CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

When I posted my Happy Birthday FFVII thread, a lot of people wrote in their favorite FF games. I noticed that 8 was actually quite high on a lot of people's lists. I find this bizarre, as FFVIII was one of the most universally hated Final Fantasy games. I'm curious as to why so many people on this site enjoy it. I will tell you why I didn't enjoy it, as well as some of the things I did, and then you can tell me why you enjoyed it.



First of all, the characters were two-dimensional and boring. Yuffie and Vincent, SECRET characters from the last game, had more character development than most of the characters in 8 (*cough*Quistis*cough*)! The only characters that were even remotely interesting were Squall and Rinoa. Everyone else was boring (Irvine had ONE interesting scene where he couldn't pull the trigger).

Second, no armor? No accessories? No new weapons? Talk about gay...if I want to play a game with no equipment I'll play Wild ARMs 3 which is about 100,000 times better.

Third, where's the magic? It's a Final FANTASY game, not sci-fi! Yeah, it had sorceresses, but that ain't enough. Plus the Draw system blew chunks, and the junctioning magic to stats stunk. "Hmm, should I cast a powerful spell on this guy? My stats will go down if I do!" The characters also have NO individuality. In 7, Aeris always had low strength and high magic stats. In FFVIII, if I use GFs and junctioning magic, I can make Squall a weak magic user and Selphie a magic-weak physical attacker. What incentive do I have to use different characters? They're all the same except for their Limit Breaks!

Speaking of which, Limit Breaks were horrible in that game! Ooh, should I stay near-death and possibly get killed, or cast the Aura spell and make my stats go down?

The computer cheats at cards. No way can it get a Plus or Same on EVERY turn.

No money from monsters! I wanna EARN my money, not take some dumb test that I can memorize the answers to so I can get A-rank immediately the second time I play through the game.

Only three battle commands? Gimme a break! I could outfit someone with the Master Magic, Command, and Summon materias in VII and get practically every command there is! Does it make it "more challenging" or something? It's just irritating to me.

I'd also like optional bosses that require skill not luck. Omega WEAPON? Yeah. Cast Aura on all your characters and hope that he doesn't kill you before you use Holy War, then hope that you get Squall's Lionheart Limit a bunch of times, then hope that you get a turn before he attacks so you can use another Holy War...I like STRATEGY in my optional boss battles, with only a TINY bit of luck, not luck making the whole thing work.

Okay, now here's the stuff I liked about the game. The scene on the Ragnarok where Squall found out the truth about Rinoa was awesome. I loved it. Also, the scene where the monsters fell from the moon to the ground was really kewl.

The chocobo forests were interesting and difficult (some of 'em). I loved 'em.

This one gave you a reason to play cards, since rare cards could be turned into rare items. Not like 9, where there was no reason to play cards other than to get a high "Collector's level."

I liked the junctioning GF thing, just not the junctioning magic. I wish it had been more like Wild ARMs 3. In that each Medium you can invoke makes certain stats go up, for example Grudiev's Medium increases your HP and Defense. I wish the GF's had been like that instead of magic determining your stat increases.

Finally, the story was actually pretty decent. Squall was a jerk at the beginning, but he got better at the end. And I was curious at the whole Laguna thing, what was causing it and how it tied into the story. That was kinda kewl.

So, anyway, I said what I disliked about it, and also what I liked. So can anyone give me insight onto why they liked 8 so much?

I liked it because it was new and different. You didn't need armor at all because you could just make your defense stronger with your magic. I liked the fact that you could just draw and cast magic with no MP. Taking those tests were easy and I like it better than just fighting random battles for a long time just to get the same amount of money. Leveling up was also easy, I found it to go faster than any of the other FF games.

In VII, they dont' really have inviduality in their abilities. I just attached the same materia to everybody, so I had no incentive to use anybody except for Cloud, Yuffie, and Barret. So VIII isn't the only game with that problem.

I found limit breaks more fun. You actually can do something in those, like Zell's Duel, can choose what blue magic Quistis can do, can choose what magic Selphie can pull off, Irvine's limit break and shooting, etc. The only 2 limit breaks I found that were neat were Tifa's (I liked pulling them off) and Clouds's Omnislash.

