CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I've noticed some parents have a bit of a strange attitude when it comes to age. It seems when their kids turn 18, they are eager to throw them out. They're adults now! They need to learn on their own! It seems very strange to me that people expect their kids to automatically be able to adjust to adult life when throughout their entire teenage years, they have largely been treated as children.

It used to be teens were taught trades, trained as apprentices, but now with high school teens are largely treated the same as kids. Many times, expressing their own thoughts and trying to think for themselves is discouraged. The sit down and shut up mentality is strong. So teens grow up not knowing how to think for themselves and high school rarely prepares them for real life. Sometimes, it barely even prepares them for college.

I see freshman at my college all the time, fresh out of high school wandering into college without a single idea what it is going to be like. It isn't pretty.

I agree with preparing teens for adulthood one step at a time, but this idea that somehow they should learn it all at once by being thrown out on their butts just really annoys me.

You don't learn a subject in a day, it takes time. You can begin by going to school, getting a job, managing time, etc. But expecting teens to automatically become adults? I find that preposterous. At the end of the day, age is just a number.

Thoughts?

Some auto-rental companies won't rent to someone under 25. It's my experience that a lot of people aren't actually capable of truly thinking for themselves until about that age.

I agree. I'm almost eighteen, but I don't feel very grown-up, although maybe I'm just not noticing it. I know I'm a bit more mature, but I don't really feel any age anymore. Plus, I'm terrified because I have no idea what I'm doing when I graduate.
But at the same time, even though I don't feel very mature, I hate it when some older folks basically talk about how stupid and irrational teenagers are right in my face, as if I couldn't understand them. And I know that I'm inexperienced and don't know as much, but don't feel like my opinions should be dismissed just because I'm young. Then again, who ever actually thought that? XD
It's also really subjective, though--Some people will treat teenagers as children or as adults depending on the situation. It is a very grey area. Yes, they used to teach kids trades and stuff, but sometimes those people often lived rather grim lives, even if they were more responsible. While I wish teenagers--myself included--could be more responsible (Ah, if only responsibility were easy!), I also think the free time we have is valuable.
At the same time, I'm probably just really soft, but sometimes school and figuring out what we want to do in the future is very stressful. I hate it when people say "Well, it's harder when you're out of school/in college" because that always makes me think, "Then if it's really hard now, how will I survive then?"

I'm 24, went to college 11 hours away from home, been living by myself in a foreign country for 2 1/2 years, and I STILL don't feel like a competent adult sometimes.

Yeah, apprently around the time of Jesus. The jews didn't concider someone an adult till they were 30.

But yeah, I still feel like a kid too.

Mithrandir wrote:Some auto-rental companies won't rent to someone under 25. It's my experience that a lot of people aren't actually capable of truly thinking for themselves until about that age.

I pretty much have to agree with this. I didn't go to college, so I don't know if the coddling really continues much beyond high school, but generally the shock of real life all hitting you at once has a drastic maturing effect. Teaching kids trades and such does help with various aspects, but it doesn't really account for what "real life" is going to be like. You can teach someone how to do all the things that they're going to have to do when they reach adulthood, but things are different when that times actually comes and they get pushed into it. I'm a completely different person now than I was when I was 18.

dothackzero wrote:Yeah, apprently around the time of Jesus. The jews didn't concider someone an adult till they were 30.

Source on this? Jewish rites of passage occur around age 13, that's when a boy becomes a "man" and begins learning his father's trade and so on.

Yeah, I heard it from paster.

Then theres also this I just found... Talking about Song of Solomon

Now, I have to be honest - this Song is pretty frank in it's description of marital love

Of course, the language is symbolic, as is fitting for a poem

This isn�t a technical journal on love-making; it's a poem

But the picture language it uses is of the act of sex between a husband and a wife

And it is quite graphic!

