Prayer: Irrational Thinking...

[Allegro]

Hi guys.

Ever since I started my walk with the Lord, I have somehow developed an irrational mindset among certain people. I am not specifically talking about those who aren't Christian, but towards those who intentionally do sinful things and think it's the right or good thing to do. It's made increasingly anti-social (among many people in public) and is causing me to hate those who simply are among the misguided. While I've tried to simply ignore and tell off the sins of some people, it's made me more pessimistic about society in general and that I view the world in a somewhat negative light.

Not only that, but I tend to judge people prematurely because of this mindset.

I guess my foundations were a little shaky when I first started to become a Christian, since this mindset just crept up to me out of nowhere. Before I never such an issue, but now it's made me a little depressed.

This is a somewhat complicated issue for me and just describing it in words isn't enough. But I will definately need prayer as this is something I've been stuggling with for a long time; some kind of "wake-up" call maybe to change my perceptions on these things...

[meboeck]

I'm sure you know this, but just because you hate the sin doesn't mean it's ok to hate the person. Considering the way you stated your request, it does seem like you understand that. I will pray that you would be able to look at people through God's eyes of love and not through your own eyes. It can be very hard sometimes, but if you ask, God will help you change your mindset.

[Allegro]

Thank you. Yes, I know in my mind that I shouldn't hate people because of sin. I guess what I meant to say in my initial posting was that I often feel uncomfortable around such people and that the feeling usually compromises my interactions among them. As an example, anybody who I encouter who is homosexual, I think that I should steer clear away from them and shunt them because of a lifestyle they consider to be rational and normal for everyone. In other words, I am usually affected by their pride of knowing their sin is acceptable.

But I guess this is somewhat an indication of me still growing as a Christian.

[Puritan]

I will pray for you. As a piece of advice, I would recommend focusing on your sinfulness when you become caught up in the sinfulness of others. I have the same trouble myself at times, and I find that it is easy to look down on those who purposefully sin if you become too caught up in thinking about their sinfulness. However, our sight should be focused inward, at the fact that we as Christians are terrible sinners, not outward at the actions of others. I sin daily, knowing that my sins are an affront to God and an evil act against the one who saved me from my sins. I am daily forgiven of sins, any of which would condemn me in the sight of God because He can accept nothing impure, so who am I to hate others who sin? I find that, for me, anger about the sins of others often shows that I am succumbing to the sin of pride, for apart from the grace of God I am no better than they are. When I remember that I am as guilty as they are, I find it easier to love them and try to reach out to them, because I remember that they are as needful of the love of God as I am. I hope I don't sound like I am condemning you, for I am as guilty of this as you are, but I find that remembering this helps me immensely.

[GhostontheNet]

While I've tried to simply ignore and tell off the sins of some people, it's made me more pessimistic about society in general and that I view the world in a somewhat negative light.

A cynical perspective taken to society and the world can be useful to offset the lies and corruption/corrosion/decadence (all these words are the equivalent of "In a state of rot", a perversion of true form) fed to us by society, best instead filtered through hardcore critical inquiry. Even full-out pessimism can be useful to offset unrealistic expectations - and this I say holding to the postmillennialist school of theology with it's with it's vision of a bright future before Christ's return. When one realizes the full effect all of this sin is having upon the world and the self, it will indeed cause one grief that so many people don't care, that they will spend their lives forging Hell, and some of them will indeed find their desired fate there. "The mind is it's own place And as I count it Better to reign in Hell Than to serve in Heav'n" says John Milton's satan in Paradise Lost. This philosophy is agreed to by our wordly wisemen, who lie and say that the satan is the hero of Milton's story as an excuse for their dehumanized attitudes. Remember, the image of God is in all men, but as I and Bishop N.T. Wright see it, can be corroded - that is to live in a compact with death by inflicting damage upon everything around one including themselves by failure to conform with the ways of the omniscient all-wise creator God. And if the essence of man is the image of God, to corrode that is to become progressively less human - don't believe me? Than why is it that dictators when having so much power to enforce their most twisted wills and desires buried inside everyone, with the powers to enforce hatred and selfishness are called "monsters"? I tend to be convinced that God allows and establishes the occasional dictator to rise to power as a national advertisement for the Hell they will create when the aren't afraid of getting their heads chopped off in their newfound deathless existences. If the virus of sin is that men desire to become gods so that they could turn the very good creation inwards upon themselves in selfishness rather than love, to the point that it was nessecary that they we lose our bodies after a lifespan to preserve the order of the world, than the antidote is that God becomes the men as they themselves are also themselves, in truer form than ever before with corruption gone - the seed of the Holy Spirit of God is already planted within us in quiet anticipation. But this can antidote of Christ's blood and God's spirit can only be conferred upon consent for it to be given, for others prefer the sickness to the cure.

So how does this relate to the present issue? Well, I will cite as an example from a recent dialogue I had with a transexual man who was a white-hat hacker who would be a nuissance to weapons manufacturers on the grounds of the blood they contribute to shed. We discussed some of the wonderfully terrible methods of slaughtering people is masses that have been created - if only we were such experts in healing as we are in hurting. So when the dialogue turned to religion in general and Hell and how supposedly most religions consider him to be the devil simply for this. What I had done in response was to comment that this blew the this one thing in particular out of proportion, but that there is evil within him and he knows it and admits it. So I tried to briefly explain this conception of people forging Hell, made in the example of dictators and vengeance and hate and selfishness - no need for temperature and God-inflicted torture, they would prefer to do these things to each other of their own accord. And in the end, it is the turning the things in his heart that he had manifest in his transexual identidy inwards upon himself in his actions that is the sin. It is fair game to reject enculturated gender values where the traits one assumes instead of others are also entirely valid and useful, these are the traditions of men and not of God, contradictory from one place to the next as anthropology reveals. It is not alright to forsake the marriage tri-covenant and alliance between man, woman and God for which he created sex as it is - "Eunuchs for the kingdom of God".

