CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

yah so... I'm hoping some of you know/love our beloved Relient K. There christian/secular music is both joyable and uplifting. But in recent news Relient K is becoming all the way secular and not any christian.

I don't know how to react. Should I stop listening to their A-W-E-S-O-M-E music? Or just understand that they wanna go farther in this world as musical artists. I know that because they arn't singing christian music anymore doesn't mean their not christians... but y do they have to change their old christian lyrics too???



...I'm so sad.

If its a job, and not a ministry...they can do whatever they want. But perhaps I am biased...since I have always hated the band...

How, pray tell, have they gone completely secular and not Christian? Just two weeks ago I saw them at Cornerstone Festival, a Christian music festival. I'm curious to see your response...

and anyways, what exactly do you mean by "secular"? Wouldn't they have a greater opportunity to spread the gospel if they aren't pandering to a soley Christian market?

Easy everyone. Don't be so defensive of "Christian" music. Many bands crossover. The logic that they are ministering is crap most of the time. Many times, the bands are doing music for a job. And if they are, who are we to tell them how to do there jobs? Don't buy there cd, or buy it...but leave judging them to God. As I said, if they are a ministry thats one thing...but I am pretty sure they are not. After seeing them live anyway.

Yeah. I've never really seen them get on stage and start reppin' for Jesus or anything like that. I see them as a Christian band but not a ministry, if that makes any sense. Ah well. Either way, Mmhmm was a really good CD.

They're kind of half and half right now. Where did you hear they were going all the way secular? They seemed like the last band that would do something like that. That makes me kind of sad too. I hope its just a rumor...

Kkun wrote:How, pray tell, have they gone completely secular and not Christian? Just two weeks ago I saw them at Cornerstone Festival, a Christian music festival. I'm curious to see your response...

Well.. as you can hear they are touring with Simple Plan and Good Charolette pretty soon. SOOO.. i guess there gonna change all there Christian lyrics. If not thats GREAT! Though its not what i hear from there newsletter. When you saw them were they with Simple Plan and Good Charolette cause idk if they are already touring with them?

Naw, I think the lables just stuck them on the tour with them. Pretty much everyone already knows that Relient K is a Christian band so the GC and SP fans will come expecting it.

Edit: You're heard of Switchfoot, right? Well... they still have Christian lyrics and they're pretty popular on secular radio. Everyone knows they're Christians, but they like them anyway. They still play at Christian music festivals, too. Starting out warming up for secular bands, they got booed off stage and beer cans thrown at their faces. Their still the same Switchfoot we know and love though - still awesome Christians and great role models. When I saw them in concert in October they were HEADLINING a tour of secular bands.

What's wrong with secular bands in the first place? Take a look at U2. They're secular but in some songs they give glory to God and proclaim Jesus's name. Just cause a Christian band tours with a known secular band doesn't mean they are not Christian anymore.

Anyways, I agree with what Coby said bout Switchfoot.

idk that I'd agree that everyone knows that Switchfoot is christian. One girl I know (whos against christianity) loves them, and doesn't have a clue. I didn't know either till someone had told me.

Yeah, but Switchfoot was always like that. Unless you really listened to the lyrics and thought about them you wouldn't necessarily know they were Christian. Some of Relient K's stuff is like that too.

Rin-chan679 wrote:Well.. as you can hear they are touring with Simple Plan and Good Charolette pretty soon. SOOO.. i guess there gonna change all there Christian lyrics. If not thats GREAT! Though its not what i hear from there newsletter. When you saw them were they with Simple Plan and Good Charolette cause idk if they are already touring with them?

Yeah, they've had the tour with Simple Plan and Good Charlotte planned for, oh, a month now. I still don't see how that means they aren't Christian or are turning unChristian. What about bands like Blindside, P.O.D., Norma Jean, The Chariot, Underoath, and Switchfoot who are all Christians and tour with bands that CLEARLY do not believe the same way as they do (look at Norma Jean touring with Atreyu and Unearth)? I dunno. I don't see anything particularly bad about Relient K and where they are.

I look at Relient K as Christian entertainment. I don't think they ever started as a ministry, anyway, so they're clean poppunkers that happen to know Jesus. That's how I see things...

Zilch wrote:I look at Relient K as Christian entertainment. I don't think they ever started as a ministry, anyway, so they're clean poppunkers that happen to know Jesus. That's how I see things...