In fact, so graphic is it that in ancient Israel, Jews were not allowed to read the Song till they were 30 or married

And even today, in Orthodox homes, it cannot be read till one has been bar or bat mitzvahed

http://www.calvaryoxnard.org/studies/ot ... olomon.htm

I'm 23 years old and I still don't feel like an adult. I honestly have a lot of work to do if I want to be a functioning member of society at some point. Learn how to drive, find a job, get my sometimes extreme social anxiety issues under control, etc. I'm really lucky my mother puts up with me. I don't think I would have done well if she'd just kicked me out the front door as soon as I turned 18. The thought that there are parents who actually do such a thing is kind of terrifying.

now that I'm 18 I function more as a kid than I did before. I payed all of my own bills plus a little rent to live at home when I was 17. then I startd college and quit my job because I'm not very good at acedemic work and now I'm back to being helpless

Seems I was slightly off in my understanding of the bar mitzvah, but it still appears the age of adulthood according to Judaisim is under 30.
http://judaism.about.com/od/lifeevents/a/meaningofbecomingbarmitzvah.htm

TopazRaven wrote:I'm 23 years old and I still don't feel like an adult. I honestly have a lot of work to do if I want to be a functioning member of society at some point. Learn how to drive, find a job, get my sometimes extreme social anxiety issues under control, etc. I'm really lucky my mother puts up with me. I don't think I would have done well if she'd just kicked me out the front door as soon as I turned 18. The thought that there are parents who actually do such a thing is kind of terrifying.

There are some parents that seem to only believe in tough love and think if the kid isn't immediately becoming independent as soon as they get out of high school, something must be wrong. It's rather unrealistic.

Some colleges coddles their students more than others. It really depends on the professors. Some professors will coddle their students by giving them extensions on homework, going easy on them, etc. Others are more hardnosed, and stick to unchangeable deadlines and if you screw around and mess up royally, they aren't gonna give you any special treatment.

Well, at least with all these parents kicking their kids out, the old folks homes are going to have a lot of business in the long run.

See I have a bit of a problem with what you're saying (in the most respectful way possible, of course).

Throughout human history, until about fifty years ago, 18 was an adult. It would be perfectly normal for an 18 year old to be married, holding down a job, and taking on responsibilities. Humans haven't "changed" in 50 years, we're still perfectly capable of whatever we were 2-3 generations ago. Ultimately what it comes down to is a combination of people not wanting to grow up, and society not wanting us to grow up.

It's not my place to tell people they should act like an adult, or whether or not it's okay to still be a child well into their 20's (or 30's in some cases). But I do strongly disagree with the assertion that they are not capable or otherwise ready to take on the responsibility. If they "aren't", it is because they choose not to be.

I'd also point out that some of us who weren't lucky enough to have parents had to grow up a lot earlier than 18. It's still possible to be a crazy fun person and still accept adult responsibilities, even as a teenager.

Rusty Claymore wrote:Well, at least with all these parents kicking their kids out, the old folks homes are going to have a lot of business in the long run.

This made me lawl

DarkNozomi wrote:See I have a bit of a problem with what you're saying (in the most respectful way possible, of course).

Throughout human history, until about fifty years ago, 18 was an adult. It would be perfectly normal for an 18 year old to be married, holding down a job, and taking on responsibilities. Humans haven't "changed" in 50 years, we're still perfectly capable of whatever we were 2-3 generations ago. Ultimately what it comes down to is a combination of people not wanting to grow up, and society not wanting us to grow up.

It's not my place to tell people they should act like an adult, or whether or not it's okay to still be a child well into their 20's (or 30's in some cases). But I do strongly disagree with the assertion that they are not capable or otherwise ready to take on the responsibility. If they "aren't", it is because they choose not to be.

I'd also point out that some of us who weren't lucky enough to have parents had to grow up a lot earlier than 18. It's still possible to be a crazy fun person and still accept adult responsibilities, even as a teenager.

I certainly see your point here but as you pointed out society doesn't want people to grow up and be adults at 18. It's not impossible but it is difficult to rebel against something that is so ingrained in society. High school for starters in many cases keeps kids from becoming adults, and for some people going to college right after high school is merely an extension of their childhood. Is it possible for someone to function like an adult at the age of 18? of course it is. But it certainly isn't an easy thing to do.

