Pledge of Allegiance

[Vash is a plant]

Is it right to say the Pledge of Allegiance, or any pledge to any country?

Personally, I don't think it is because I pledge my allegiance to God, not any part of this world, but that's just me. What do the rest of you guys think?
dance break

[Vyse]

"One nation, under God"

[ssj2gohan61]

well said Vyse... and if your in the good old USA you have freedom to make the choice wether you want to say it or not and if you dont say it atleast stand up and show some respect for those who died for the country..

[Vash is a plant]

hmm.. sometimes it doesn't seem like we truely are "one nation under God", especially with things like abortion and gay marriages being legalized.. T.T it's sad really..

[Spirit_Wolf8356]

Yes, it is very sad, but still, this is our country. We should be proud to stand and give our allegiance to it. We don't give allegiance to the people in the country, but what the country was founded on. Freedom of religion, of speech, of press, just plain freedom to do whatever we want to do. That is what I think we're pledging allegiance to. *shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.

[Vash is a plant]

Yes, it is very sad, but still, this is our country. We should be proud to stand and give our allegiance to it. We don't give allegiance to the people in the country, but what the country was founded on. Freedom of religion, of speech, of press, just plain freedom to do whatever we want to do. That is what I think we're pledging allegiance to. *shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.

hmm... that's a good point...

[The_Marauding_Maniac]

Yes I am scared of america turning out like rome... The government is giving more power to the presidents.

[Vash is a plant]

Yes I am scared of america turning out like rome... The government is giving more power to the presidents.

*nods* the morality of the nation is crumbling. when that is all gone, it will all fall. it'd probably be a lot different from the way rome fell, considering all the technology we have. this one wouldn't be surprised if everything turned out like the matrix series. that would be soo odd, but one must also ask: how far will God let things go? Would He ever allow anything like the Matrix to happen...?

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't say the pledge of alliegance, simply because I'm not too happy in this country.

I'm happy that the government tends not to make laws to satisfy a certain religion. separation of church and state. that's the way it should be. cause not everyone's a christian, you know. anyway, this is just my opinion.

[glitch1501]

well said Vyse... and if your in the good old USA you have freedom to make the choice wether you want to say it or not and if you dont say it atleast stand up and show some respect for those who died for the country..

thats my feelings

Yes I am scared of america turning out like rome... The government is giving more power to the presidents.

seems to me that the supreme court has a lot of power right now

[EireWolf]

Because so many people fought and died for the freedom you take for granted, you have the right not to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Zedian]

I think one should at least stand and take respect into consideration, especially for all those who died fighting for our freedom's sake. Unfortunately, you can't FORCE anyone to say one nation under God, because the most USED amendment in the constitution states freedom of speech including religion or whatever.

What does tick me off badly is how the ACLU always takes their hand, and attempt to sweep away anything remotely 'promoting' Christianity.

[The_Marauding_Maniac]

I've often wondered if soldiers wonder if it's worth fighting for all the mess in our country... meh...

[Hitokiri]

God says we have to respect and submit to the current authrity and obey our government. I feel honored to say the Pledge of Alligence, defiently for this country.

[uc pseudonym]

EireWolf rightly brings up the obvious point regarding freedom, but that really isn't the issue for my post.

I, unlike the majority in this thread, do not say the pledge of allegiance. My primary reason is this: my allegiance has already been pledged, and it has been pledged to Jesus Christ alone. No nationstate will be perfect, and I cannot condone every policy of the United States. During the pledge (at the strange times I am actually in its presence) I stand out of respect for the ideals of the nation, but, in my mind, the pledge asks for something that I cannot give.

[Hitokiri]

Yes I am scared of america turning out like rome... The government is giving more power to the presidents.

thats why as soon as im out of college...im outta this country. i like the US and I will stand by it but I would much rather be lets say Germany, or Britain, or JAPAN!!....maybe Australia.

[The_Marauding_Maniac]

thats why as soon as im out of college...im outta this country. i like the US and I will stand by it but I would much rather be lets say Germany, or Britain, or JAPAN!!....maybe Australia.

Yeah, Any of those, Italy, France, or canada!

[Hitokiri]

France, or canada!

nooooooooooooooooo way....Im mortal enemies which those countries. Well I do like Canada cause of it's wilderness....so we'kll keep Canada (but I know they will team up with Mexico and take over the US!!!). But I can't stand France.

Did you know they created the Quiji Board and Black Masses started thier?
I just don't like France but I still wanna visit it.