The characters seemed more realistic in a way. I can easily relate to Squall more than Cloud. Yes, there are spazzes like Zell, hyper people like Selphie, and romantic (I don't know how to describe how he acts, besides saying that he really, really likes girls..) people like Irvine. They're just easier to relate to than the cast of VII....that's all.

Man, I better stop. I'm confusing myself.

I agree, I found the cast of FFVIII to be alot more interesting (and better developed!) than FFVII's characters. I found it hard to sympathize with Cloud at times. And I could never figure out who he was supposed to like. FFVIII, however, doesn't have those problems.

It's true, you lost options in terms of equipment, but you gained a huge level of depth with the GF system. It takes the additive/subtractive aspect of materia to its logical peak. The question is no longer 'Who should get the strong but expensive materia', but 'How do I want to direct my characters?' For example, you can choose to make a strong phys. attack character, or a strong magic-user, or you can try to make a 'middle of the road' character - or one of several other options, depending on how you Junction your magic. Then comes the question of elements. You can focus a character in one element, or two, or even three (if you tweak it just right). Or you can ignore elements and protect against status effects. All of these options are affected deeply by which and how many GF you choose to equip. It's quite possible to beat the game while only ever having Shiva equipped to Squall. Or you can equip five GF to Squall. It's your choice, and the possibilities surpass in depth anything FFVII has to offer.

As far as characters are concerned, I thought Squall was super-cool. I know, other people thought he was irritating. But I really liked his sense of duty, determination, and leadership (although he was a little slow to assume the leader position ). I also thought Rinoa and Laguna were done well.

I want to second what Namu said about Limit Breaks. Instead of a super-powerful attack you get at regular intervals (and usually gets wasted on some low-level random encounter), FFVIII's Limits show up when you need them - and don't leave after just one. You can keep using them. Plus, you get options and interactivity. I love the fact that I can choose when and what Blue Magic to have Quistis learn - and that, through the card game (which was a barrel of fun, btw), I could expand my list of techniques to learn. Also, I loved the fact that Zell's and Squall's Limit Breaks depended on my performance to do well. No more sitting back while Cloud owns everyone by himself.

In short, to answer all of kammerite's rants, in order:

1) I loved the characters. I thought they were developed plenty. In fact, I found the characters to be much cooler and more realistic (and less trite) than FFVII's. Difference of opinion, I guess.

2) Don't need 'em. The GF system provides more depth than the equipment system ever did - especially since you can manipulate characters' strengths. In fact, the GF system (while flawed) was a great idea. It breaks out of the 'Knight/Black Mage/White Mage' rut that every previous Final Fantasy (except the Job System ones) were prey to. You can make a char. whatever you like, and that is a refreshing change.

3) I'll admit, I hated Drawing. But I loved searching for new magic - it sure beats just buying it.
Plus, you can turn the items, cards, and parts you find into Magic - this is definitely a game that rewards (demands!) exploration.
And the characters don't have individuality so you can customize them to your will. See #2 and body of this post.

4) Limit Breaks were sweet. See the body of this post. This might just be another matter of opinion, though.

5) Um, I won most of the time at cards. The computer doesn't cheat, it's just better at seeing possiblities and openings than you are.

6) I didn't always enjoy taking tests, but it added depth to the game. (You are rewarded for exploring and learning more: the more you experiment and explore, the more test questions you can answer without guessing.)
This was a welcome change - you get parts and cards from battling, so it's a good trade-off, I think.

7) Well, I guess more commands is a good thing... but I didn't really miss them. (This could tie in with dependence on GFs and customization - different GFs have different command options.) Another matter of opinion.

8) You got me there. Some of the boss battles did rely too heavily on chance. I don't think it was a game-crippling flaw, however.


So what did I dislike about FFVIII?

I didn't like the fact that, too often, I wasn't sure where to go. (Of course, this happened in FFVII, too, but less often.)
I didn't like the fact that it sometimes took me HOURS to get places. Ok, not hours. But Squall's run speed could be a tad higher, ya know.
I didn't like the bland menus. Not a big deal, really, but why can't I have pretty blue menus like FFVII?
I HATED the fact that I couldn't turn off (or make shorter) Summon sequences. For a game that relies so heavily on Summoned creatures, why do I have to wait five minutes for one to show up? (The Summon sequences looked really, really cool though.)
I didn't like the fact that some of the lines were frankly ridiculous. (A problem in every Final Fantasy ever made, lol.)

