CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Well they say the second time you read/watch tings you get alot more out of it, and I know I sure am after watching Haibane again! So I have a few ideas about things, but I'll ask here just to see if I got them "right" on what other's opinions are on it (and as I said as the topic name, spoilers all the way through cause I didn't feel like making a million tags^^)

- Does the wall represent temptation? Since it should never be touched and those who do are punished.

-they say the bird in the well came in that form, so possibiliy it was human from where Rakka used to live? Or since it was "someone precious" and ended up forgiving her, could it have been God?

-When Haibane have those dreams I noticed a pattern: seems like they all end up showing how the person died (ice lake, river, falling, rocky pebbles on train tracks) so when Rakka felt lonely and "didn't want to be a part of the world" in her former life, did she try to commit suicide and ended up falling with the "precious person" trying to help her from dying? Since she ended up being sin-bound because of Kuu, seems like it also parallels her former life.

Someone once told me Rakka cutting her wing tips is supposed to represent her cutting herself. After seeing it again, I think they're 100% right.

Splitter 2.0 wrote:Someone once told me Rakka cutting her wing tips is supposed to represent her cutting herself. After seeing it again, I think they're 100% right.

Yeah someone mentioned it on here and didn't really think about it till I started rewatching it^^

If you like, there is significant discussion of all these issues and more at Sekai no Hajimari, the ultimate Haibane Renmei page.

" wrote:- Does the wall represent temptation? Since it should never be touched and those who do are punished.

I've not associated it with temptation so much as a barrier -- consider it sort of like the Ark of the Covenant (touch it, you die). It is set apart ("holy") because it is the barrier between the Haibane and some sort of reality they aren't supposed to mess with.

" wrote:-they say the bird in the well came in that form, so possibiliy it was human from where Rakka used to live? Or since it was "someone precious" and ended up forgiving her, could it have been God?

There are two theories on this, I tend to subscribe to the first. That one says that the bird was someone who loved Rakka (even though Rakka didn't know it), and may have even died trying to help her -- but at least intervened to let her know she was loved. That realization was what led to Rakka's forgiveness, the shedding of her sin-bound condition (tsumitsuki).

Other people hold the bird was Reki. Reki talked to Rakka in the cocoon, and let her know she wasn't alone. In a sort of karma-istic twist, of course, Rakka becomes Reki's bird (she even says so right before she goes into Reki's studio -- "I'll be the bird who saves Reki"). I don't like this as much, as it doesn't quite address Rakka's true problem -- the feeling that she should be erased from existence (e.g. the suicidal nature). Knowing that someone from her previous life cared for her was essential to her recovery.

" wrote:-When Haibane have those dreams I noticed a pattern: seems like they all end up showing how the person died (ice lake, river, falling, rocky pebbles on train tracks) so when Rakka felt lonely and "didn't want to be a part of the world" in her former life, did she try to commit suicide and ended up falling with the "precious person" trying to help her from dying? Since she ended up being sin-bound because of Kuu, seems like it also parallels her former life.

Great catch! Indeed, I too believe the cocoon dreams have something to do with each Haibane's death.

Whether Rakka is a suicide is a matter of pretty intense debate. I personally think she died accidentally, but wouldn't argue strenuously if someone insisted on suicide. I believe Rakka' death had something to do with water (from clues in Ep 1 - the tunnel of light under water; Ep 4 - the smell of the river reminds her of something; Ep 8 - the dream she has at the bottom of the well suggests a watery death; and the closing credits, where she is floating in water before she's become a Haibane).

But as I said above, I think this other person may have tried to save her, and may have perished in the process. Very often rescuers drown alongside the victims.

And, yes, you caught the Kuu parallel: in Rakka's former life she felt alone and abandoned; then when Kuu had her Day of Flight, she felt the same abandonment, to the point where she began making the same mistakes -- leading to her becoming sin-bound.

" wrote:...cutting...

I think I mentioned it when we were talking about the "most intense episodes" thread.

Cutting is self-destructive. Rakka and Reki, both sin-bound Haibane, show these and other self-destructive behaviors -- Reki smokes, for example. Ultimately, the worst self-destruction is almost achieved by Reki in the last episode, and is a replay of her suicide in her previous life.

Such a cool series... you can watch it over and over, and see something new every time...

I think Rakka's death may have been a combination of suicide and accident. Her dream indicates that she has given up, and just allows herself to fall while the crow attempts to save her. I would suspect that her death was intended to be some type of drowning or falling where she simply decided to give up rather than save herself. At least, that's my take on the matter.