[Allegro]

I hope I don't sound like I am condemning you, for I am as guilty of this as you are, but I find that remembering this helps me immensely.

None taken. Without a doubt the problem I have relies on the very things that you have mentioned. When I started getting into Christianity, very rarely have I really looked upon my own sins as a reflection of other people. For some reason, it just never registered to me that I am still among those who are sinners, and that I too need to constantly seek the Lord for assistance in my life.

When one realizes the full effect all of this sin is having upon the world and the self, it will indeed cause one grief that so many people don't care, that they will spend their lives forging Hell, and some of them will indeed find their desired fate there. "

GhostntheNet: I applaud your response as it shows you are indeed knowledgeable and well-versed in the theological area, which is something I lack as a newly born Christian. Realizing that society as a whole doesn't hold the Lord in good terms, I agree with you that man is able to forge their own Hell. It is something I see in the news and media everyday, as well as everytime I walk out of the house, drive, or go to work. Everybody is held into sin like Puritan mentioned, and that many people on this planet would rather choose to live among sin rather than against it. There is no denying the premises that you stated in your posting.

However, the bulk of my pessimism (although perhaps I wasn't clear in the opening post) lies in my denial of knowing that each individual has the potential to change their state of sin. Rather than to face that fact in my everyday life, it's caused me to even question people I have never even met, assuming that the next person I'll meet is a casual sinner and not worthy of speaking to, or debating with. Surely you do realize that man, while fallible, has the potential at one point in his life to look sin in the eye and turn away from it. This is something that I have not considered early on as a Christian, and I still manage to hold some fragments of that mindset to heart. In one way it's pride and in another the inability to look at my own sins and reflect it upon other people. It's also compromised my well-being as a functional asset of our Lord, simply turning away from another person's sins, rather than to challenge them.

[GhostontheNet]

However, the bulk of my pessimism (although perhaps I wasn't clear in the opening post) lies in my denial of knowing that each individual has the potential to change their state of sin. Rather than to face that fact in my everyday life, it's caused me to even question people I have never even met, assuming that the next person I'll meet is a casual sinner and not worthy of speaking to, or debating with. Surely you do realize that man, while fallible, has the potential at one point in his life to look sin in the eye and turn away from it. This is something that I have not considered early on as a Christian, and I still manage to hold some fragments of that mindset to heart. In one way it's pride and in another the inability to look at my own sins and reflect it upon other people. It's also compromised my well-being as a functional asset of our Lord, simply turning away from another person's sins, rather than to challenge them.

I thank you for your respect. More to the present topic though, that sort of pessimism tends to be best countered with experience - you would be surprised at the ways people can change. I don't tend to spend as much time at Theology Web as I could, taking long breaks between going there, but one advantage of this is being stupified by the people who had ended up becoming Christians that I would not have imagined becoming so. You, my friend, are a bondservant of Christ who gave His all, who associated with the scum of the earth to the point of tarnishing His reputation in the eyes of men and not God. In following suite, you must come to realize that there is nobody in the world who is unworthy of being spoken to. However, I would advise against constantly picking fights with people, saving comments for when it is truly important, and this in gentleness, peace, and wisdom.

[Puritan]

However, the bulk of my pessimism (although perhaps I wasn't clear in the opening post) lies in my denial of knowing that each individual has the potential to change their state of sin.

Part of your problem is that you are right, people do not have the potential to change their state of sin. We cannot save ourselves, and it is easier to see that in some people than others. However, God is more than capable of saving anyone, no matter how bad they are, and that is why we shouldn't give up on people. Remembering your own sin, and your inability to save yourself from it, can help you realize that no one is unworthy of being treated with love and kindness because God did not consider you unworthy of his love and his salvation when you were in the depths of your rebellion against Him. If you can keep in mind that God can save any sinner and that God loved you when you were opposed to him, you will probably find it much easier not to look down on anyone because God can make any one of them righteous. You cannot give up on any of them because you think that they will not be saved, because God is capable of doing more than you can imagine in their lives.

[Allegro]

In following suite, you must come to realize that there is nobody in the world who is unworthy of being spoken to. However, I would advise against constantly picking fights with people, saving comments for when it is truly important, and this in gentleness, peace, and wisdom.

Of course, I would never imagine trying to pick out constant fights against people. It's just that I have often refused to respond to discourse when a particular situation deems it rational to do so (such as when one is attempting to physically\emotionally harm one or him\herself). Again, my own skewed perspecitve on the sins of people has made me lax in such situations.

If you can keep in mind that God can save any sinner and that God loved you when you were opposed to him, you will probably find it much easier not to look down on anyone because God can make any one of them righteous.

This is definately something I never really focused on as I started to become a Christian, but I now find it to be a powerfully defining message. I wholeheartledy agree and will definately practice knowing this in my life.

Thank you all for your input and prayers of my situation. I can already sense the Lord working through me from these discussions, although it will certainly take some time for me to fully change my attitude towards people in general. But the more I look at it from the "looking at you own sins before others" perspective, the more I can grasp what God wants me to do as far as finding all people to be in the exact same mortal position as I am.

I guess in my case, it goes to show that when you become as a Christian, it is necessary to look at things rationally from God's point of view and not your own. I've learned now that such a mentality of the latter has been the root of my problems all along.

[Ryupower]

Think about it: they're hethens, they need to get saved.
You know, they're not saved and going to hell anyways, might as well wnjoy themselves... what says it's wrong? ( exactly, the Bible, and they don't know it. )

So I will just pray that you get used to it and learn to handle it. But you can help G-d by ministering and praying for them, so that they will get convicted of their sin..