But-
I loved the fact that Squall never had to dress up in women's clothing and infiltrate the mansion of a cocky Hugh Hefner-knock off. I loved the fact that you never had to do squats with obviously homosexual gym members in order to win a women's hairpiece that you needed to complete said infiltration. I also loved the fact that there was no Honeybee Inn where you could go through various disturbing 'HP/MP Restored!' sequences.

I like the music. ^_^

Only thing I didn't like...you can make your characters SUPER strong by the end of disc 1 (goes along with not havoin the old fashion level up...you can have 9999 hop at level 10 :S)...and the way you have to use magic to boost your stats?...all the good magic is used up to boost your stats...so you cant use it or youll lose stats in battle...only thing i liked was the battle with Omeaga Weapon...that was fun!!!!!

Gosh, it's been a VERY long time since I've played this one...

I will admit that I have mixed feelings about it. I both enjoyed and hated this game at the same time.

I hated GF/magic system. It seemed like the game made you rely on GF's too much, and they're is no way to turn off the summon sequences. Sure they're cool at first, but once you've seen them a couple HUNDRED times they begin to get stale. And who thought up the idea of the DRAW system? It's officially one of the worst magic systems of all time in an RPG.

The rest of the game, though, I thought was okay. A good game, not great.

I enjoyed Final Fantasy 9 a lot more. (FF9 is my fav of the whole series)

I enjoyed FF VIII since it was a nice departure from the series' norm. For one, the junction system allowed more flexibility, almost like the class systems in FF V, I liked the freedom of choice of making any character strong in magic and another a more lethal attacker.

The visuals were really good, an I thought the bright color tones reflected the games' persona of romance quite nicely. Also, the draw system meant you could obtain magic by sucking it from enemies, there was a huge assortment depending on what enemies you fought --there were plenty of hidden spells. The upgrade system was great because it gave you an extra reason to fight, since needed materials had to be aquired to built the latest weapons in the game.

The music was also really incredible, "Eyes on Me" by Faye Wong was truly a fantastic song that elevated the games' mood and well, that intro really got me pysched for what was about to happen. It also sported the funner version of the card game "Triple Triad", which I played extensively to get more items for weapons and it was just really fun to play (The theme song sure was catchy too).

I think FF VIII was really the last time I enjoyed an FF game so very much, and when I say that I mean I loved every minute of it, went out and drew fan art and gather all kinds of merchandise.

Why did I like FF8? You say the characters were two-dimensional (I think you mean one-dimensional), but I think that the characters had a ton of depth. You said it yourself that Squall evolved. That evolution was something that could not have been pulled off by a shallow character. Squall's emotions resonated throughout the entire story. His fear of being abandoned was a theme that ran through the entire game. This holds true for other characters, except for Zell, perhaps. His only inner problem was that he was something of a crybaby when he was young. Irvine was afraid of being alone (not the same as Squall's being abandoned), Quistis was trying to sort of her feelings for Squall, and so on. The characters in FF8 were far from boring. The story played the puppet master and manipulated each of these characters' emotions in several ways, setting them up for success and then dropping some dramatic failure in their laps (i.e. Squall finding out what had happened to Rinoa). These characters are CERTAINLY not boring.

Second, why does a lack of armor bother you so much? This is supposed to be a more advanced civilization, where the junctioning capabilities of the Guardian Forces make up for people walking around in clodding armor. It wouldn't have made sense to have these people equipping Genji Gloves or Aegis Mail. That would just be stupid and detract from the story.

Third, so what if the incentive to use other characters is in the Limit Breaks? That's reason enough to use different characters. I much prefer Irvine's Pulse Ammo to Selphie's Slots or Quistis' Blue Magic. And as for you not liking the Junction system, well, that's really just a preference. I have nothing to say about that. One thing I do have to say though, is that how on earth is FF7 "fantasy"? It was about as science fiction as you can get. Between Jenova and the cloning and whatnot, why is it more fantasy than FF8?

Fourth, the Limit Breaks were not horrible. It made more sense than having the characters just attack, attack, attack until it built up. A Limit Break is supposed to be a move used in desperation, not the result of building up and then unleashing some unholy assault.

The computer does not cheat at cards. Read the rules more thoroughly, until you get a good grasp on it and you'll be able to see why they get a Same or Plus. I used to say the computer cheated, then after I studied it a little more, I can school the computer in Triple Triad.

