CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I've really not been doing great these last couple of months. Overall I just felt stressed, tired, listless, burned out, angry, sad, depressed, basically a lot of negative stuff. I think my stressful job is the no. 1 cause for it, along with all the stress that's going on at home with my mom. It's been so bad that I've withdrawn from stuff I like to do, as well as my friends. I basically just work, go home, work, go home...

A month ago a friend of mine (who's a dear Christian friend I've known for years) recommended I take ProZen. During that week I saw an advertisement in a local magazine for it, and, because my friend vouched for it's natural qualities (my friend is really into natural stuff, hates refined, artificial foods/medicine) I decided to give it a go (it's available without a prescription over in the pharmacies over here in South Africa).

So anyway, during my first 2 weeks I didn't really notice anything, but this last week things have been going MUCH better. I feel much more relaxed at work/home, I don't wake up anymore feeling tired/listless/with headaches and people who know me says I seem happier and more positive in general.

My only concern is: Am I to be dependent upon these pills for the rest of my life for my well-being? Will I, as soon as I go off them, revert back to my negative, grumpy, stressful self? I can't imagine that I have to live the rest of my life like this. I mean, I haven't felt as good as I do now in MONTHS, so I don't want to go back to being the person I've was then, but, I also don't want to have my happiness depend upon medication.

Advice? Help? Please? Oh, and here's a link to the medication I'm taking in case you're interested in reading up on it and giving your 2 cents (click on the PRODUCT DESCRIPTION link, sorry, I don't know how to directly link to that):

http://www.valueaddedlife.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=19

Thanks

Whatever is in those pills, it's providing something that causes your body to relax. It does sound like the normal workings for medicine- taking a while to kick in before starting- but no one can tell you what the effects would be if you went off of it. THat's different from person to person.

I can't see the ingredient list, so I can't say if there's something off about it. But I should warn you that as a nutritional supplement, it's not regulated by the FDA, and doesn't have the proper testing for dosages and contents that normal medicines would- always something that makes me wary.

Basically, the best recipe for teating stress is usually some sort of therapy mixed with some sort of medication if therapy isn't enough. There are some natural ways to relieve stress, such as excercize, which has been medically proven to relieve stress time after time. It might be a good time to start some sort of routine. And if your job is causing that much stress like I read in the other thread- which is unbelievably unhealthy- I would recommend looking for another job. But definitely also look for counseling.

This has the potential to turn into "Pills are bad and you should only depend on God!" (which reeks of faith healing to me, and I'm not fond of that at all).

However, here's what we were taught in my psych class in college. I'm obviously no expert on the subject (having only taken two semesters of it), but one thing the professor drilled into our heads repeatedly was that medicine alone isn't very helpful. You need to take medicine and also undergo counseling.

That said, I have a mother who IS dependent on medicine to function properly, which is why the people who are against medicine really annoy me, because I have been around my mother when she has forgotten to take her medication or couldn't get the prescription refilled. She's a completely different person almost, suicidal and can't even talk for more than a few words before breaking down into tears. It's heartbreaking to see her in that state, and her medication is what keeps her from being like that all the time since my father died.

So I have more of a dog in this fight than most people who decry modern medicine do, which is why I tend to get a little angry at them when they say those things.

But anyway, yeah...you probably should receive counseling along with your medication (my mom does too). A psychiatrist would be the most helpful (as they're trained and schooled in counseling), but if you really are opposed to that (or can't afford it) a pastor would make a decent alternative, so long as he/she is willing to schedule routine visits with you and has received training in the area (counseling may be a part of seminary, though it wouldn't be as in depth as a psychiatrist's training, it's better than nothing).

Finally, there's nothing wrong with being dependent on medicine, even if you are. Medicine is used to make people better, that's its job. Some people have to take medicine their whole lives for physical disease...my grandmother for example has to take medication for her heart, she's been taking it for about 20 years, and if she stopped she'd probably die or end up in the hospital at least. Her life is dependent on the medicine. And mental illness is another form of illness, so it stands to reason you might have to take these for the rest of your life...which you shouldn't feel ashamed of. The only problem might be in the cost, of course, though you don't live in the United States so you might be better off than we would be in that regard (but not to start a debate about that either).

Man I'm really rambling today huh? I'm sorry.

EDIT: Now that I read Atria's post, I would have the same concerns. Again, you live in South Africa, so obviously you don't have the FDA (but you might have an equivalent I suppose?) but not having any regulatory body research the effects/dosage of the stuff in question isn't really a good thing. I'm not saying you should stop taking it, or anything, that's beyond my area of expertise again, but it might want to be something to take into consideration, or at least look a bit deeper into.

If taking the medication allows you to relax and focus more on daily activities and function like (for lack of a better term) the average individual, then I don't see the harm in taking it for long periods of time, or even life.

I'm with Nate. Some people really do require medication to function in their daily life, so those who have the "just get over it" attitude really should just zip it. One of my close friends takes a medication for anxiety. He's tried to wean himself off of it (because of the cost), but it only makes things more difficult.

