CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I thought this might be kind of fun to discuss. Who do you think is the evillest villain (or greatest, depending on how you look at it)?

For the sake of discussion, let me say that I don't think truly mythic figures can be detracted from, only added to or reinterpreted. So apocryphal references are valid in reasoning.

In other words, it's okay to say something like, "Gollum is the most evil because he frames Sam!" even though that only happened in the movies.

So... let us begin!

Ohoho, Raoh from Hokuto no ken *animes are ok right?* Ummm, besides from trying to conqure the world useing brute force and establish a crime leading cityhold. *Not to mention he is nasty when it comes to fighting* He also killed the one that he loved, he diden't belive in love and since the needed to experiense sadness in order to become stronger. He thought it would be a nice idea to kill her to experiense that, when he was about to he got to know sadness, but still went through with the act.

So Raoh has among other things. *spoliers*
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!!*SPOILERS*!!
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[spoiler="raoh"]
-Killed his master.
-Killed one of his brothers.
-Killed the one that he loved, who actualy was his other living brothers fiance.
-Killed a whole lot of others.
-Got a long way in conquering the planet.
-Tried to kill his living brother more than one time.
-Killed others that intimidated him in the past.
-Had nearly all the time been ambitional to become stronger, later discovered that he actualy loved one person.
-Pretty intimidating person. Extremely strong and pack quite a fighting style.[/spoiler]
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Among other things. Though I am not sure how many knows too much about him, I'd say he may be one of the canditates.

Here is a pic of Raoh in a more modern anime of the series.

Hmm this tough call here I need time to think about it.

silverSky

For starters, I would say Morgian from Lawhead's Pendragon cycle.

Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes followed by Macavity in T.S.Eliot's Cats.They're both described as The Napoleon of Crime.

:3 Iago from Shakespeare's Othello.

The great lord Temulin from the USSR!

Hey I liked Iago. :: Smacks Kokoro :: I thought he was a bit too mild mannered though.

I second Mega's wise nomination!!! Temulin should get the MEVA.

A few of Temmy's evil role models (does this have to be books?) listed in order of greatness (best at top):

Emperor Palpatine

Fairy Hardcastle (YAY!!!)

Jadis/Alias "White Witch"

Lord Feverstone/Alias "Dick Divine" (I LUVZ YA FEVERSTONE!!!)

Napoleon (the piggy one... from Animal Farm)

Darth Bane

Professor Frost

Maugrim (more of a lacky than a villain... needs to be a best lacky award)

Sauron

Machiavelli (Don't like him too much though... he's too nice.)

...... and many more I'm probably forgetting. These are just favs from books. If you want anime and movies I got a whole 'nother list... >:)

USSRGirl wrote:Napoleon (the piggy one... from Animal farm)

XD for a second I thought you meant Naolean Dynamite and I was like he isn't evil!

Mega.exe wrote:XD for a second I thought you meant Naolean Dynamite and I was like he isn't evil!

Ah but he is, he's just fooling us all....

Hmmm... now I know I've read about some good villains before but I can't seem to remember them. But I know my most evil villain nomination will likely to go a villain that seems completely normal, sane and rational. The ones for whom the ends justify the means. Even though they might have a good dream (e.g. peace) they are willing to do the despicable to achieve it (e.g. enslave the population or kill those who rebel).

I can't think of a specific villain but one of the worst cases of evil I've read is the social system of 1984 -- followed by Brave New World. Whoever thought up and implemented those social norms must have been very evil.

Johan from Monster is without a doubt, one of the most evil characters ever.

Also for the win would be uh... perhaps Norman Bates from Psycho? (Yes It's a movie I know)

Or perhaps Hannibal Lecter from the book/movie "Silence of the Lambs"

USSRGirl wrote:Hey I liked Iago. :: Smacks Kokoro :: I thought he was a bit too mild mannered though.

Hey, in my book a nomination here is a good thing! XD He gets it from me for style, not...er. Number of babies kicked.

Kokoro Daisuke wrote::3 Iago from Shakespeare's Othello.

Iago is pretty renown as one of the most totally debasely evil villians in all of literature. If you really pay attention, the way he manipulates the entire situation is as masterful as it is wicked.

I vote for Iago. And that was something of my response to reading him.