Three battle commands is just a preference. I agree there was some stuff I wanted to just tack on, but it did make you plan for each battle more, so I don't have anything to say about that.

Next, exactly how does it make sense that because you kill a monster they drop tons and tons of gil every time? That's just silly, even though that's how it's been for a long time. FF8 tried a new approach by making you a salaried member of SeeD.

So, now that all that has been said, what did I like about FF8?

I really did like the characters. Their interactions were what made it emotionally appealing and the writing was very good. The characters behaved like awkward teenagers, which is what they were, and then they grew up more and more until they were forced to adapt to the crises at hand. Squall was thrust into command and he had to rise to the challenge. For some reason, also, the love story really appealed to me. Maybe I'm some kind of hopeless romantic, but the way it played out across over-the-top consequences and Squall and Rinoa's love was able to survive really appealed to me. Squall would go through the fires of hell for Rinoa and didn't care at all when he found a certain revelation about her, and that was really cool as it played out.

The music was incredible, and that was definitely a high point of the game. The scene where the SeeD hopefuls are engaging in the military test at Dollet, and Squall is riding in the boat and looking out over the sea...the music there was just amazing.

The gameplay stayed fresh and interesting to me throughout the entire game and not once did I feel like the pacing dragged on. It kept the idiotic fetch quests to a minimum so that the player could progress through the story at a more even pace. Junctions appealed to me because it was possible to have a lot of fun with them. It made every character customizable and you could turn them into a powerhouse in everything. You could do the same in FF7, but it wasn't as fulfilling to me to wipe through Sephiroth and turn him into a grease stain or take out Ruby Weapon as it was to stroll onto the Island Closest to Hell and absolutely ravage every monster on it. I liked that a lot.

So, sorry if I sounded a little bit angry in this because that wasn't my intent. I just think it's silly to write FF8 off as a mediocre game because you couldn't get over comparing it to FF7 (which, by the way is an awesome game but I loved FF8 more). The point of each Final Fantasy game is to provide a new and fresh experience and in that, FF8 more than succeeded, IMO.

the fact that enemies level up as you do...

I'd also like optional bosses that require skill not luck. Omega WEAPON? Yeah. Cast Aura on all your characters and hope that he doesn't kill you before you use Holy War, then hope that you get Squall's Lionheart Limit a bunch of times, then hope that you get a turn before he attacks so you can use another Holy War...I like STRATEGY in my optional boss battles, with only a TINY bit of luck, not luck making the whole thing work.

Emerald and Ruby weapon, mostly luck based.
Ozma, luck based.
That dragon in FF5 Shira something or other. Luck based.

All the majorly hard optional bosses are generally luck based, if Emerald Weapon uses Acid Rain, you die. 9999 to all your guys. Bad luck.

Acid rain... do your mean Arie Tam Storm(or how ever its spelled) you can actually reduce the damage taken by that if you equip less materia. I mean I beat Emerld by mimicing Knights of the Round, and to be honest, it was quite boring watching the summon over and over and over again... but then again the thing has so much HP it'd take even longer any other way.

And if you still getting 9999 to all your characters, link the Phonix materia to the Final Attack materia.

Gunblade.

Enough said.

Rai

I agree, I didn't like Final Fantasy 8 as much as 7 (7 is my favourite game, so maybe that doesn't count.) I just found the story kind of... slow? Uninteresting? I never really went "wow!" But I don't hate it, most of it was fun. ^v^

I've decided that I like 8 better than 7 for a couple of reasons that no one else in the world would even think of. One must understand, now, that I play the PC versions of 7 and 8 (as opposed to the PlayStation versions).

First, the language in 8 is greatly toned down over 7; there's plenty of cursing in 7 that I'd like to edit out (and did try once, but that's another story).

Second, 8 is more technically stable than 7. With 7, there have been certain random points in the game in which either it would freeze up or boot me out to Windows. On the other hand, I've never had any problems with 8 at all.

So there you have it -- it isn't just about the music. (Mr. Uematsu does great with the music in both games. ^_^ )

Aaaah! I remember first time I played Final Fantasy 7 was on the computer. It was horrible! All the controls where on the number pad! It was so BAD! I couldn't do anything properly. Which made me make rufus very very mad, to give me a grenade to go blow myself up. (that did not make sense...) It was a very bad adaptation to the computer. (What do you call them? "Ports" I think ? maybe not..)

