in the Shinou League to help beat his Rival.

Sadly, he still hasn;t beaten any Elite 4 members. But then again no one else really has either. Only time an E4 member has ever lost on screen is to another E4 member or the champion. And he probably won't beat any in the near future for a while , especially since DP finally established that a trainer can't officially challenge the E4 until he wins a regional league. He DID, however, manage to beat all the Frontier Brains in the Battle Frontier during AG; the brains were established at the start as being "almost as strong as the E4" and later on in DP Ash met a trainer who had won 6 frontier symbols but gave up on the final brain cause he was too tough.

Yeah the "I'm Ash and I've fought against Legendary Pokemon and made it to the League Championships OOPS I LOST TO A WURMPLE IN THIS NEW REGION!" is pretty pathetic, which again, makes him a horrible loser of a trainer.

Thats a bit of an exageration. He never lost to a Wurmple ^^;;. But even in the instances like that, it seems its just the writers being dumb and inconsistant; he didn;t lose cause he made mistakes or something, he lost cause the writers keep resetting his power level so that he won;t be a "boring invinsible hero" plowing through everyone with no effort. It would make a lot more sense for them to just give us a new main character, who could *realisticly* be portrayed as a rookie, instead of having to keep going with Ash.


Isn't the creator of pokemon Satoshi Taijiri?

Shudou Takeshi was one of the writers for the anime in season 1, and an overall story supervisor till like mid Johto.

Rocketshipper wrote:And it would be kind of boring if he never caught new pokemon or ever rotated his team.

I don't see how never rotating his team is exciting. I always thought it would be much more interesting if Ash would keep hard-hitters in his party and occasionally change them up every once in a while, instead of throwing old Pokemon to Oak and only using a handful. I mean the dude has what, 30 Tauros and he's never used them? He can't even just release them? What a jerk.

Sadly, he still hasn]
Red has. ;D I know that's the manga but still. Ash never getting any better isn't interesting. I know you said no one else has either, but so what? If Ash is supposed to be such a great trainer, show it. At least have Ash put up a good fight against the Elite 4. I think Bulbapedia said he's never even managed to knock out a single Pokemon of theirs? They need to show him improving or SOMETHING.

He DID, however, manage to beat all the Frontier Brains in the Battle Frontier during AG

Well, okay, that is something. Still, have him face off against an Elite Four member and do some damage, is all I'm saying.

Isn't the creator of pokemon Satoshi Taijiri?

Shudou Takeshi was one of the writers for the anime in season 1, and an overall story supervisor till like mid Johto.

Yeah, you're right. Stupid me for trusting Twitter. I was browsing /vp/ and someone mentioned that Shudou Takeshi died, and I googled who that was and the first results were from Twitter with all of them saying "Creator of Pokemon dies." So I blame idiots on Twitter, and Google for giving me those results.

I thought it was assumed that he did release all but one Tauros. Ever since Kanto ended, they've only ever shown one Tauros in the "ash's pokemon" group shots or in the episodes where they return to Oak's lab. And he does stick with the same pokemon for a long time. Its not like his team is *constantly* changing (in fact there's some parts of the fandom that would probably preffer if he caught more pokemon and rotated his team all the time.) In 191 episodes of DP, his team didn't change much except to just catch more pokemon to fill the slots. only team changes was trading Aipom for Hikari's Buizel, and leaving Gliscor to be trained by a specialist.

One major thing I'm glad they have improved on is that Ash's pokemon can actually evolve now. Back in the earlier days it was like the writers were afraid of evolution; Charmander evolved and it became impossible to control, while the other starters and pikachu remained "plushies". Pidgeotto evolves the episode it leaves...Chicorita is his only evolution in Johto and it only got to stage 2. But now its a lot different; his starter and flying type evolved fully in AG, and he also evolved a Glalie and Donphan. Then in DP his flyer evolved fully again, and both the starters he caught made it to their finals stage (although poor torterra never got to do much ) I really hope they keep it up in BW. He's getting all three starters this time.

I think he's definitly improved, its just that he's improving in very small increments and subtly. (not surprising considering the lenght of the show). His accomplishments in Shinou were pretty good; beating his uber powerhouse rival shinji (A Silver expy) and defeating two legendaries in a row in his battle with Takuto, when *everyone else* who battled Takuto got swept by Darkrai.

Since they appeared, the E4 have really been portrayed as being like super god-like unbeatable trainers. I do agree though, I'd really like to see him hold his own against an E4 member sometime. he probably won;t ever beat the E4 till the very end of the show (what end?!?, lol)

i quit watching the show a long time ago, but i do love the games

At least in this last failed attempt after failed attempt at everything pokemon, Ash had some sort of good reason. Zerkrom took Pikachu's electric powers away for a while, which caused Ash to lose a battle with a presumable level five starter pokemon. (Radnomly off topic!) The tv series seems to skip around levels of pokemon and focus on the ability as a trainer there was only one reference to pokemon level in the entire anime as far as I know. You would think pikachu is level 999 by now seeing as he has been with Ash forever.

Ash also is overexcited about all the new pokemon, so he forgot he had to battle before throwing the pokeball, accidentally went for a human (the pokedex missled him:dizzy:), and startled the pokemon into fleeing. I also think the reason Ash keeps all his loser weak or hard to control pokemon is just to make this show more interesting. If he "plowed through every battle" without having to lift a finger this show would end up boring. Younger kids (being little themselves) tend to root for the underdog and like seeing the really weak pokemon become ultra powerful (at least I did). It also adds a comedy factor when Ash's own pokemon light him on fire, electricute him, punch him in the face, or bite him (small children live for cartoon violence).

I don;t think the show has levels at all, and when you think about it, it really wouldn't even make sense to apply levels to the anime. "Levels" are just a convenient measuring tool for determining the strengt of your characters in a video game. As your characters "level Up" the player knows that they are getting stronger and progressing in the game, and they'll be able to defeat the later enemies, who become progressively stronger.

But "levels" don't make sense in the relatively more realistic setting of the anime; it would be like applying levels to athletes in real life. How would you quantify that? And the idea of Levels like in a video game would only be limiting to the writers. Levels imply that once a pokemon reaches a certain point ( lv. 100) it can *never* get any better than it already is, which would make no sense, and battles would be too predictable, or they'd have to constantly contrive reasons why Ash and his opponent have similar level pokemon. And how would they keep challenging Ash? Unless they caused all his opponents to just get progressively stronger (which makes no story sense) Ash would eventually become too strong and there would be no more suspence over wether he will win or not (although, changing protaganists every series would help that)

In the end, I think the anime wants it to be more about skill and stratigy than about raw power; the people Ash battles over the series (with the exception of the E4 and Champions) probably don;t vary much in terms of the *raw power* of their pokemon, but they do vary widely in their tactics and battling styles and training regimes etc. etc.. And that only makes sense, afterall, there is really no story reason why the 8th Gym leader of a region should be stronger than the 1st. And obviously it wouldn't make sense to assume that the gym leaders of Shinou are stronger than the leaders of Hoenn, Johto, and Kanto, just because of the order Ash battles them in.