[The_Marauding_Maniac]

:O no I didn't! >.> <.< Itatly is the land of the artist, home of the pasta makers. PASTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EireWolf]

thats why as soon as im out of college...im outta this country. i like the US and I will stand by it but I would much rather be lets say Germany, or Britain, or JAPAN!!....maybe Australia.

Do you see the irony in this? Some of those countries have stellar reputations for never giving too much power to their leaders....

The fact is, no country is perfect. Only God is perfect. I only pledge my allegiance to this country insofar as to not betray it to an enemy country. Of course my primary allegiance is to God. My allegiance to the U.S., or to anyone else for that matter, ends the day it asks me to renounce or betray God.

For all its faults, I still love my country. The U.S. has major problems, but so does any governmental system that's been in power for very long. Thank the bureaucrats for that. This country is still great.

[Mithrandir]

Huh. Well, that's definitely interesting. Looks like we're straying away from the point of the original post a little. At the risk of appearing "combative" or "sacrilegious," I think I'd better point out some things. I tend to get nervous when people don't know all the facts, so I'm going to give you all a quick lesson in history here.

Dates:
1. The revolution was fought from 1777 until 1783.
2. Our country was founded in 1784.
3. In April of 1861, less than 100 years after the country is founded, the Civil War began, and did not end until May of 1865. (Over 600,000 Americans died in this war, and another 50,000+ were the recipients of amputations.)
4. In 1892, 30 or so years after the civil war ended, America celebrates its first Columbus Day. A socialist by the name of Francis Bellamy (not to be confused with, but a cousin of, the famous radical writer Edward Bellamy) pens "The Pledge of Allegiance" for a popular magazine at the time, called "Youth's Companion."

""I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.""

5. In 1923, the Daughters of the American Revolution (and some other groups) create the "National Flag Conference," and start a grass roots campaign to change the words "my flag" to "the flag of the United States." The next year, "of America" was added. The proclaimed rational was to keep immigrants from being confused by the pledge, and supporting the flag from the nation they left.
6. By the late 1920s, during an era filled with interesting people and places, many schools had taken to reciting this pledge as a morning ritual, a practice that continues to this day in some schools.
7. In 1954, Eisenhower signs a bill to add the words "under God" to the pledge of allegiance, and proclaims that "our schoolchildren will daily proclaim ... the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."
8. In 1955, under the watchful eye of then president General Eisenhower, congress adds the words "In God we trust" to the country's paper currency.
9. In 1956, congress replaces the nation's official national motto (E Pluribus Unum) with "In God we trust."

Some other interesting facts:
1. When the pledge was modified to include "under God," the nation was in the beginnings of a "cold war" with the Soviet Union, and other communist powers. Part of the rationale behind the modification was to show that we were separate from the atheistic governments we were at war with. Fast forward 50+ years, and now we as a nation are again at war. A war against terrorism. Who are these terrorists? Radical religious groups bent on the destruction of a non-religious state. They are striving to create "One nation, under God."
2. When Bellamy penned the pledge above, take a close look at the part surrounded by the commas. "one nation indivisible" was a direct reference to the Civil war.
3. The phrase "... endowed by their Creator ..." was intentionally ambiguous.


Anyway, that's just a snapshot of the appropriate history. I don't want to derail the train of the original post, but I do want everyone to know the facts before they start posting whatever drivel they've been fed about the issue.

[ShiroiHikari]

Wow....thanks so much for the info, oldphil, and I'm not being sarcastic. I don't remember ever being taught about that in school...

Anyway, I say the pledge out of respect for my country. I'm not happy with the way things are right now, but like the rest of the world is any better? I'm glad I was born here.

[Mithrandir]

Well, my father is a very conservative individule, but he taught constitution for 25 years. (And English, which is why bad grammar bugs me...) So when I see stuff like this, I kinda revert to his format. I got swatted a few times as a child (who hasn't?!?) but mainly I got lectured to. So I know a lot of this kind of stuff..... I wasn't the best of kids, evidently...

[alf4office]

The reall question here is not one of how deserving our country is of our allegiance, but rather if a Christian can pledge their allegiance anywhere other than God.

As long as jesus is first in my life, I have no problem pledging my Allegiance to America. Seeing as it won't survive without our allegiance, I think it's important. As long as my love for America doesn't take away from my love of God, I think it's fine.

[Ashley]

You know, I'm not sure why this thread is still standing. It's riddled with political ideas and doctrines....and the original question itself is something that needs to be settled on an individual basis with regard to upbringing, political ideals and denominations.

I for one have been out all weekend because of graduation and the out of state visitors I had, but I think it still deserves to be closed simply for the sake of consistency. So in that spirit, despite some of the intelligent posts made, this thread is closed.