Light vs. Dark?

[Kilvakar]

OK, I'm sure this has been talked about here before, but I wanted to ask about why so many people prefer darker, more violent action series (like Attack on Titan) over the more light-hearted action shows (like Fairy Tail).

I wanted to ask this question after reading so many reviews and comments on two of my favorite series, Bleach and Fairy Tail, both of which have always tended to avoid killing off good characters and use what you would call the "power of friendship" power-up style regularly. Without giving away too many spoilers, both of these series have taken a much "darker" turn in their latest arcs, with many more sad moments and even character deaths in each series than ever before. What surprised me is that many, if not most, of the comments I've read are people saying that the current arcs in both series are the best yet, primarily because the reviewers are happy to see character deaths and more sinister plot developments.

Now, I understand that to keep readers interested in the story you can't just have the heroes easily win each and every battle, but personally (and this is just my personal opinion) I've always enjoyed watching and reading series where despite the challenges, the good side wins out in the end. The whole "power of friendship" thing tends to be reviled in the anime fan community, but I've never had a problem with it. In fact, most of the time I really enjoy it, as it makes for some really epic scenes. Also, as a Christian I feel it's more uplifting to see happy endings where good triumphs over evil than to see pyrrhic victories where the heroes "win" but their friends are dead and their world (whatever that may be) has been altered beyond recognition.

Anyway, what are your opinions on the subject? Do you prefer series with a lighter or darker tone? Do you enjoy seeing characters killed off? Is the "power of friendship" dumb? Are happy endings boring? And most importantly, why do you like/dislike these things?

All I ask is that we stay polite and remember that everyone has different opinions on these things. Thanks!

[nillapoet]

I enjoy both. I prefer lighter stuff with cool fight sequences, where sometimes the good guys get beat up but ultimately win. Once in a while I like something darker like Madoka Magica.

[ClosetOtaku]

In my college days, I dated an art major who was taking a photography class. She would wander the streets of downtown Pittsburgh looking for objects and subjects to photograph. At one point, she encountered an old woman. She took several photographs of this woman -- portraits, her worn face framed by the surrounding urban environment. My girlfriend then submitted two of these photographs as part of her homework.

The professor was upset at one photograph, while she praised the quality of the other. The difference? The photograph that she disliked showed the old woman smiling. The photograph she liked had the old woman with an unhappy expression, not quite a scowl, but looking quite beaten down. Everything else in the photographs was the same -- the lighting, the background, and so on. "Always show suffering," was the jist of professor's critique.

"Doom, despair, and agony on me" plays well in both academic and societal circles, from literature to movies to country music. Hobbes' contention (in Leviathan) that "continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short," sets the tone for our entertainment appetites. Suffering is "real". Lighthearted comedy is "escapist". Pleasures such as friendship, laughter, and 'happily ever after' are the stuff of fairy tales, according to the world's view. "That story," says Anne Sexton in Cinderella before suffocating herself with the car exhaust fumes.

I suppose the philosophy is appealing because it makes viewers feel the stories are "cutting edge", that they are "hip" for watching (and enjoying) because the brutality of existence is set in plain sight. But C.S. Lewis lampoons this view in The Screwtape Letters. "Ugh! I don't think He [God] has the least inkling of that high and austere mystery to which we rise in the Miserific Vision. He's vulgar, Wormwood." Things that may actually be pleasing are ephemeral, if not downright illusory, when compared to the 'reality' of pain. At least, so say the demons.

Don't get me wrong -- conflict and pain make for good drama. But are these 'Real'? If you are a Christian, you know (or should know) that they are absent in the Far Future. They are symptoms of a disease the world imagines is incurable. But the Cure has already been effected, and in God's time (beyond the veil of this world) they will not only be remedied but, it appears, also forgotten.

So, then, if we want to debate "good anime", and feel that one anime that has character deaths and a generally dark mood is better than another one that shows friendship and puppy dogs and unicorns, I suppose that's all right. After all, I too like "Madoka Magica" better than "Ouran High School Host Club". But we shouldn't imagine that the darker anime is inherently better simply because it is darker. In the end, things we would like to enjoy -- loyalty and self-sacrifice and teamwork -- along with cool autumn nights under the stars and good food and sound sleep -- will triumph. That we are so attracted to the dark matter right now is too a symptom of the great disease, and we need to be careful how much of our souls we give over to it.