I also agree with Nate that you should pair the medication with regular counseling sessions, especially with a counselor who can monitor your medication intake and determine if the dose should be upped or lowered (or however they handle these kinds of things in South Africa).

Praying, dude!

Thank you all for the responses so far. I have actually, for the last 6 months or so, been thinking of getting another job. Then I get really depro, because I feel I am being ungrateful. I live in a country where around 40+% of the population is jobless, so it's not just as simple as up and quitting and finding the next best thing. The thing is, all 3 of my last jobs I didn't find myself. I was kindof "led" to them by other means (usually friends), so I believe God had a helping hand in that. I feel, until I get some kind of hint to move on, I shouldn't (what makes matters worse I live at home with my mom, who is financially struggling at the moment and I can NOT be jobless at this time).

But like I said, this last week I've felt much better. I actually haven't dreaded going to work any morning last week (something I used to do constantly in the last couple of months) and I actually SMILE more too (something I've had to force myself to do the last while). So, until I DO get another, less stressful job, I'll be continuing with the medication.

Also, a couple of months back I went to see a Christian therapist. He was helpful, but the thing is I cannot afford his hourly rates (he was nice enough to give me two sessions for free, but I cannot in good conscience try and get more free sessions out of him). I'll keep my eyes and ears open for someone else.

Thanks again

Sometimes if they have interns, the interns will charge at a lower rate. Also, some places (at least back in CA) will charge at a discounted rate for those with low income. It's worth a shot.

If you need medicine, you need medicine. It doesn't make you a lesser person. Sometimes the "suck it up and get over it" approach just doesn't work.

If this medication actually makes you feel more like yourself, then I don't think there's anything wrong with depending on it, unless it is too expensive. Generally speaking, it's best to get prescriptions for medicine because then your insurance might pay for it. Paying for medicine out of your pocket is a bit costlier. But if you can afford it and it improves the quality of your life, then I say go ahead.

However, you should perhaps spend a little more time verifying that the medication does, in fact, work. The two-week period it took to take effect makes me a little bit suspicious. Although some antidepressants do sometimes take that long to take effect, Prozen claims to be derived from the calming chemical in green tea, which I would think takes effect much quicker. So, I would test it for a while longer before committing to shell out a lot of money for it. Take a little more time to see if it actually helps you relax or if it's just a fluke. Also spend a few weeks off of it to see if you go back to being stressed out. Unfortunately, there's no way to placebo-test yourself. But if after some testing it does seem to help you and you can afford it, then I say go ahead.

If it's based on a chemical in green tea, then drinking straight green tea might be cheaper and would probably work. It's worth trying out.

Midori (post: 1470974) wrote:However, you should perhaps spend a little more time verifying that the medication does, in fact, work. The two-week period it took to take effect makes me a little bit suspicious. Although some antidepressants do sometimes take that long to take effect, Prozen claims to be derived from the calming chemical in green tea, which I would think takes effect much quicker. So, I would test it for a while longer before committing to shell out a lot of money for it. Take a little more time to see if it actually helps you relax or if it's just a fluke. Also spend a few weeks off of it to see if you go back to being stressed out. Unfortunately, there's no way to placebo-test yourself. But if after some testing it does seem to help you and you can afford it, then I say go ahead.

Uh, yeah what he said, Except instead of going cold-turkey all at once try cutting back to half dosage, that should be enough to see if you start to backslide.

Just my two cents.

praying. you might want to talk to shooraijin for medical advice

*poof*

For the record, SSRIs in general, such as Prozac, Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, etc., usually take at least two weeks for any effect, and up to six weeks for the full effect of a particular dose.

Also, although SSRIs are all presumably part of the same pharmacologic class, people can react significantly differently. For example, a person that did not do well with Paxil may do better with Zoloft.

There are other choices, too, but the SSRIs have the best safety profile and are the most widely available. Wellbutrin is a good choice for men particularly; it has less unwanted side effects, but can't be used with disorders such as bulimia. BuSpar is a unique choice for antianxiety and can be very helpful. SNRIs such as Cymbalta may have specific benefit under certain circumstances, but may be expensive. Effexor can be particularly valuable for dysthymia and other mixed emotional disorders, but is difficult to stop taking. Older antidepressants need to be closely monitored.

You should not accept this as specific advice for your situation -- that should come either from a psychiatrist (MD) or a licensed therapist or PsyD. I will tell you, however, the general rules that I tell my own patients:

- The need for medication does not indicate personal weakness. Rather, the fact you recognize you are unable to handle the situation, whether due to a chemical imbalance or an inability to properly process your emotions, actually represents personal maturity.

- If you have ever tried to commit suicide (not just thinking about it, but actually tried), you have a not insignificant chance of trying again, and this should strongly affect your decision to remain on treatment.

- Hallucinations, or periods of not requiring sleep (not insomnia: simply not needing it) or extremely excessive behaviour could be signs of mania or psychosis, and the treatment for these situations is very different. Any of these symptoms should be immediately reported to a physician or psychiatrist MD.