Arslan from the book of the same name. (my review here: http://pho999.livejournal.com/27180.html )

Yes, it is rather unnerving that his name is one letter removed from Aslan.

What precisely qualifies one villain as more evil than another? Certain most of us agree that the guy who wants to blow up the world is more evil than a bully who wants to steal the protagonist's cookies. But otherwise, how do we judge? The most sin they personally do? How much damage they cause? How much pain and suffering comes as a result of their actions? Plus, how many villains are there that want to destroy everything and how do you compare them?

I find some of this interesting to think about. For example, consider this: is it more evil to want to destroy the world or to enslave it? Destroying the world, presuming it is done quickly, causes massive death but relatively little suffering. But enslaving the world would lead to generations upon generations of pain.

In any case, I think that depending on the criteria there are a variety of different villains who rank near the top. There are plenty that want to destroy everything and have often already wiped out alternate universes.

Light Yagami second only to the great Temmy (It was pretty close tho' sorry Temulin-Sensei) Oh wait does Manga count?

Dr. Clayton Forrester.

Iago...not from Aladin...from Othello

uc pseudonym wrote:What precisely qualifies one villain as more evil than another? Certain most of us agree that the guy who wants to blow up the world is more evil than a bully who wants to steal the protagonist's cookies. But otherwise, how do we judge? The most sin they personally do? How much damage they cause? How much pain and suffering comes as a result of their actions? Plus, how many villains are there that want to destroy everything and how do you compare them?

I find some of this interesting to think about. For example, consider this: is it more evil to want to destroy the world or to enslave it? Destroying the world, presuming it is done quickly, causes massive death but relatively little suffering. But enslaving the world would lead to generations upon generations of pain.

In any case, I think that depending on the criteria there are a variety of different villains who rank near the top. There are plenty that want to destroy everything and have often already wiped out alternate universes.

Absolutely. And also, I think we'd do well to remember that this is also a book thread, so quality writing does help. I mean, sure, any Joe Wannabe Author can write -

...and Destron was angry. His power grew within him, and he desired all the world to feel his anger. Then come the bombs or dragons or evil wizardry, end of the world spiel.

The point: sure, it's about extent of destruction, but couldn't that be just a few lives, or one race, especially if someone's corruption was total? Their quality has to be real and believable, not just written somewhere.

from books: Voldemort. Anyone who's so scary people don't even want to say his name has to be evil.
from Anime: Naraku. no contest. He did win my most despicable anime villain poll. And Gendo Ikari from Evangelion is definitely a close second.
from movies: Verbal Kent in The Usual Suspects. That guy thought of EVERYTHING! Oh and Emperor Palpatine too.
from video games: (tie) Kefka and Sephiroth
from comics: the Joker. No one is craftier, crazier, or just more twisted than the Joker. The dude killed Jason Todd!

hmm... do comic books count?
because Magneto is by far the "best" villian in that case.
he's a villian who wants to fight a war with humanity not for simple reasons of greed. but because he barely survived WW2 and has seen first hand what humans do to those that are considered to be "different". He doesn't do terrible things for the sake of personal gain. he does them because, in his eyes, he's saving his people from a fate that he knows is coming. he doesn't want to end persecution of his kind, he wants reverse discrimination and wants to oppress those that seek to oppress him. Magneto is a great villian beacause his character is so well developed.

Gendo isn't a villian though.Unless your name happens to be Shinji.

Joker was voted as the number one villian on some special I think held on A&E on Superheros, villians and vixens.

Joker was voted the number one villian.
Catwoman was voted the number one vixen.

I don't know who was number one superhero, but my guess goes to the top three being Superman, Batman, and Spider the iconic three of all superheros.

I think Hannible Lector and the killer from Red Dragon are pretty evil. I mean the killer in Red Dragon were murdering entire families.

Kevin Spacey killer in 7 was equally evil.

Any person that was taking part of the sick things in Hostel is certianly evil. (ANd I haven't that movie but the thought of what some people do to others are simply evil to the demonic sense.)

What is even more scary is the fact that these type of people exist.

silverSky

Merlin in Twain's Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court is portrayed as somewhat of a villain at times as he sets himself up against the Yankee's agenda
for bringing the 19th century to the 5th.

Oh and in Malory Mordred is pictured as a villian even though he wasn't.