[Nate]

I couldn't disagree more. I feel that stuff that contains lots of conflict, death, etc., is popular because it is something people can relate to, to a degree. I mean obviously people can't really relate to stuff like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, that exists purely for shock value/enjoyment of horror, but stories that have no conflict, no bad things...these aren't realistic. They are escapism because it's the viewer wanting to retreat to a nice safe place where nothing is wrong, everything is happy and wonderful, and they don't have to think about the bad things. It's not real life. It's fantasy.

People can't relate to the person who grew up with everyone loving them and wanting to be their friend and their family being perfect. There were bullies in school. There were those who just flat out didn't like us, or made fun of us. People who we felt wronged us. There were perhaps times when, even if your mom or dad was doing what was right in punishing you, you felt hurt or angry at them. Times when your parents did something to hurt you, upset you. Or just losing a family member, whether by accident or old age.

We can relate to the character who gets picked on. We can relate to the character who loses their mother in a tragic accident, because we know that pain. We can sympathize with them. It's hard to sympathize with a character who never has anything go wrong with them, whose life is perfect and nothing bad happens. We can enjoy that character, of course, we can like them, we can wish that we were that character...but we're not. We never will be. It's a distraction from our real lives. That doesn't make it bad or unhealthy unless it becomes an obsession (see people who think that being in My Little Pony would make their lives perfect and thus their lives revolve around the show), but it is important to recognize it for what it is.

Again, I'm not saying that shows with lots of death or violence are inherently better, nor are they always relateable...as I said before, something like say, Saw isn't a work that anyone is really going to be able to relate to because that's just kind of a ridiculous scenario. But even something as simple as Madoka Magica has characters that can be related to. Maybe somebody did have a very sick friend they were in love with, maybe someone grew up poor and had very little food, maybe someone grew up wishing they could help a friend that they deeply love, there's a lot to latch on to in there, even if we don't have magical girls and witches in the real world, it still starts off with characters that have familiar problems and that we can identify with. Much more than most people can identify with the main character from, I dunno, Hello Kitty.

[WorldsTraveler]

I’m glad someone brought this up. I’ve been thinking about this a lot…

Personally, I subscribe to a Plato-like view: I believe our entertainment should enrich us, show us the best that could be, inspire us to greater heights, and help us create an ideal society. Most of the shows I’ve grown up with and still watch are along those lines (StarTrek, My Little Pony, etc.) I find it has helped me to navigate life when I know how to achieve win-win scenarios, how to resolve conflicts peacefully, what a healthy relationship looks like, and so on.

In fact, I used to think that dark entertainment made for dark people. But many healthy people I know are less sensitive than I am and have been more open to enjoying darker tales. I have not noticed any change in their behavior from this, so I presume that they are either very well-balanced people or they are consuming it in enough moderation to be safe.

What I have noticed that I can report for certain is this: people are drawn to entertainment they can relate to. We all want to be understood and validated. Most people want to be able to point to the main characters and say, “Yes, that’s what my life is like!” (Nate made this point already, but I’ll expand on it a bit in my own words.)

Many of the people I see enjoying darker stories seem to enjoy it because they can relate to it. They don’t live in a world of empowerment – they live in a world where they see themselves as victims. People around them do not appear to be exhibiting trust, honor, or virtue. Their relationships are rough and dramatic. Hence, they gravitate towards entertainment that portrays that as ‘normal’, because to them, it is! (ClosetOtaku made some good points about the spiritual realm element of this too.)

I live in America, and quite frankly, the condition here of the average human being is… uninspiring. So I can understand why our entertainment is skewed in that direction. I don’t know how Japan is doing right now in terms of the personal happiness, emotional wellbeing, and lifestyle of their citizens. But I’ve noticed it is easier to find hopeful anime to watch than American shows.

I might add more later. I want to think about it and see what others have to say.

[Kilvakar]

Very interesting viewpoints, I think all of you have very valid ideas.

I agree with you Nate that people are often attracted to series with darker moods because they've had bad things happen in their lives. And let's face it, we all have. And WorldsTraveler is right too, in that liking darker stuff doesn't automatically make you a "dark" person. I do think that people tend to gravitate toward types of entertainment that mirror their general outlook on life, though, so someone with a more positive view of the world would usually be more attracted to entertainment with positive messages and moods, while someone with a less positive view would probably lean the other way.

