Zeitgeist

[Myoti]

"The Bible is all based-off of astrology!" so this movie claims.

If it is, then God had everything pretty amazingly planned out.

Someone showed this to a friend who in turn showed me (why the five-minute intro and overly long special effect sequences, I don't know):

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


Amazing how hard some people try to find 'facts' like those shown here.

[bakura_fan]

I'm crying after watching this(havn't watched too much...it hurts too much)...in truth...my faith has been greatly shaken. In all honesty...I...I don't know what to believe now...So many things happeneing in so many eras....I....*sigh*...I just don't know anymore...

Edit: I spoke with a Christian on youtube about this and he gave me some links on debunking the movie...if any are interested, I'll post em.

[Stephen]

Also the name of a great new Smashing Pumpkins album. However, this belongs on the movie board. *drag*

[ChristianKitsune]

To be honest, this entire thing makes me laugh...and it makes me very sad.

i am not sure I will watch the entire thing...to me it just seems like they are trying to justify what can't be justified. They are using Logic to defeat what can't be defeated.

My faith isn't so weak that a mere "documentary" about this can suddenly change my mind.

I'm sorry, I have been down this road before. I have heard of those past messaiahs. and all that jazz. And I have one thing to ask:

"Where are those religions today?" They seem to be nowhere to be found...and yet our faith, Christianity is one of the only three MAIN religions left. (when I say "main" I mean like most well known)

I am no scholar, I won't even try to say I am that smart. But coudl it be that Christianity is still around, because God wanted it that way?

It really saddens me to think that people try to disuade our faith... it's our faith! What's wrong with us belieing in a higher power? AN AWESOME Higher Power? An AMAZING God.!

The thing is, they won't understand. They can't unless they have seen the amazing things that God has done. Unless they believe, they will always try to disaude us.

and isn't that what the Bible said WOULD happen? Jesus himself told us that the World hates Him and because we believe in Him the world will hate us too.

It's not our job to try to prove ourselves right. Its our job to love these people, and pray that they will realize how silly they are being.

This documentary made me cry, but not because my faith is at risk of being challenged...but because of the lies these people are going to be spreading. This really shows me how dark the hearts of the World can be. And how much Satan is SCARED of God that he would use these silly scientists to try to disprove our faith.

I am not one to give that idiot all the credit, because I believe that too many times Christians do give him too much credit. But It really makes me wonder. I mean look at the many translations of this there are!

Bakura, why don't you go ahead and post those links for us? There could be others who worry about this documentary.

In the meantime, I pray that this video doesn't hurt any one else. what's greater everyone? The testimony of What God has done for us? Or the lies these snakes are spitting out to try to disuade our hearts?

I heard a great quote once and I will be paraphrasing it:
"People say that they think of Jesus not as a Savior but as a GREAT person. But how could that be? If he was so great, but he wasn't the savior then those people who say this are severly mistaken. For if Jesus wasn't telling the truth about being The savior or our world...then he was probably one of the most evil beings ever to live...and I just can't see that being true."

that makes a lot of sense. I mean It's like we all want to believe that Jesus was awesome! It's like it was somehow engrained into us to believe that... maybe because it's true? That he is who he said he was?

Also, if Jesus wasn't telling the truth..show me his grave. Seriously I want to see it.

[bakura_fan]

well, I'll post the reply in it's entirety.

"Zeitgeist the new 'truth' movie being promoted by its makers on conspiracy message boards around the internet has been thoroughly debunked. It is disgusting to think the makers would try to sell it as a 'truth movie' considering that it has dozens (over 50) easily provable factual errors. This is a slap in the face to the people who have died and will continue to do so in this patriot movement, we would expect nothing less than 100% accuracy of any movie in the 911 truth realm. We are talking about specific false claims that have been debunked for years, yet because this is the first time its been put into a form of a movie It has new life.

You will notice that they don't site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist, you would think if it was true that the ancient texts showed such similarities, they would simply site these ancient texts. They don't because they do not exist, Its quite simple, They instead offer books from authors such as Tim Leedom, Massey, Acharya, Doherty. This is laughable as a resource list if you have looked in to these claims. It's the equivalent as me referencing Glenn Beck to prove there is no 911 conspiracy. I know its hard to believe that Tsarion or Alan Watt have been quoting known disinfo in their dissemination of this idea, but look for yourself, The numerous claims made by this movie concerning Jesus's many similarities are either true or false. Before I move on here are the links to various debunkings of the 'Christ myth'

Here is a great look at the ridiculous claims of most of the authors on that list (how they get away with this stuff is beyond rational thought)
http://www.tektonics.org...
This is another that site handles the major deities and does so with tremendous references.
http://www.thedevineevidence.com...
I like the next site because no stone is left unturned in his search for more and more 'Christ myths deities' to debunk, he has about 80 claims looked in to here:
kingdavid8.com...
Because this movie spent so much time claiming the similarities of horus and Jesus here is a specific debunking to show how clearly uninformed in mythology and how easily duped the makers of this film are in making this claim.
http://www.tektonics.org...
Now for Leedoms 'Virishna' I wish there was more information to go on, but there is no such deity, at least in our earth's currently verifiable history. He apparently didn't bother with fact checking. Here is one account of the hunt for Virishna from an earlier source:
kingdavid8.com...