Just when I thought I was alone in how I felt. Thank you.

Shatterheart wrote:Just when I thought I was alone in how I felt. Thank you.

That makes three of us then.

Wait, wait, wait... have you guys listened to their newest album? Some of their songs might be just light-hearted clean punk songs, but alot of the music on Mmhmm is very specifically Christian. It helped me to grow alot spiriticually. It'd concider them a ministry... but maybe I'm wrong. It seems like the bands like Anberlin and Hawk Nelson fit better into the cat. you're discribing IMO.

I am not going to argue with you Cobalt. You know full well that you and I agree on about nothing concerning "Christian" music. I said my peace, so I will leave this thread.

Dude, I'm sorry I didn't mean it to start a fight. I was just stating my opinion. ^^;; I'm sorry. No hard feelings.

*laughs* No, I was not trying to imply that you were imply....*head swims* I did not think you were trying to start a fight, I was simply saying it would be best if I bowed out of this thread considering my unique views on Christian music and secular music and all. Thats all. No worries Cobalt.

Hey As I Lay Dying is playing at Ozzfest where there's bands like Black Sabbath, Lamb of God, Ron Zombie, and Mudvaune but they are Christian (I think they are the only Christian abnd playing there).. Heck on the Ozzfest website they have a demon drinking booze and smokling a cigar.

This is not a Relient K uproar, or a Switchfoot uproar, or a U2 uproar...
This is the same old conflict that has arisen since the advent of Christian music as an industry. The artists have free reign to take their music to whatever direction and audience they choose. One of my old roomates and best friends is the brother of Jeff and John Fortson from Squad Five-O, if you've ever heard of them.
They were on Tooth and Nail records for the longest time, playing Cornerstone and church shows and such. Their most recent album, much like Relient K's, was distributed through a much larger, secular label (Columbia, in SFO's case). This change to mainstream is accompanied by Jeff's inclusion of curse words in the lyrics and political dialogue as a mainstay in their message.
Christian band, or Christians in a band?
Does it matter? To some, they say it's their job, and they have to make money in the hard life on the road, so they cater to whatever audience there is more of, with more money to come to shows and buy stickers and shirts and CDs.
To others, they view it as ministry, tailoring their message to sound as ambiguous as possible, with songs referencing an anonymous "you" which could be interpreted as God, or a girlfriend, depending on your interpretation (i.e. Lifehouse's earlier albums).
In the end, however, God is pretty clear in His Word what His desire for our creative and communicative outlets should be.
Romans 1:16 says "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
NOT ASHAMED. We are called to proclaim this hope we have not only here, but in the great commission itself, from the very mouth of our Savior. Why then would we shy away from the only message that has any relevancy in the face of eternity?
The apostle Paul came to Athens, then the cultural and philosophical center of the world, with every intention of making his message culturally relevant, and watered-down to the point when it would be easy to swallow and accessable to the masses.
What happened? Only a few believed.
Afterward, Paul went to Corinth, the ghetto, the morally degenerate playground of the day, and purposed in his heart to bring ONLY Christ and Him crucified. No watering down of the Gospel, no shying away from the Truth, and hence, a massive family of believers is brought into the lasting Kingdom.
My job is in an office, and I strive to do it well, but not with the express intention of spreading the Word. As a result, I am often frustrated and broken hearted when I see the emptiness in the lives of those around my little cubicle. I am equally dismayed when I realize that same sense of lacking purpose in my own lukewarm life. It is in those moments that relationships are built, and the message I bring, hypocrite that I may be, is shared- that I find fulfilment, excitement, and growth.
In the face of eternity, meaningless disputes over music (see Romans 14) are meaningless, and if the artists are following that path in faith, then that's between them and God.
For my money, I'll support whomever I can see Jesus shining forth from, without compromise, regardless of label, stigma, or target audience.

Nu-En-Jin wrote:For my money, I'll support whomever I can see Jesus shining forth from, without compromise, regardless of label, stigma, or target audience.

Just had to AMEN that one....what a great statement. I concur.

I agreed with you totaly Ju-En-Jin till this.

In the end, however, God is pretty clear in His Word what His desire for our creative and communicative outlets should be.
Romans 1:16 says "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
NOT ASHAMED. We are called to proclaim this hope we have not only here, but in the great commission itself, from the very mouth of our Savior. Why then would we shy away from the only message that has any relevancy in the face of eternity?
The apostle Paul came to Athens, then the cultural and philosophical center of the world, with every intention of making his message culturally relevant, and watered-down to the point when it would be easy to swallow and accessable to the masses.