ClosetOtaku, I think your viewpoint matches mine almost exactly, though. Enjoying lighthearted entertainment shouldn't be thought of as "escapism" (unless, like Nate pointed out, it becomes an obsession) because despite the fact that we live in a fallen, imperfect, and sometimes dark world, we were *meant* to live in a perfect and happy world without sin or suffering, and that is how the world will be again someday. And this is why your stereotypical hero stories are always so popular. Despite the inescapable fact that bad things are going to happen in life, we like to hear and see scenarios where good wins and evil gets the beatdown it so justly deserves, just as all evil will one day be purged from this world forever.

As for which anime series are better, well, some shows are just better made than others, regardless of their mood. I asked this question more to get people's feelings on whether or not they preferred the "lighter" or "darker" themed series and why. Also, just to clarify, I'm mostly comparing similar series (action-focused shows) rather than extreme examples like "Deadman Wonderland vs. My Little Pony." Some genres are just too different to be compared like that, lol!

One specific subject I'd like to hear your views on would the matter of character deaths. I've noticed that a lot of people seem to think that a series is badly written if none of the good characters (especially main characters) die. I can't tell you how many comments I've heard praising the authors for killing off characters when they previously were reluctant to do so. Of course, having other characters die to provide motivation for the Main Character is one of the oldest plot devices in the book. (You killed my father, prepare to die!) But when a series establishes the general feeling that the characters you know and love are always going to pull through in the end suddenly decides to kill one (or more) of them, it can feel very out of place. What do you think? Does knowing the good guys will always win cheapen the story? Or do you get angry when a well-liked character dies to advance the plot? Is it poor writing to always have all the heroes alive at the end of a story? Looking forward to hearing more from everyone

[Xeno]

It's because you now don't know what to happen. If a show/story is willing to kill a main character then it means no one is sacred. Dangerous situations in shows were no one ever dies aren't thrilling or captivating, they're just things that happen. If writers are willing to off characters then every single instance of danger is the chance that MAYBE a character you like will die. I also creates internal conflict between the show's remaining characters, as they have to shift to fill the now vacant role played by the deceased character. Just killing characters for the sake of killing them is poor writing, but so is never doing if you're intent is to appeal to an audience that is over 14.

[WorldsTraveler]

Regarding character death, I think what upsets me most is when a character is killed solely for plot drama. If someone must die, I want it to feel like a natural, unavoidable occurrence in the flow of the story. And I want it to be treated with respect and used to further the growth of the rest of the cast. (The Christmas Carol being one of the best examples of this… even if everybody does live in the end LOL) So I’d say I accept it as long as it’s used properly. But I don’t necessarily like it.

Personally, I would rather see the characters keep struggling to live, so I don’t have to say goodbye to any of them. The characters are my precious windows into the life of the story. I learn about the story world through them and get attached to them. If one of them suddenly dies, it is very jarring to me and disturbs my viewing experience. And if one of my favorite characters dies, then I am especially upset! Not enough to stop reading/watching, but still!

On the other hand, I do think that in some instances it would be rather ridiculous to assume everyone lived. (For example, what would the Matrix trilogy have been like if everybody lived? Would we still take it seriously?) If the circumstances are that dire, people not surviving is realistic. But now we’re talking about genre. An action sci-fi and a comedy romance are on two different levels in regards to expectations and intensity. I expect someone to die in the action sci-fi. But I want a happily-ever-after-and-everybody-lives in the romantic comedy. Makes sense from a demographic standpoint too, right?

That said, I find stories that utilize the deaths of side characters to show how hard it was to gain victory to be… poetic? Epic? I like knowing there was a cost in reaching the resolution at the end.

So I’m actually on the fence about the issue, but leaning towards, “No, I don’t like character death, but I’ll accept it as an element of a good story if it’s well-done.” (And I’d debate with myself some more but it’s 2am and I’m losing coherency LOL)

[Anirac]

As Nate said, most people prefer the darker animes because they can relate to the story somehow. Since Ancient Greece tragedy is a genre that attracts masses. It may seem weird, since pain and suffering are things humans try to avoid, but watching something tragic helps us release our bottled up feelings. They can see themselves in the hero and their problems in the antagonist. When the antagonist dies or pays bitterly for their misdoings, people feel relieved. It is about being able to relate to the characters and the story. Dark stories are the enacting of the "an eye for an eye" rule. And the tragedy on the hero's side makes it all the more real. In the end, it's a natural thing that humans do.