This movie also tries to make the claim that the Catholic churches pagan ideals, symbolism ,and rituals are somehow proof that Christianity itself is a part of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Lets take December 25th mentioned at least a dozen times in the film. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in A.D. 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. Any person that doesn't drool on themselves will tell you that nowhere in the bible is this date mentioned or inferred in ANY way. It is ludicrous to say that and pagan rituals involving this date can be linked to Christianity before the catholic church got a hold of the idea, that is, ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER.

http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org/zeitgeistpartone.shtml "

[ChristianKitsune]

I was going to point out the whole December 25 thing XD I was like "Whut? Are they like serious?!"

And whats with the MSPaint like graphics...

Seriously this movie did make me laugh.
Thanks for the references ^^

[Sakura15]

"Where are those religions today?" They seem to be nowhere to be found...and yet our faith, Christianity is one of the only three MAIN religions left. (when I say "main" I mean like most well known)

Exactly, and there is nothing out there that can persuade me that Jesus Christ is not my savior. I have seen him working in my life and the lives around me, I've felt his presence and his love.

It's just sad to me, seeing how satan has so much influence on these peoples lives. All we can do is pray for them I suppose and do our best(with Christ's help) to be shining lights in a dark world.

[rocklobster]

What is it about Christianity that is inspiring people to attempt to debunk or undermine it? I mean, it's got a great message.

[Stephen]

Any message that says someone is going to hell, someone is going to heaven, is going to encourage debunking. If you don't want to follow something, why would you support it?

[Nate]

What is it about Christianity that is inspiring people to attempt to debunk or undermine it? I mean, it's got a great message.

First of all, it depends on the "message" you're talking about. If you mean "love other people" then hey, guess what? Buddhism and Hinduism have that message too. So they have a great message, why do you attempt to debunk and undermine those?

If you're talking about the message of Christ dying for our sins, then there's a lot of reasons people debunk and undermine it. In no particular order.

1. It forces people to admit they are sinners and unworthy of eternal life. Most people would rather think "I'm a pretty good guy, I'm good enough to get in Heaven, I'm certainly better than mass murderers."

2. Going off of that, people say God is insane or evil if (example) a person who raped and murdered a few toddlers comes to repentance and accepts Christ is allowed into Heaven. "It's unfair, that person is sick and demented, how come HE would get to go to Heaven and my wife who's a Buddhist and loves others and is generous would go to Hell?" This doesn't sit well with people because we're mortal.

3. No getting drunk. No sex outside marriage. No looking at porn. Things the world considers fun that you aren't supposed to do as a Christian. Therefore, Christianity = no fun. Further, the church is evil for preventing people from having fun, they want mindless slaves.

4. The BIGGEST reason. Christians keep trying to pass laws based on religious beliefs (example, banning gay marriage) which upsets people who aren't Christian. I've heard many atheists say, "I would leave Christians alone if they quit trying to pass laws to make everyone else comply with THEIR religious beliefs." But Christians don't do that, and thus, in an attempt to reduce the number of Christians (and thereby reduce the laws based on religious beliefs from being drafted), debunking Christianity and making less Christians is an effective way to reduce opposition.

Seriously, if you're trying to figure out why people want to discredit religion, you can't look at it from the point of view of a religious person. You have to look at it from the point of view of the other side.

[Technomancer]

Nate makes some good points, but I would also like to add another. Specifically, many Christians seem to believe a much more simplistic story of how Jueo-Christian beliefs were formed, of how the bible came to be written, and Christianity's early development than is actually true. Whether this comes from simple unawareness, or from a dogmatic insistence on such simplicity the end result is the same: any exposition on the subject is likely to contradict one's beliefs and may be interpreted as an attack.

Now in this particular case, the intent is clearly to attack Christianity through a hodgepodge of actual facts as well as conjectures and conspiracy theories.

[LadyRushia]

I second what Nate said; and as long as some Christians keep shoving the Bible down everyone's throat and acting like they're better than everyone else, people will continue to try to prove Christianity as false.

But back to the topic, I haven't seen this yet; however, I wouldn't really worry too much about it, especially since there's so much that's debunking what this documentary is saying.

[Tyrel]

Ah Zeitgeist, one of the biggest headaches I've had in a long while. I've seen it many times and worked through the video with people to show them where it is clearly wrong, and how reliable it is. I doubt very much if even those who support the Jesus Myth hypothesis look upon this movie as anything but shameful.

It is an attack on uneducated American Evangelical fundamentalists.

That said, the reason it's such a headache is because of how indoctrinating it is for those who don't know better, and how false it is. It's like the DaVinci Code, except not nearly as clearly wrong. Or like the Muslim arguments surrounding Deuteronomy 18 and the Gospel of Barnabas. Or ID...

But no, in seriousness, this video should only cause the weak to falter. I think one day I'll write out my points against it instead of just work with every individual who brings it to me, again and again. The problem though, is that it's almost not worth dignifying with a response.

When Celsus attacked Christianity in the second Century, and Origen's friend asked him to refute Celsus' book "the True Word", Origen said the following;

"When false witnesses testified against our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, He remained silent; and when unfounded charges were brought against Him, He returned no answer, believing that His whole life and conduct among the Jews were a better refutation than any answer to the false testimony, or than any formal defence against the accusations..." - "Jesus... is at all times assailed by false witnesses, and, while wickedness remains in the world, is ever exposed to accusation. And yet even now He continues silent before these things, and makes no audible answer, but places His defence in the lives of His genuine disciples, which are a pre-eminent testimony, and one that rises superior to all false witness, and refutes and overthrows all unfounded accusations and charges..."

He went on to make the point that the second Christians give a reply to these kinds of silly things, it makes it seem almost as though there is even some kind of an argument to be had at all.

Just the same, this movie seems to be bothering an unsettling number of people. I might eventually write out my points.