Despite my starting this topic, I haven't weighed in yet. Well, I have time now.

My vote:

Dracula.

In the original Stoker novel, Stoker paints him in every way as an anti-Christ figure. (Note Renfield, the anti-Baptist preparing his way.)

Also, I submit the scene from the movie Van Helsing, in which Dracula, upon being informed of the death of one of his brides, says, "Don't worry, I'll find a new bride!"

"Do we mean so little to you?" his surviving brides ask.

"I FEEL NOTHING!!" is Hollywood-Drac's response.

In between Stoker and Hollywood, Coppola's Dracula opens with the historical Tepes cursing God, desecrating a church as a crucifix weeps. He becomes a beast in every way, violating Lucy and Mina.

(Indeed, Dracula's evil works outwardly, corrupting Coppola's film as a whole; Lucy and Mina, whom Stoker portrayed as innocent in his novel, are both downright slutty in this film.)

White Wolf's Rites of the Dragon shows Dracula cursed directly by God for his oath-breaking. In response, Dracula infiltrates both the Lancea Sanctum (the vampire's version of Catholicism) and mixes Judeo-Christian theology with the teachings of the Crone (vampire Wicca) in an attempt to overrule God's curse.

In Elizabeth Kostova's The Historian, Dracula doesn't show up for, like, 600 pages and still manages to cast his shadow over the entire novel.

Dracula is in every way what Paul described as a "man of lawlessness." By his very existence he blasphemes God Most High, uttering boasts like the "little horn" of Daniel.

His evil is such that, while it should be obvious to all, it is instead ignored or even glorified. Note that in almost every modern telling of the Dracula-mythos, Tepes becomes the hero. (Kostova is unique in this; it's what makes her novel so good.) That's the reason for all the remakes and movies, after all; not because the story needs to be told again (Stoker's version is just fine!) but because "Dracula is soooo cool! He totally pwns the s0xx0rz off Frankunstine!!!!111!!"

(((In my own self-interest, I can't help but unnecessarily point out the intentional mis-spelling of "Frankenstein" above.)))

Animus Seed wrote:In the original Stoker novel, Stoker paints him in every way as an anti-Christ figure. (Note Renfield, the anti-Baptist preparing his way.)

Wow, I never thought of it that way! (particularly about Renfield) *ponders*

Also, I submit the scene from the movie Van Helsing, in which Dracula, upon being informed of the death of one of his brides, says, "Don't worry, I'll find a new bride!"

I might have been the only one in the theater who felt sorry for VH Drac. He seemed to me like a family man.

In between Stoker and Hollywood, Coppola's Dracula opens with the historical Tepes cursing God, desecrating a church as a crucifix weeps. He becomes a beast in every way, violating Lucy and Mina.

(Indeed, Dracula's evil works outwardly, corrupting Coppola's film as a whole]
I like the movie, but I can agree with you there.

In Elizabeth Kostova's The Historian, Dracula doesn't show up for, like, 600 pages and still manages to cast his shadow over the entire novel.

That book was awesome. Funny how so few people like it.

His evil is such that, while it should be obvious to all, it is instead ignored or even glorified. Note that in almost every modern telling of the Dracula-mythos, Tepes becomes the hero. (Kostova is unique in this; it's what makes her novel so good.) That's the reason for all the remakes and movies, after all; not because the story needs to be told again (Stoker's version is just fine!) but because "Dracula is soooo cool! He totally pwns the s0xx0rz off Frankunstine!!!!111!!"

Personally, I haven't read anything that makes Tepes the hero.
Anno Dracula, for example, has the creepiest version of Vlad I've ever read--he manages to beat Van Helsing utterly and take over England, and is portrayed as a disgusting, sadistic glutton *purges physical description from eyes*, and he too only shows up at the end of the book.

Dracula the fictional character versus Vlad the historical ruler you mean?

mitsuki lover wrote:Dracula the fictional character versus Vlad the historical ruler you mean?

This is one of the rare cases where the historical Vlad Tepes feeds the legend of the ficitional Dracula, rather than the other way around.

Hmm... so do I win yet or what? =__=

I think overall fav I would nominate Lord Feverstone. The Eldils classify him as being falt out 'broken' whereas the other villains like Westen are just 'bent and twisted' evil.