That's my explanation for the dark tendency. Now, I personally think that although it is a natural thing to tend towards darker stories, it is not the ideal way. As Christians, we are to forgive and to seek good in every aspect of our lives. I too prefer happier stories, in which brains and friendship save the day. Or just stories that have nothing to save, lives that exist just to learn and enjoy. That's why I like the slice of life genre so much. Doing whatever is natural to us is easy. But natural doesn't always mean good; as humans, we should strive for what is good. It is quite easy to hate, it is very hard to forgive.

Giving praise, saying nice things, hoping for a happy ending are seen are childish and weak. Being witty and mean is what is cool nowadays. Cinderella is now reviled because she is so kind-hearted. People want rebellious, sexy, powerful, "that perfect girl is gone" Elsa. With values like these, no wonder My Little Pony would be seen as "ew, no" and Attack on Titan would be "COOLEST ANIME EVER MADE MUST WATCH IT'S MY FAVORITE NOW!".

[Thunderscream872]

When I talk about character deaths in this post, I’m talking specifically about deaths of main/significant “good guys”. I have different opinions on killing off villains and minor characters.

When there’s that chance that important characters can die, get tortured, or have something else horrible happen to them, it adds a certain sense of urgency and suspense that you just don’t get from a show that is never gonna step out of the “safe zone”. Now, that being said, threat of death isn’t the only thing that can add suspense. Is it effective? In some cases, yes; but in no way is it the only way—it’s just silly to think that, and it’s not realistic.

As far as relatability goes, killing characters off can definitely be an effective tool for developing the other characters, and creating a relatable situation, but simply having character deaths doesn’t makes one show more relatable than another. There are plenty of ways you can make a story (even an action story) connectable without killing anyone off. For example, characters struggle with themselves, the people around them, and their environment; they also build certain connections to certain other characters/things, and those other characters don’t need to die for their relationship to develop. Effective drama does not equal character deaths, and a story doesn’t need to kill significant characters off to be entertaining.

Most of the time, I don't want to see the characters I really like die. I'd rather see them live. That being said, there are certain characters that I really liked whose deaths I feel were a benefit to the overall story.

I’m not really gonna talk about “dark” vs “light”; because everyone has their own interpretations of those definitions. I’ve heard some people say that Bleach is dark—I don’t think it is, but some people hold that opinion. I also know people who say that FMA/FMA:B is really dark, which, again, I disagree. When I think of the dark anime I’ve seen, I immediately think of the ones like Elfen Lied, Psycho Pass, and Deadman Wonderland, in which the themes and overall mood feel allot darker. For me, simply cause something has conflict, a certain level of intensity, death, and high stakes doesn’t make it a dark piece of fiction; I think it has allot more to do with the mood of the story, and the worldview it presents.

Generally, I really don’t know what I prefer. My top five anime are Gurren Lagann, FMA, Steins;Gate, Death Note, and Blast of Tempest. My favorite non-anime are Avatar: The Last Airbender and Breaking Bad. So, someone can try to make something out of that if they want.

For me, good needs to win in the end (of the show, not every episode) for me to really enjoy it. Now, this doesn’t mean the protagonist wins/lives, but rather the concept of good prevails regardless of the personal goals of the characters. I do prefer happy endings (bittersweet endings are really good too), but I don’t like the idea that all the world’s problems can be solved very simply, and by the end of the show the world is one big utopia—personally I find that concept ridiculous. For me, happy endings are more about what place the characters are in at the end and not about the state of the world.

Is it poor writing to always have all the heroes alive at the end of a story?

No, not at all. It all depends on how it’s handled by the writers.

Oh, yeah, and I think the whole “power of friendship” thing is cool. It doesn’t need to be in an anime for me to enjoy it, but when it’s in there, it definitely adds something special to the story. I prefer to have main characters who are self-sacrificing rather than ones are purely motivated by selfish desires—that’s a whole other long post that I don’t feel like writing right now though, lol.

[ClosetOtaku]

Breaking Bad was one of those shows that I got into because I could relate to Walter White. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: I could relate to his problems and compassion, even as he killed his first victim. And I think the point of the show was that the person he was was gradually replaced by a person i couldn't relate to, a person capable of true evil. That was some masterful writing and direction. And it is one of the few shows -- unlike Lost, Dexter, or even Twin Peaks, that didn't "break faith" with its viewers. Many anime break faith as well.