See I have a bit of a problem with what you're saying (in the most respectful way possible, of course).

Throughout human history, until about fifty years ago, 18 was an adult. It would be perfectly normal for an 18 year old to be married, holding down a job, and taking on responsibilities. Humans haven't "changed" in 50 years, we're still perfectly capable of whatever we were 2-3 generations ago. Ultimately what it comes down to is a combination of people not wanting to grow up, and society not wanting us to grow up.

It's not my place to tell people they should act like an adult, or whether or not it's okay to still be a child well into their 20's (or 30's in some cases). But I do strongly disagree with the assertion that they are not capable or otherwise ready to take on the responsibility. If they "aren't", it is because they choose not to be.

I'd also point out that some of us who weren't lucky enough to have parents had to grow up a lot earlier than 18. It's still possible to be a crazy fun person and still accept adult responsibilities, even as a teenager.

My grandmother was 10 when she started working outside the home to earn money to support her family. My dad was more fortunate: while he worked a lot of jobs as a teenager, he at least graduated High School; he joined the Navy and never went to College. I had very "optional" jobs (the 'spending money only' kind) throughout College, and started truly living on my own (totally without parental support) when I was 21.

I have three kids (ages 26, 22, and 20), so I'm of the same age of those who are kicking the 18-year-olds to the curb. And I think this: the world is a much different place than when I was 18 (and that world was much different than when my dad was 18, etc.). There are fewer opportunities for long-term employment. The nature of the good jobs are, for the most part, much more complex, requiring advanced skills. Less skilled Union work, which paved the way for many non-college kids to earn a decent wage and benefits back in the day (and even in my day as an 18-year-old), is largely gone. The world seems much more dangerous. And you need coping skills that, frankly, a lot of us didn't have that much of when we were that age.

At the same time, some parents seem to think that the world hasn't changed since when they were 18, or maybe that because they've matured they've managed to see the world as it "really is". They feel the opportunities exist, that kids shouldn't be coddled, to go "out there" and "make a living".

Some kids do, and I admire them for that, but there seems to be a lot more scraping and getting by.

I had two roommates in College who were engineers -- when they graduated with their Bachelor's (mid-1980s), they got multiple offers with starting salaries of around $35,000 a year. That would be almost $80,000 a year in today's dollars!! Where can you find opportunities like that now? Yet the parents who are tossing out the 18-year-olds are likely thinking back to those halcyon years -- or at least their opinions are strongly flavored by them -- and thinking that, if the kids work hard enough, they, too, can have such success.

Although I want the best for my kids, I am under no such illusions. And I think the historical trend continues. If we saw 10-year-olds going out to work in laundromats (as my grandmother did) because their siblings were starving, we'd be calling the police and Child Protective Services. My dad would never qualify for the Systems Analyst job he held for 34 years today because he never got a college degree.

So, in a way, the parents today are of a generation where 18-year-olds being able to make it on their own was not unheard of (and perhaps the echo of their parents telling them of their travails echoes loudly). I'm pretty convinced we have 'advanced' -- or 'retreated', depending on your worldview -- to a point where 18-year-olds might be better suited to stay in the nest a couple more years.

So here's the thing, the world has changed and it's harder to make a good living. It's not impossible, but you can't just wait for it to happen. The world is a lot more competitive and if you want to survive, then you have to have the ambition and the perseverance and the skills. And the only way to have that is to have that developed while you're growing up. Naturally, there's a lot of things out there to help you: the right school, the right programs, the right friends and mentors, and that stuff is outside of your control sometimes, but if you have the ambition and can work hard, you can position yourself as close to those advantages as possible.

ClosetOtaku mentioned his friends getting ridiculously good offers straight out of college. I can tell you that those opportunities still exist. But again, there's a lot more competition. I graduated in 2011, and I and most of my friends were had technical degrees (math, science, engineering). Our post-graduate offers could be categorized by two groups. There was the group who went into industry: all of them received multiple offers to work at large tech firms or startups with generous salaries and benefits. And there was the group of us who stayed in academia and went on to do research at top-tier departments.

