For those using the Pimsleur Programs: An effective method to try:

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For those using the Pimsleur Programs: An effective method to try:

Postby Azier the Swordsman » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:10 pm

For anyone using the Pimsleur Language Courses:

I have actually discovered a more effective method of using the programs rather than the way the say to use them:

Now, I have done quite a bit of experimenting with this method, and it has become extremely effective for me, as a matter of fact, my comprehension of Japanese has reached new levels. I've almost completely graduated the Level One Course and have successfully retained virtually EVERYTHING.

But first, how I developed my method:

When I first started using the Pimsleur Programs for my Japanese, I imediately noticed a couple of glaring faults.

For one, the good folks at Pimsleur claim that you only need to do each lesson once before going to the next. This, however, creates a problem, as despite the fact that the programs ARE repitious, repitious enough. The truth is, my first time using it, I ended up getting so bogged down with so much new information I felt my brain might go into overload. In addition, I wasn't retaining as much as I needed to, and my comprehension skills weren't as great. As a matter of fact, someone could say something to me I had already learned and it took quite a while before my brain translated what had just been said in my head. This led me to realize another fault:

Pimsleur has too much emphasis on speaking. Speaking is good, however, if you don't practice LISTENING and tune your COMPREHENSION of the language first, then SPEAKING is pretty much useless. This was my problem; I could speak what I knew, but my brain was not properly attuned to the speaking part.

This led me to begin searching and experimenting with other methods with which the Pimsleur method could be used, and I believe I discovered the winning formula.

Trust me, I have tested and researched it, and this method really works!

However, keep in mind that this method takes longer than Pimsleur's method.

Pimsleur's method takes 3 months to complete. (Using all three levels)

My method takes 9 months.

BUT the results are indeed a lot better!

Here's how I do it:

Start your current lesson, we will use lesson one as an example.
And let's assume you start on Monday.

The first step is to do the EXACT same lesson for three days in a row. Only spend a half hour on a day on the lesson. Play it ONCE, do not play it any more. Give the information a chance to sink into your brain.

Now, assuming that you start lesson 1 on Monday, and repeat it Tuesday and Wednesday, let's go to the next step.

The first two times you do a lesson, (In our example; Moday and Tuesday) DO NOT SPEAK ALOUD!

I'm not joking either. All you need to do is sit back and LISTEN. Just do nothing but LISTEN. Do not pronounce a word the first two days.

What this does is it programs your mind to instantly recongnize the words and phrases when you hear them, just like with the way you instantly recognize English when you hear it.

However, on the third day, we do it a bit differently.

Now, on the third day, (Wednesday in our example) this time SPEAK ALOUD to everything. Now that we have programmed our mind to RECOGNIZE the words, we now have them in us enough to be able to SPEAK them. As a matter of fact, the only barrier to fluency in what you know now is the practicing of pronouncition.

This is how to do each lesson, three times, three days in a row. Listen the first two days, speak the third day.

And remember, only play the lesson once per day. You MUST give your brain a chance to rest, that way when you hear the words the next day, they have a better chance of truly sinking in. If you want to practice speaking, practice on you own WITHOUT the lesson running.

When you do future lessons, on your LISTENING days, do not pronounce a single word, not even ones you already know. Your brain needs to continually be reinforced with the words and meanings. It is my personal observation that when you do nothing but SPEAK, your brain is far too focused on HOW to speak the word, and it is not quite as focused on comprehending or reatining it.

To prove my theory holds water, think about this: When we first learned our first language, (English for most of us here) we heard it for YEARS before we began to try to pronounce it. The average child doesn't begin to speak until they are a couple of years old. Their brains have, for that long period of time, been doing nothing but soaking up the language. They only begin to speak after it has gotten so absorbed into them.

This is how God wired our brains, and I believe the best method for learning is to use what God has instilled within us to it's full advantage.

And don't forget that when using this method, participate in activities that enhance your understanding:

Learn the Hiragana and Katakana as soon as you begin learning Japanese.

And begin learning the Kanji as soon as possible. Learning the Kanji is a TREMENDOUS help in increasing your vocabulary. (I will post my methods for the Kanji later).

Watch anime subbed AND raw.

Raw anime is good because your mind is not so focused on reading the subtitles but the action on the screen. This is a great way to pick up words.

Watching with subtitles has it's advantages as well as you can learn a lot of variations on what you already know.

Make Japanese friends.


The above method is what has worked the most for me. I'm simply sharing my discoveries in hopes it will help others. Paul Pimsleur had some excellent insites into the workings of learning language which he put into his courses, I've merely added onto them.

Feel free to tweak my method to suit your own needs should you decide to give it a whirl. Just thought I'd share my discoveries with you all. :thumb:
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Postby panegryst » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:55 pm

ああ、 そうですね。 I also have found that switching from watching mostly dubbed to all subbed anime has reeeaaalllly improved my 'comprehension speed'.
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Postby ClosetOtaku » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:53 pm

This sounds like very good advice; I've been trying to learn Japanese (and Korean) for a while, using Pimsleur as a crutch, but I think I'll re-try using your method and see what happens. Thanks!
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Postby shooraijin » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:00 pm

I will say that when I started watching Urusei Yatsura, which AnimEigo offers in sub form only, I got a lot better at comprehension also. Still working on it though.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:37 pm

Yeah... Animeigo's UY subs are the best, because they offer so much insight into Japanese culture and history... The movies are particularly good, though I think since the second one is done by another company, they don't have the liner notes... They at least still used Animeigo's subs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby shooraijin » Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:43 pm

They're skimping on the liner notes, though. The third movie had the liner notes as a DVD menu instead of a card you could follow along with. Uncool (they'd better fix this by #4, which is actually already available for order -- mine's on the way). I hope they didn't do that to the TV box set that they're currently readying for release.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan

I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
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Postby Mangafanatic » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:42 am

I really need to buy Pimsleur's Course. It's just-- so expensive!!!
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.

Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.

But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:00 am

http://www.cheappimsleur.com/

It's less than half price... That's where I got mine from. That's still a lot but you can resell on ebay for like 140 bucks so you're really only paying 22 bucks (including shipping) for each set... There are other languages too... A lot, in fact. They have most of the languages at this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby plutogrl03 » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:33 pm

Thanks Azier. I'm just now trying to learn Japanese on my own. I don't have the Pimsleur (and probably won't have it any time soon) but I have found other materials that will help me alot. I'm going to try to put your language strategy into practice.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:09 pm

shooraijin wrote:They're skimping on the liner notes, though. The third movie had the liner notes as a DVD menu instead of a card you could follow along with. Uncool


That's better than most companies... Most companies don't do notes at all... That's really annoying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby plutogrl03 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:14 pm

I was in the Hastings store up here and I found an 8 CD Pimsleur course for Japanese and a few other languages. I can't remember what was all included, but it was $50!! (I can't even spare that right now). If there is a good sized Hastings in your area, you might want to check the book/language section or check their website.
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Postby shooraijin » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:42 pm

That's the one I have. It's a good deal, I thought.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan

I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
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I finally got it!

Postby plutogrl03 » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:35 pm

I got to buy the 8 CD Pimsleur course for Japanese today!! I can't wait to start putting Azier's method to use. Wish me luck!! :thumb:
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