The music in FFVII for PC was also in MIDI format I believe, the absolute WORST music format invented.

I see a lot of fans of 8, which is kewl. Everyone has their own opinions. In fact, I love Mystery Science Theater 3000, which most people say is the dumbest show they've ever seen. However, I must say these things:

1. The reason you can get to level 99 by the end of Disc 1 is because to ANY level, be it 2 or 100, takes only 1,000 XP. That's it! Try getting to level 99 before the end of Disc 1 in FFVII. It would take you YEARS.

2. I liked how enemies levelled up with you too, so you wouldn't be fighting something in an old area that only gave you like 50 XP and 50 Gil.

3. Monsters dropping Gil doesn't make SENSE? Then how do they drop items? Why is a Gimard going to carry EIGHT FREAKIN' SCREWS?! Where does he keep them? So before you say "Monsters with Gil doesn't make sense," neither does monsters with items.

4. In continuing with my last post, you want something to make SENSE in a fantasy game? So why is it that you can accept the fact that these people can cast magic, can get paid in the middle of nowhere immediately, that animals can talk, that a person can get shot at POINT BLANK RANGE WITH EXPLODING AMMO and still be alive, yet you refuse to believe a monster can carry money?

5. Omega requires luck. I've seen three unique strategies for fighting Ozma in FF9, but every strategy for Omega is "cast Aura use Holy War hope you get Lionheart a lot hope you can use another Holy War before he kills you when it wears off." I don't like relying solely on luck. Maybe if there were a Final Attack option like in 7, I could deal with it.

6. I didn't hate 8 entirely. I liked the music, though not enough to buy the soundtrack like I did for 7 and 9. Plus I liked "Melodies of Life" a bit more than "Eyes On You." But that's just personal opinion. Besides, my most hated FF is Mystic Quest (boo!) and second most hated is 2.

As a reigning FF8 guru, I do not deem you worthy for a response. It wouldn't matter anyway - you don't genuenly seem to want responses. All you do when people do respond is get either judgemental or defensive. If you really want to know what I think, you'll be able to track down the Walkthrough on my personal Website. I'm not holding my breath, though.

wow... 0wnzored.

I thought the music for FFVII kicked FFVIII's music in the pants. It was just great. I still love FFVIII's soundtrack, though. And you can't beat FFVIII's SURROUND SOUND SUPPORT! yeah!! it finally gave my surround system something other than Robotech to chew on

W00t! Go Robotech! Yeah!

Okay, I admit it. Oldphilosopher is right. D'oh. Well, I mean, I never expected to change anyone's mind or anything. I mean, if you've played the game for 900 hours you're not going to read this and suddenly say, "Hey, this sucked!"

I just thought I'd put up what I thought of the game, though I did get a little more judgemental than I should've. I think defending your point of view is natural, though, so I don't make any excuses for that, I mean after all everyone else did rush to 8's defense when I posted this. Which is kewl. Except oldphilosopher, 'cuz he ain't no hypocrite. Sir, I'd tip my hat to you, but I haven't got a hat (bum badum badum bum bum). It's an old Looney Tunes cartoon. Ask your parents if you don't know.

Well, I did get my answer at least. By the way, I agree. Seven was overrated. In fact it's fourth on my list of fave FF games. But Yuffie still rocks.

Now I must go find another popular game that I hated to post about...*eyes light up* Of course! SaGa Frontier!

Finally,

LONG LIVE TERRA SHADOW AND MOG THE KEWLEST FF CHARACTERS EVER!

kaemmerite wrote:The music in FFVII for PC was also in MIDI format I believe, the absolute WORST music format invented.

MIDI is only as bad as the Instruments(wavetable) that are used to play the MIDI with(well that and if the people can't compose). For example, the Playstation versions of FF7, FF8, FF9, and Chrono Cross all use MIDI for their music, FF7's music sounded kinda synthy because the wave table they used wasn't too good, but FF8, FF9, and Chrono Cross had wonderful sounded music. And no the music from those games isn't CD-Music, you can prove this by talking the disc out while the music is still going, if it was CD-Audio the music would stop, but if its MIDI the music would continue to be playing.