Why were we able to do this? It's because our school was special and gave us two years of work experience through multiple internships. This is a huge advantage, since it gave us access to a pool of really good employers and jobs, it gave us a way to pay off our tuition and make a decent amount of money, and it filled out our resume. Of course, not everyone has access to an incredible resource like this, but again, you have to work to get every advantage you can get. All of us in high school worked hard and had the ambition to find out about the programs and schools that were out there and to actually get into our university and it paid off massively.

So yeah, kids probably aren't prepared when they're 18. But the takeaway here isn't to let kids stick around for a bit longer to learn all of this stuff, it's that you have to start instilling all of this ambition and drive and responsibility earlier. I wasn't self-sufficient when I was 18, but I knew what I was going to do and worked at it and less than a year later, I landed my first internship, got some real responsibilities and money, learned some life skills, and that was it, I was set.

This probably sounds horrible because it sounds like I'm saying you have to work harder, and in a way I am. But the lesson isn't to throw yourself at a wall, it's that you have to learn about all the advantages you can get and actually take advantage of them instead of just floating around hoping something will fall into your lap. It's my econ prof who said that the world is getting a lot more competitive because the field of competition is opening up to the entire world and the scary thing is that there are a lot of really ambitious people out there.

^ I have to agree with everything ClosetOtaku said. And as an addenendum: It's not fair for those who have coddled their kids through their lives to suddenly expect those same kids to be able to go out and support themselves with none of the skills that the parents themselves had when they left the nest. That's not fair to the kids, and the culture has changed so much it's unrealistic to expect things to work out as well as it did for the parents.

At the same time, I do see a certain leniency with parents that goes too far in the other direction - I had at least one friend that is allowed to live at her parent's house rent-free and virtually responsibility-free as long as she adhere's to her 'parent's house rules. She is 25. She has no desire to live on her own for as long as possible. Why should she when she gets such a sweet deal at home? She's treated as a child and thinks that's perfectly fine.

I don't. I think that there has to be some urging towards independence. Even if it's not immediately achievable, it should be there. There has to be something in between these two extremes.

I'm almost 30 and there are times I still act more like a kid than an adult. I am learning more on how to face things like a mature woman now, for which I am grateful.

Well I'm in my late 30s and I still live w/parents. I worry occasionally what will happen when they die.

rocklobster wrote:Well I'm in my late 30s and I still live w/parents. I worry occasionally what will happen when they die.

You are a special case, though. My friend is completely mentally and phsyically able to live on her own... she just has no desire to ever do it.

Atria35 wrote:And as an addenendum: It's not fair for those who have coddled their kids through their lives to suddenly expect those same kids to be able to go out and support themselves with none of the skills that the parents themselves had when they left the nest. That's not fair to the kids, and the culture has changed so much it's unrealistic to expect things to work out as well as it did for the parents.

I know a family member does that to their kid. They are brats and when teen age comes, they are going to have fun with that as they don't know now to do one thing in life.



I think a kid should learn from their parents at an early age about money and doing things around the house. The more they know how to cook, clean and how to save or send money, they will be better as they get older.

^ Amen, Roy

Roy Mustang wrote:I think a kid should learn from their parents at an early age about money and doing things around the house. The more they know how to cook, clean and how to save or send money, they will be better as they get older.

But parents can't sit around and expect their kids to know how to do these things because of instinct or something - it's like learning math, or reading, or writing. Someone needs to sit down and teach them how to do that.

Scouts programs aren't a bad idea either. No, I'm not implying that it's a substitute for the parents teaching their kids to be responsible adults.

Atria35 wrote:

Roy Mustang wrote:I think a kid should learn from their parents at an early age about money and doing things around the house. The more they know how to cook, clean and how to save or send money, they will be better as they get older.