[Mullet Death]

I feel that some anime fans are the dog from Disney's Up; they think what they're currently obsessed with deserves their full and undivided attention and is the greatest arc or series ever even if they were saying that about every arc that came before it. ""Oh yeah that most recent Fairy Tail arc tops everything Hiro's written so far and.. -SQUIRREL!" Though I have kept up with the anime for both Bleach and Fairy Tail and loved them, I haven't read the manga, so can't speak on that subject any further. The point being that if people think this current stuff is the best yet even if it's taking an uncharacteristically dark tone comes as no surprise to me.

I definitely prefer manga and anime that have a lighter tone to them, or are well-written in that they can be described as overall upbeat, but broad enough to include realistic or relatable human suffering. Art obviously reflects the desires of the human heart. Though this will be frequently twisted in the form of the not-so-good desires of the fallen human heart, ultimately our hearts were made for God. We all want love, intimacy, happily ever after, friendship, good food and drink, an end to suffering, and the ultimate triumph of good because these are what God has promised and/or are what this world should have been like. I like franchises that tend to focus on good rather than bad, because I don't believe that life is suffering even if it has plenty of suffering in it. I'd like to believe we are headed for something better. I don't like and even despise stories that make me dwell on dark, heavy-handed, "God is dead, take the red pill and see the world for how awful it really is" type of stuff. I don't need art validating my worst, most oppressively pessimistic thoughts and enhancing my psychotic clinical depression. The art I consume should be edifying rather than destructive.

As for why, beyond that, some would prefer works with a darker tone, I can't really guess beyond what's been said already. Like I was stumbling around and trying to say maybe, like sin, it's all a twisted form of legitimate human desires. People see a lot of suffering in the world and don't have the perspective of God and the framework of his promises, so they have no hope, but nevertheless crave justice. The world should clearly be one way but instead it has a lot awful things, so obviously some art is going to showcase that. I suppose if you wanted to look at it another way, Christ has already taken on our suffering and conquered evil so we really shouldn't be afraid of it. Nevertheless, I'm going to continue to be careful about what I watch and read because the darker stuff invariably brings me down rather than just being though-provoking and edgy or whatever.

I don't know if anything I ever say ever say actually makes any sense to anyone but me when it comes to this serious stuff. Oh well. I tried.

[Nate]

Giving praise, saying nice things, hoping for a happy ending are seen are childish and weak.

Hoping for a happy ending isn't seen as childish or weak, but it is often seen as unrealistic, for good reason. There's a show called Kamen Rider Fourze where the main character, Gentarou, has a mission to become friends with everyone in the school. It's a great show! But if somebody in real life said that they were going to try and make friends with everyone in their school, they'd be seen as foolish and naive, yes, because that's literally impossible in real life. The fact of the matter is that you just can't please everybody, and there are people who will not care for your personality or just don't want to become friends for one reason or another. Someone who was abused by someone close to them, for example, may have no desire to want to become friends with a complete stranger because of the fear of being abused again, that this person will use their trust against them. And that's not the fault of the person trying to be friends, but it is a barrier that may be impossible to overcome.

Happy endings are nice but it's unrealistic to expect them to always happen in the real world. Happy endings do happen of course and it's great when they do! But expecting it in every situation can potentially be dangerous.

Cinderella is now reviled because she is so kind-hearted.

I'm pretty sure Cinderella is reviled because Disney has been releasing dumb sequels including the most recent one which involves time-travel. I've never heard of anyone saying "Cinderella is dumb because she's too nice!"

Also the Brothers Grimm version of Cinderella was kinda dark, when the prince and Cinderella got married, birds came and pecked out the eyes of the stepsisters and made them blind. :V

With values like these, no wonder My Little Pony would be seen as "ew, no"

Pretty sure it's the creepy brony fanbase talking about how they want to have sex with the ponies and drawing porn of them that makes people see My Little Pony as "ew, no."

[Midori]

Sorry this post is so long, but this is something I think about a lot. While I tend to appreciate both "light" and "dark" shows, it really varies, and it's a much more complex issue than simply "does this show have bad things happening in it or not".

There are "dark" works that I like and "dark" works that I don't. Mostly, it comes down to the worldview depicted in the work. If the work seems to promote a nihilistic or hedonistic view of life (such as, "life is all suffering so we may as well all kill each other", or "nothing good comes of trying to do good, so don't try"), I can't really get behind it. But if the author of the work seems to believe in some sort of concept of good and evil, even if there is a lot of evil in the story, I find it a lot more fulfilling.