- For patients who are going through a rough patch that they think is temporary, it's not unreasonable to try a period of a few months (I'd recommend a minimum of three, preferably six -- remember that dose adjustments are slow) on medication, taper off, and see where you are. If you feel like you are better able to handle the situation, then people have bad times, and if this got you through it then that's worth it. If you feel that you are not, there is no shame in saying so.

- Antidepressants/anxiolytics should not cause you to "not feel yourself" or "not feel anything." If they do that, then they are failing. At best, they should simply blunt the highs and the lows. You will still have highs and lows, but you will not feel them as intensely, and this should enable you to deal with them more effectively. You should only be on the lowest dose of medication necessary to enable this. That dose will vary from person to person.

About the only medications I strongly discourage are the benzodiazepine tranquilizer class, like Valium, Ativan and Xanax. These medications have a significant and insidious risk for addiction and abuse, and unlike the other medications, people really have a tendency to "live at the bottom of a bottle" with them because it's too easy to simply pop a Xanax when your day sucks. Don't do this.

Ask me specific questions if you like, but remember that psychiatry is particularly an individual issue, and nothing I say here countermands what your regular treating physician or psychiatrist MD says.

I'm not a medical expert here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but Shoo, are you by chance confusing ProZen for Prozac? Cause I don't think ProZen is an SSRI... I'm not even sure what it is. XD Or are you just saying that in case he begins treatment and medication?

I will say that your experiences may differ depending on what type of professional counselor you seek. They all hold different models of practice. I don't know how mental health licensure works in South Africa, but I know in the States that seeing Licensed Mental Health Counselor (LMHC) will be significantly different than seeing an M.D. Psychiatrist. And perhaps to a degree a Psy.D or someone with a Ph.D in Counseling Psychology will offer you help which may be a bit more "in-between".

It may be best for you to research on these if you do wish to seek professional counseling. It's you, after all, that will be the primary individual working towards your own healing. =)

I'm sure that Shoo can definitely speak with more authority on a medical model, though. But I do plan on (as in the next two-to-four years) seeking licensure to be an LMHC and then eventually Counselor Ed, so I uh... maybe hold some expertise? XD

Ah, thanks for that. Yes, ProZen != Prozac. The rest of it stands, of course.

[Psychology Today]

Anthropologists have often pointed out that hunter-gatherers' work is skill-intensive but not labor-intensive. Research studies suggest that hunter-gatherers' work somewhere between 20 and 40 hours a week, on average, depending on just what you count as work. Moreover, they do not work according to the clock; they work when the time is ripe for the work to be done and when they feel like it. There is ample time in hunter-gatherers' lives for leisure activities, including games of many sorts, playful religious ceremonies, making and playing musical instruments, singing, dancing, traveling to other bands to visit friends and relatives, gossiping, and just lying around and relaxing. The life of the typical hunter-gatherer looks a lot like your life and mine when we are on vacation at a camp with friends.

It's amazing when you think about it. During the 10,000 years since the onset of agriculture and then industry, we have developed countless laborsaving devices, but we haven't reduced our labor. Today, most people spend more time working than did hunter-gatherers, and our work, on average, is less playful.

Ungrateful? Really?

Depressed? I wonder why?

If the meds work - take them. But don't stop there, find the answers to your depression as well and change to a more healthy lifestyle. So much as people say you can't survive without a job, you should just as well realize that you can't survive forever with a severe depression. To keep that 40% from putting bullets in their heads, the politicians in your nation must be handing out money hand over fist to the unemployed and they'll have to fund it with your taxes. Remember the phrase from communist workers in Russia:



Check out what you can get if unemployed and start looking for a job that will treat you better. Wealth is optional, survival is necessary - I think your subconscious has already told you you only have one choice, so the more you drag your feet, the worse it is.

P.S. Now you know why I support Tyler Durdern

Uh. We're not going further in that vein, thanks.

Pascal's quote in (post: 1471193) wrote:playful religious ceremonies,

Aren't those mutually exclusive adjectives?

I must say, some of the replies so far have been, interesting. I read a lot of people say I should cut back on the dosage. I am actually at the moment on the lowest dosage you should take (one capsule, 3 times a day after a meal instead of two capsules, 3 times a day after a meal). I DID actually start out with 2 at a time, but it made me feel TOO much relaxed, so I cut back. Also, on the weekends, when I'm not working, I sometimes cut back to maybe just one or two capsules a day.

Another thing I've noticed is I tend to be rather impulsive and childish sometimes regarding my words and actions. Since starting with these capsules I feel I can control what I do and say better, not just blurting something out or doing something without thinking.

All I'm gonna say is I'm glad ur feeling better after 1 med. I'm taking a lot more than you. -_-;

I'm basically going to repeat what everyone else has said and tell you that if it's working then great, I'm glad to hear it, but that you do also need to seek some kind of professional counseling about what you're going through.

There is nothing wrong with being dependent on a medication for ones well-being. I personally suffer from migraines and I was on Topamax for a number of months before I lost my previous job. Now that I'm employed again and my insurance has finally kicked in I plan on going back on it. Seeking help and being willing to accept that you can't get over everything by just sucking it up is a sign of being mature and there is no shame in taking medicine.