But parents can't sit around and expect their kids to know how to do these things because of instinct or something - it's like learning math, or reading, or writing. Someone needs to sit down and teach them how to do that.

Well, that was what I was going at. As not just have them sit in and watch them. But learn as the parent teach them how to do those things.

I think the latin American cultures have the right idea. They think that you move out of the house when you get married. Colleges don't have dorms because they think you'll stay with your family in the city or rent out a place. I also laugh at the idea that when we turn 18 we are supposed to magically know everything we need to in order to carry out our lives. Studies show that people aren't really ready for that until at least 23.

But not every person by age 23 has a firm grip on where they want to get in life. While in the U.S. the age to vote is 18 and the drinking age is 21, it's not a one-size-fits-all kind of measurement on adulthood. You'll have people who mature quickly (due to any of a myriad of reasons) and those who don't mature quite as fast as the norm. Regardless of which side of the bell curve, I think it's fair to say there should be a steady forward progression of growth and maturity, and I'm not gonna put a strict deadline on such a thing.

SierraLea wrote:I think the latin American cultures have the right idea. They think that you move out of the house when you get married. Colleges don't have dorms because they think you'll stay with your family in the city or rent out a place. I also laugh at the idea that when we turn 18 we are supposed to magically know everything we need to in order to carry out our lives. Studies show that people aren't really ready for that until at least 23.

This is interesting but it makes sense considering typically Latin American societies are more collectivist in nature than others. This is why there is a huge focus on families in those societies, and being part of the group is considered extremely important. People are far more comfortable in groups in Latin America than in Northern American societies.

In the US, individualism is king, that's why you see kids wanting to move out as soon as they turn 18 and why many families focus on trying to make their kids independent and some want their kids to move out when they turn adults.

SierraLea wrote:I think the latin American cultures have the right idea. They think that you move out of the house when you get married. Colleges don't have dorms because they think you'll stay with your family in the city or rent out a place. I also laugh at the idea that when we turn 18 we are supposed to magically know everything we need to in order to carry out our lives. Studies show that people aren't really ready for that until at least 23.

Which has it's own issues since there are people who get married who really aren't mature enough to get married and live on their own... but by legal definition of adulthood (reaching a certain age - 18 in America) can do as they please. I know people who've gotten married the moment they were old enough. That doesn't mean that they were mature enough or mentally prepared to deal with marriage.

And, like the others have said, there is an inherent difference in Latino culture and American culture that mean it's far from a one-size-fits-all fix.

Latino here. I want to address some things that have been siad about Latin american culture. I agree that Latino culture is collectivist as in we have a large focus on family as opposed to ourselvs alone as an individual. It isn't true for all Latinos that we move out when we get married. Although it is a cultural thing.

In latino families, many parents don't mind too much that their son or daughter is staying with them after they are 18. My dad moved out of the house to live in the U.S when he was in his early to middle 30's. Some of my aunts and uncles(some of whom have children and are married) still live with my grandparents. This would be looked down upon in the U.S though. When people are ready and want to move out they do and if they can't manage they come back. That's how it works for some of us.

Regardless it is still important to be taught,or learn individually, how to live and be responsible like an adult no matter how old you are or your culture (even if you are a child it wouldn't hurt to learn 1 basic thing). My dad wasn't taught how to be a handyman by his grandfathers like my uncles were, but he learned how to do plumbing, basic electrician things, and other house maintenance things when he flipped houses with his brother in law and someone else they knew. Now my dad knows more than his brothers on how to do these things and is trying to teach me these things as well.

I didn't post earlier because this seemed like more of a individualist U.S cultural problem of parents kicking out teens because they are considered adults and expecting them to be independent and responsible. I think it can be done but it would be really difficult for the teen or young adult to do so in the current conditions in the U.S now. This might be a problem for other individualist culture countries but I'm not sure of that or know.
Edit
Sorry for the long post. I forgot to mention that it is not uncommon to see latino families have multi generation households where the grandparents live with their adult children and help to take care of their grandchildren.