Now maybe I am reading that wrong...but your not making any sence to me...perhaps I missed somthing. I don't belive that Christians have to sing about Jesus. If singing is there job, they can sing whatever they want to pay the bills...I fail to see your point I guess. I mean, do you spend 24-7 of the time your at work preaching the Gospel? No, because if you did...you would never get any work done. There is a time and place for everything.

Shatterheart wrote:Now maybe I am reading that wrong...but your not making any sence to me...perhaps I missed somthing. I don't belive that Christians have to sing about Jesus. If singing is there job, they can sing whatever they want to pay the bills...I fail to see your point I guess. I mean, do you spend 24-7 of the time your at work preaching the Gospel? No, because if you did...you would never get any work done. There is a time and place for everything.

You're right, sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.
All I was saying is that our inherent desire as flawed human beings is to draw lines of division between things. Just look at church denominations.
Same thing with music, trying to create a clear black and white between good and acceptable music and that which is detrimental takes more than just what label an artist is on, or how they present their relationship with Jesus in their lyrics. Man looks on the outside, but God looks on the heart, right? But then look at the universe as God has created it. There is definite right and definite wrong, and we sometimes cannot tell the difference and come across "grey" areas such as this. That's when an examination of the heart is required (seriously, I encourage everyone to go read Romans 14 again).
Sometimes we miss out on some great Spirit-infused songs because a group's gone mainstream and therefore, we think they can't be, or aren't being, as bold with their faith. Not necessarily true.
We can also without question go and purchase an album from a band that doesn't even try and represent Jesus, whether lyrically, or how they live their lives after the show, simply because they're attached to a tour with some mainstream Christian artists, or they're on a label with Tobymac (just an example), or whatever...
In the case of Bleach, who did not mention Jesus every other line of their songs... if you ever get to meet any of those guys... wow. You're family to them about 5 seconds into the conversation. True men who seek to exemplify Christ.
Then there's the afformentioned Relient K (getting somewhat back on topic), with some outstanding lyrics in all their albums to date, some of which are unabashedly Jesus-centric, without question.
As a youth leader, I got invited to a special tent at Cornerstone Florida when we all went a few weeks ago. I didn't stop by there more than twice the whole fest, because I was too busy meeting people and watching amazing shows, but the second day, there was a talkback session scheduled with the two Matts from RK, and we decided to go see what that was all about.
A few questions from the crowd of youth leaders, some vague answers (I got how they feel about their band as ministry... i.e. they don't), but the stiking thing to me, was upon their leaving the session, they were walking around a little later, and really acted too busy and important to really get to know any of the clamoring fans that would stop them along the way to wherever they were headed.
Normally, I chalk this type of behavior up to life on the road, which can make these artists tired and cranky on occasion. It's not an easy life, being a musician, Christian or otherwise, so I give them a break.
But this is the third year in a row, at 5 different venues where I have seen these same guys from RK act like that.
Now we might be quick to judge, and it might sound like I am judging, but really, I can't.
Simply because of those verses I mentioned. Who am I to judge what God can do or is doing through the work, or music, or art, of one of His children?
If the Lord is truly Lord of their lives, the message will burn a hole in them until that light shines forth (Ezekiel had this problem... the truth weighed so heavy on him he simply couldn't contain it).
Both of these bands have had an opportunity to impact lives for eternity through what they do. Simply because they decide not to exercise that occasion does not make me like them any less as people (I don't even know them, and I dare assume neither do any of us, so...), or give me a desire to besmirch their reputation simply because I might do things differently if I was a rock star.
All I know is that the salvation of the listener should be as important to them as the salvation of my co-workers should be to me. In the face of eternity, only Jesus matters.
Looks like we all have a lot to learn still... and I will look to my own plank first. Their specks can wait...

This is a little off what you guys are talking about, so I hope I'm not too off-centered, but this is my opinion on the matter.

I think what Relient K is doing is what Switchfoot has already done. Even if you check Relient K's myspace (which I stumbled across), they talk about Switchfoot being an influence in their music.