I have an admission to make. I have kind of a fascination with violence (as depicted in art; real violence makes me cringe at best). It's a pretty undeniable part of my taste. If I were to run with this fascination without actually thinking about it, I'm pretty sure it'd be a fetish for gore and death. But instead I'm someone who believes in redeeming concepts by searching for the meaning behind them. I can't really tell you what the meaning behind violence in art is. I'm still searching for it. But I can say that in the end, honestly depicted violence brings about profound sadness more than anything else. Violence is scary and heartbreaking.

And that's basically the measure I tend to hold art to, I think. If a story seems to make little of death and suffering, it grates on my nerves. This is the problem I have with a certain very popular webcomic epic (which I otherwise quite like). Instead, I like it when a story truly depicts bad things as bad. To give some examples of really dark things that I really liked, there's Pulp Fiction and Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni. Shows like these are full of people doing evil things, and evil things being done to people. Good does not always win. There may not even be any good characters sometimes. But the important thing is that good exists, and as a concept it is not diminished by the evil that is waged around it. And even if evil is rampant, it is exposed as truly evil, rather than simply "the way things work".

Let's bring this down to one of the specific questions asked by the OP, regarding characters I like being killed. I tend to measure these moments by the same standard: whether the death is truly sad. When characters I like are killed and it's really tragic, I do get really sad. Sometimes angry. Sometimes I feel betrayed by the author. But I wouldn't call this bad storytelling. It doesn't usually tweak my moral nerves. It mirrors an aspect of reality that is undeniable by anybody but the most head-in-the-sand optimist: good people die. Even as we speak, people in some parts of the world are being systematically murdered for no other reason than their ethnicity or religion.

No, I don't think there's a problem with a story when good characters die. What makes me wonder is when characters I don't really like are killed. Minor characters. Ugly characters. Or sometimes even bad characters. When a bystander is killed simply because the author needs to establish the danger of a situation. Or when the author needs to kill a character for plot reasons, so they make that character less relatable, say, by making them ugly, or a jerk, or faceless. Is it more okay for people to die if we don't like them? Video games have this problem a lot too. I used to play old first person shooters like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, where the enemies have human faces and voices. You can worry about my mental health that I was okay killing virtual people like that, but at least it was clear. In some more recent FPSes, often the enemies have face-concealing masks and electronically distorted voices. It's like a sign saying "It's okay to shoot this person." That worries me.

When a good person dies, it can make me quite sad and scared. When Joe Rando dies, it just makes me feel a little bit detached, like there's something slightly wrong. And if I know anything about spirituality, a feeling of slight wrongness is often a more serious indicator of danger to my soul than anguish or terror.

Let me finish by clarifying that my focus on dark stories in this post isn't meant to indicate that I don't like or care about light stories. I often quite enjoy lighter happier fun stories. I do sometimes think they're a kind of escapism or wish-fulfillment fantasy, but I think a reasonable amount of that can be healthy.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Don't get me wrong -- conflict and pain make for good drama. But are these 'Real'? If you are a Christian, you know (or should know) that they are absent in the Far Future. They are symptoms of a disease the world imagines is incurable. But the Cure has already been effected, and in God's time (beyond the veil of this world) they will not only be remedied but, it appears, also forgotten.

I don't see of God or faith as particularly this all-encompassing light. I think the condition of things, including the divine, encompasses a lot of darkness. Darkness isn't something to shy or grow away from, but rather something we ought to be mindful and connected with.

Breaking Bad was one of those shows that I got into because I could relate to Walter White. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: I could relate to his problems and compassion, even as he killed his first victim. And I think the point of the show was that the person he was was gradually replaced by a person i couldn't relate to, a person capable of true evil. That was some masterful writing and direction. And it is one of the few shows -- unlike Lost, Dexter, or even Twin Peaks, that didn't "break faith" with its viewers. Many anime break faith as well.

Agreed. Walter White was a monster, but I think even at the end he's able to redeem himself. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: He's akin to an emotionally abusive and manipulative father towards his "son" Jesse, and it's the very end where Walter lets go of his controlling grasp on him.

[Nate]

Man it still threw me for a loop when I found out the guy who plays Walter White was the dad in Malcom in the Middle.

[mdmrn]

Cinderella is now reviled because she is so kind-hearted.

I'm pretty sure Cinderella is reviled because Disney has been releasing dumb sequels including the most recent one which involves time-travel. I've never heard of anyone saying "Cinderella is dumb because she's too nice!"