^^ Agreed. Some folks think it was a fall -- I think probably a fall into water, maybe a jump -- also, near-drowning victims report a "falling" type sensation as they struggle with hypoxia.

ClosetOtaku wrote:I've not associated it with temptation so much as a barrier -- consider it sort of like the Ark of the Covenant (touch it, you die). It is set apart ("holy") because it is the barrier between the Haibane and some sort of reality they aren't supposed to mess with.

Ark of the Covenant... something else I didn't really think about^^ Not quite as extreme as Raiders of the Lost Ark though^^

ClosetOtaku wrote:Such a cool series... you can watch it over and over, and see something new every time...

Yeah I love series that don't have the most basic plot, nor have the most hard to understand. And yet, I tend to understand the harder plots more and question the easier ones (although in this series, there's just so many overlapping layers of ideas that you can think about...)

*bumped topic and made a double post to ask a new question, since no one else posted after me^^*

So I just started on the 4th disk (finally have time) and noticed somethign on the first ep:

When the Toga communicator was talking to Rakka, he was explaining to her about what happens to a Haibane when they cannot leave on the day of flight. How they become "not Haibane, nor human and live isolated from both" and RIGHT when he was saying that, the camera angled on of the different part's of his body, including the black "wing" on his back, and his masked face, which really doesn't seem to look human really... and with the fact that the Haibane Renmei are their own isolated group, and only the one even speaks, and they know so much about haibane and what happens... does anyone else get the idea that they were once Haibane that couldn't take the day of flight?

Tenshi no Ai wrote:When the Toga communicator was talking to Rakka, he was explaining to her about what happens to a Haibane when they cannot leave on the day of flight. How they become "not Haibane, nor human and live isolated from both" and RIGHT when he was saying that, the camera angled on of the different part's of his body, including the black "wing" on his back, and his masked face, which really doesn't seem to look human really... and with the fact that the Haibane Renmei are their own isolated group, and only the one even speaks, and they know so much about haibane and what happens... does anyone else get the idea that they were once Haibane that couldn't take the day of flight?

Yes. It is very likely both Washi and all who serve at the Temple are "failed Haibane".

Because it is such a sort of gloomy counterpoint to the overall Haibane story, it's not discussed much, it seems. But your observations are right on the money.

ClosetOtaku wrote:Yes. It is very likely both Washi and all who serve at the Temple are "failed Haibane".

Because it is such a sort of gloomy counterpoint to the overall Haibane story, it's not discussed much, it seems. But your observations are right on the money.

As said already above, I love how I'm finding more when I come back to this series^^ During my first viewing, I almost though of the confederation as a cult for the Haibane... but after rewatching it, I realized that they never really upheld the haibane as holy beings or anything, and within the town's rules, moreso humbled them, even a little lower than people really^^ But then again, most DO gain privilege of taking the flight outside of the walls...

^^ Agreed, another good observation. I feel the Haibane (at least the Older Feathers) are ever-so-slightly wayward children who left something "undone" in their previous life -- perhaps suicides, perhaps not -- but in order to have their "Day of Flight" they must overcome what they did (or didn't do). The challenge is doing so with little to no memory of their previous circumstances, save their cocoon dream. Rakka is confronted with her fears at Kuu's Day of Flight -- she is again isolated, wanting to be "erased from existence". Nemu, I believe, had to overcome her prejudices. I'm not too sure about the rest (we know what Reki had to do).

But in all cases -- the Town doesn't coddle, doesn't revere (except for a couple fangirls), but rather treats them as second class: they must work, they can't use money, they can't own anything of value. Sort of like a boarding house based on barter: you leave with the same clothes you came in with, no more, no less. It is therapy and rehabilitation and parole all wrapped into the same disorienting experience.

Such a fascinating series. And as much as I like the story, I also like the forest of unanswered questions that accompanies it.

Sorry to be gravedigging, but I just watched this and thought of an interesting observation: I think Glie is actually Purgatory. That's why the walls are deadly and you are punished. I agree that it seems as though the angels lived a previous life.
Anyway, I liked this series a lot! I think it's one of the best!

^^ Yes, a purgatory of sorts. I've actually compared it more to a foster home -- my parents participated in our county's Foster Parent program -- where children who have been neglected, abused, or otherwise not been given the sort of upbringing they need are given another environment (albeit one after they have died) to try to grow up in. It isn't "home", and others (e.g. Social Services or, in Guri, the Wall) have the final say in disposition, but at least it is a supportive, if sparse, set of circumstances. There are rules, and touching the Wall is one thou shalt not break...

But the Purgatory element is certainly there, whether you approach it from a Christian or Buddhist standpoint.

A fascinating series.