Relient K's newest album is in many ways like Switchfoot's "The Beautiful Letdown". While you don't have them proclaiming the name of Jesus directly, you have something that can start to soften the hearts of those people who have been turned off to Christianity. Their lyrics do not mention Jesus whatsoever, but rather express Christian struggles and values. In their latest album "MmmHmm" the best examples would be "Be My Escape" (despite the music video being Good Charlotte minus piercings), "I So Hate Consequences", and "When I Go Down". Just like on Switchfoot's "The Beautiful Letdown" there's songs like, "Meant to Live", "This is your Life", "Dare You To Move", "Redemption", "The Beautiful Letdown", "Gone", "On Fire" are all songs that exemplify how a Christian should live, and "On Fire" is probably the most heartfelt about being on fire for God.

Also, there's a lot of people who can testify (myself included) whose heart was soften to the values Christians hold because of Switchfoot. In time, I wasn't so offended by hearing the name of our savior, and eventually through the love and prayers of my friends come to Christ and welcome him into my life. On another personal note, Relient K's music, especially the songs of "MmmHmm" have helped me through my struggles. The first time I heard "I So Hate Consequences" I broke down in tears because I had been so stressed about the things I had been doing, and stopped running from God.

So if they go "secular" for Christ, the more power to them. Music is so influential, and if they are touring with Simple Plan and Good Charlotte, so what? You don't need to use the name of Christ like Casting Crowns to get the message across, it's simply another form of evangelism. MercyMe's hit, "I Can Only Imagine" doesn't use the word "God" or "Jesus" once. You have to understand that some people are like Paul, who will proclaim and offend and will bring people into the light through that way. But some people need to be softened, to want to know why Christians are different because they see us act differently, react differently, and live differently. There is no "one true way" to evangelism, to say so gives me the impression that you have a very narrow-minded view of people and Christianity as a whole.

There are many types of subgenres in our Christian music industry. We have musicians who inspire people like Casting Crowns and MercyMe, or praise artists like Newsboys, Jeremy Camp, and David Crowder Band, rappers like John Reubon, T-bone, Thousand Foot Krutch, and others.

On the same type of account, check out the Christian clothing line known as "Ezekial". As a person who will graduate in about two weeks, I've seen so many non-Christians wear the line of clothing it's amazing. Tell them what it means. I have, most of the time they think that's pretty wicked that this seemingly cool name has such a cool meaning behind it too.

Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to be the smartest and closest to God, I'm an 18-year-old male from Southern California who loves God and follows God and believes in Christ. I do wish to be a pastor, especially to Youth when I'm older. But at the same time, I think these kind of judgements on the bands are wrong. "Judge lest ye be judged" I believe it was.

Shatterheart wrote:I agreed with you totaly Ju-En-Jin till this.



Now maybe I am reading that wrong...but your not making any sence to me...perhaps I missed somthing. I don't belive that Christians have to sing about Jesus. If singing is there job, they can sing whatever they want to pay the bills...I fail to see your point I guess. I mean, do you spend 24-7 of the time your at work preaching the Gospel? No, because if you did...you would never get any work done. There is a time and place for everything.

also singing and preaching isn't everything our actions speak louder than our words (just had to state that)
but personally i really like reliant k and find it hard to believe there going "secular" thinking of there christmas album
and i mean they even got good things on there last cd i just cant think of them doing that, even at there last concert i went to they were praising God publicly(But that was also last summer) so i dont know man

Eh. They're just pulling a P.O.D.

A lot of times bands that go down this path have a tendancy to make mistakes and mess up their witness, but SOME do quite fine. So far, Relient K seems to be OK. Even though the music video seems to imply it being about a girlfriend (WHY do Christian bands do that with their songs so often?), I think the song 'Be My Escape' is a great God-centered song. One line, preticularly, surprised me with a depth I haven't normally seen in Relient K's music--"The beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair". It's a great thing to remember as a Christian, I think...

Soo...so far, I think they're doing OK. It's certainly something that can cause you to struggle (the entertainment indrustry just has a lot of pressures in general, I think), but it doesn't automatically mean "Oh, these guys are abandoning their faith".

I agree with what Nu-En-Jen said. Its so hard though to find a Christian band that is realy christian sometimes. I also think it is perfectly fine to be a christian in a band (not a ministry) but that we as christians are obligated to show christs love and to still live our lives for him; to be a light in this darkened world. Hitokiri also brought up good point about AILD and Ozzfest. I think alot of people should read this http://www.hmmagazine.com/exclusive/as_i_lay_dying_norma_jean200504/index.php It is a very good example.