Also the Brothers Grimm version of Cinderella was kinda dark, when the prince and Cinderella got married, birds came and pecked out the eyes of the stepsisters and made them blind. :V

I'm going to first respond to this before going on to the heart of the question because...why not. As a Dad with 4 little kids, I have seen the Cinderella of which you speak in which there is time travel & they change the course of history in Cinderella. It was...fascinating, kept my attention as an adult, and worth watching. Cinderella 3 seemed like a strange idea at the time, but in the end - I rather enjoyed it. There, I said it. I can admit it. I enjoyed Cinderella 3. Also, it created some serious depth of character for the evil step sisters who weren't flat and one of them actually you can watch grow as a person while being manipulated by her step-mother throughout the film. But, I digress.

Regarding darkness vs light in anime? I think a lot of people have touched on some great points. As fallen beings, we do feel drawn to the darkness. People enjoy the apocalyptic. They enjoy things like Attack on Titan, which is brutal, violent, and pretty much over the top in both of those regards. Yes, there are things to be related to, but you can find relatable characters in light hearted anime/manga. But, in darkness we see a few things. First, we see the world as we see it. We all realize the world is darker than it should be. We see death, terrorism, murder, cancer. We see this darkness over everyone and are drawn to example worlds which also include that darkness. Sure, we don't have titans biting off people's heads in reality, but we live in a world where terrorists walk into buildings and blow up schools, malls, and comedy magazines. We live in a world where cancer will slowly kill us from the inside out. We live in a world of disease, hunger. We have evils in this world and they are vast. We don't think about these evils all the time, but they are here. Through these darker anime series' we are imagining in a world more like our own than we actually realize.

Second, we are looking for light inside of a dark world. A light hearted series with lighthearted characters can be fun, but in a darker series - the light shines even brighter. We see the light brighter in the darkness than we do when it's already bright. In Attack on Titan (of which I had to drop, it's far too violent for me to keep watching), the camaraderie and brotherhood of the soldiers shines through as a beacon of hope in a dark world. The willing self-sacrifice of some of the characters for their friends, shines through. It shines light on these little areas of hope in a truly dark world. In our world, we cling to these bright little lights of hope. These are where we see the Lord face to face. Those are the moments where God shines through, even in the darkness of our world. When a mother forgives her son's murderer and teaches him about Jesus we see His light shining through in a darkening world (Here's that story: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/love-thy-neighbor-sons-killer-moves-next-door/).

Relatability is a factor, but I think it's because we relate not always with the characters - but the world & we see hope in that world, which leads us to seek and find hope in our own.

[Xeno]

We see death, terrorism, murder, cancer.
...
We live in a world where cancer will slowly kill us from the inside out.

Hi, just for the record, cancer isn't an "evil" it's just a thing that our own bodies do to themselves. It has no conscience or intent. Cancers are simply mutations of existing cells that then proceed to not work correctly, typically resulting in mass production of these mutated cells. Cancer can't be evil or dark since there is no intent behind it, it just kinda happens. To good and bad people alike.
Source: I'm a cancer survivor.

Terrorism, on the other hand, is a completely different ball game. Terrorists do think, they do have intent. So when they chop off the heads of hostages, fly planes into buildings, or murder magazine staff over a cartoon, there is malice and evil intent in these actions. The same with people who are just plain murderers, but not of the terrorist variety.

Also, death will happen to us all. I will die, you will die, your kids and their kids will die, that noisy neighbor down the street who likes to mow his yard at 8:30pm will die. It's not dark or evil or malicious or anything else. Our physical bodies have a time limit and those limits tend to expire, if something else doesn't just do it for us. This doesn't make death bad, just natural. If nobody ever died we would have a serious population issue on our hands.

[PLCDreamcatcher14]

After reading all this I can't help but wonder if my brain is wired backwards or something. I generally prefer darker things (stories, music, art, etc) but I have an optimistic view of life. I typically like things that combine both sides of the coin the best. Stories where the main character has some 'inner demon' like being born a monster, having killed someone in the past but regretting it, or having powers they struggle to control are ones I'm particularly drawn to. I like some apocalyptic/post-apocalyptic stuff, stories with lots of characters dying, and some with lots of bad characters doing bad things but I still have strong morals. I think, for me personally, I connect to these things because they provoke an emotional response out of me. I cry for these characters. I cling to the bits of good that are there. And I feel so happy when they finally receive their light. Honestly, I find the bad and evil things out there to be a part of the beauty of the world. I fear evil but I don't feel like I should turn a blind eye to it. I build up the immunity of my soul in order to help treat the disease even though I know I can't cure it. I don't feel right by running away but much better by facing it. The evil and bad in the world are beautiful because the world is beautiful just like the evil and bad in us are beautiful because we're beautiful. God still loves us right, despite our flaws? Also, in life, there are times where there is no 'black/white' but gray and that struggle to determine what to do. Life is not always so clean cut and people are very complex with many layers of both 'angel' and 'demon'. I like trying to understand that and use that to help people and hopefully improve their lives a bit. To be honest, I kinda don't want the world to be perfect, one day yes but not while I'm alive because my life fills happy and fulfilled by having some evil to fight and some good to protect.

As far as the characters thing, it depends on the story and the characters. Sometimes it can get too depressing for me but other times, even if it was my favorite character, I actually feel better especially if there was some 'they're finally free now' or 'they're going home' or 'they were happy in the end' theme going on. I don't think it's bad writing for the good guys to win and everyone lives. I really love lighthearted stories too that make me smile and laugh and love people, life, and the world God created even more. Humor and light puts me in a good mood and makes me fall all the more love with the characters.

As to why people seem to like darker stories more than lighter ones...pretty much what everyone else has said. Though to add, I think sometimes people go for it cause it's 'cool' or 'exciting' or 'edgy' and 'mature'.

In conclusion, I like both dark and light stories though I tend to like dark a bit more. No I'm not gore obsessed nor suicidal nor do I hate/don't believe in God, life, or people. No these stories don't make me want to commit evil or give up on good. No they don't affect my morals. No I don't believe in hiding from evil. Yes stories with characters dying a lot can be depressing and I may avoid them sometimes. Yes I want all people to happy one day. Yes I still love God and everything he's created. Yes I'm probably some pretty difficult to understand weirdo. God Bless. The End.

And sorry for the suuuuuuuuuuuper long post.

[Nate]

The evil and bad in the world are beautiful

Yeah no child sex slavery is not beautiful, it is ugly and horrifying.

[PLCDreamcatcher14]

The evil and bad in the world are beautiful

Yeah no child sex slavery is not beautiful, it is ugly and horrifying.

I wasn't meaning it like that. I just meant that the world is still beautiful even with its flaws and to accept them all as part of the beauty like when you still love someone despite what bad things they've done.

[Nate]

The world is beautiful even with its flaws I agree, but no, I won't accept the dark and evil things as part of the beauty, or even accept them at all.

[Vio13]

Closetotaku, I took a photography class and my teacher had the same rule about smiling, but the reasoning was very different! It is because smiles are often forced and unnatural in photographs. Inn a portrait you're aiming for an accurate representation, so a neutral expression is best and usually more natural. (Though natural smiles win big points!)
But to the main topic. I can do both, but I like
It when there's a mix in my show. Conflict and happy times too. I do tend to like shows with more sad themes just because often you have to pick a side on the two extremes. I don't like shows with a lot of fluff, so that leaves the emotional ones mostly. But also I like a show to make me feel... Something? I can be indifferent a lot, so a show that manages to bet an emotional response is great! Character death is tricky. You have to care about the character and the death needs to be purposeful, otherwise its a useless trick that detracts from the show.
Sometimes death and such things are necessary in a story because of the message it wants to convey. If nobody died in attack on titan, then the idea that their decisions carry weight and that a lot of people can die based on a wrong choice (or just cuz it's dangerous in general) wouldn't sink in at all or carry weight.
When the message is to trust your friends, then having people die won't support it as well. Now there can be multiple messages and all sorts of depth that leads to the mixing and matching, but generally dark =/= good but neither does happy go lucky. The story, plot, and characters will determine that.

[Kilvakar]

Wow, thanks guys! Lots of deep stuff to think about here. But from what I can tell, basically most of you are saying that when people prefer the darker-toned series, it's because of the relatability of characters going through hardships just as we all do in real life. That's the basic thought I had before posting here, but it's interesting to hear other people's thoughts on the matter.

Me personally, I guess it's obvious I prefer the more light-hearted stuff, but obviously I don't think you're weird if you like the other end of the spectrum. A lot of it has to do with the individual story and setting, of course. But in general I prefer entertainment that brightens up my day and leaves me feeling happy and uplifted. Even though it doesn't always work out like this in real life, I want to see the heroes win, good to triumph, and evil to get what it deserves.